Uppers

[SUPERSTAR]

Superstar your statement about only blaming the user is so stupid I have to give you this analogy: A man catches the AIDS virus after having unprotected sex. The man later dies from the AIDS virus. It was the mains fault for catching the virus, and it was the virus that killed him. After he caught the AIDS virus, what happened to him after that was out of his control. You cannot blame him for the effects of the AIDS virus, only contracting it. Therefore it is someone's fault for trying an addictive drug, and when they do become addicted it is the same thing as a disease, because not only are they psychologically dependent on it, they become physically dependent, because their own chemical makeup has been changed to allow the drug to bond itself. When that bond is weakened, i.e. when they run out of the drug or havent taken any for a few hours, they experience withdrawal, which is a living hell, and they always have to go back to the drug.

Addiction is a disease, and SUPERSTAR, just because I understand the effects of the drug socially doesn't mean that's all I know about it. I am a full time college student and for the past four semesters I have taken Addiction Studies courses as part of my requirement for a job when I get my bachelors degree.

Your not wowing me with your smarts, by any means. College student or not.
Your analogy needs modification for what you say to have any merit.
IF, a man contracted HIV, and it was say....an HIV that only stayed in the body for 6 hours, and that man, when HIV ran out of his system, actively pursued getting his hands on some more HIV, to put back into his system. You then have something which can be compared to meth.
If that man who actively wanted to have HIV in his body eventually died, HE DESERVED IT, AND DID IT TO HIMSELF!

In todays time, people like to label everything a disease (even addiction), which makes it so much easier for people, in that they don't have to be responsible or accept any blame for their actions. Using that terminology lets them off the hook, which is a complete copout to me

No one takes meth one time, and their life goes down the toilet because of that one specific time. It takes lots of times. Times where they had to run out and get some more to take, and before they became complete burnedout junkies, they had a mind that they could make decisions with, that could have opted to NOT use meth again. but no, the user CHOSE to go get some meth, and THAT'S why his life was destroyed.

If the man contracted HIV during the time that nothing was known about it, and no one knew how it was transmitted, no one can blame him. If he was a modern day man, and we can assume that he knew all the risks involved, and he decided to take a shot and ended up with HIV, It's HIS fault. I have no mercy for him whatsoever.
If they had commercials on tv, where some super happy lady said..."TAKE SOME METH IN THE MORNING WITH YOUR MILK, AND YOU'LL HAVE A SPLENDID REFRESHING DAY! NOT ONLY DOES METH MAKE YOUR DAY BEAUTIFUL, BUT IT ALSO DOES WONDERS FOR YOUR COMPLEXION, TRY SOME METH TODAY!"(and they showed the average american family all taking meth at breakfast, and being happy) and someone got hooked as a result of that, yes, they were misled, and i would feel sorry for them.
BUt....there are no commercials like that, and i'm pretty sure that the majority of the world who knows about meth, knows that it is dangerous, and that you really shouldn't mess with it.
If there is some idiot that decided that he's the man, and he can handle it, and he ends up getting hooked. It's his fault.

 

[no-sho]

Leaving all personal emotions out, I love an intelligent conversation with a little flavor thrown in the debate!!!!

no-sho

 

[TATE]

I certainly don't feel like a loser and perhaps you should try not to think of me as one either based on my personal choices for myself.

John

It's just such a bad personal choice, I really can't view it any other way. I certainly wouldn't value somebody's judgement, that's for sure.

Chris

 

[LastTwo]

Your not wowing me with your smarts, by any means. College student or not.
Your analogy needs modification for what you say to have any merit.
IF, a man contracted HIV, and it was say....an HIV that only stayed in the body for 6 hours, and that man, when HIV ran out of his system, actively pursued getting his hands on some more HIV, to put back into his system. You then have something which can be compared to meth.
If that man who actively wanted to have HIV in his body eventually died, HE DESERVED IT, AND DID IT TO HIMSELF!

In todays time, people like to label everything a disease (even addiction), which makes it so much easier for people, in that they don't have to be responsible or accept any blame for their actions. Using that terminology lets them off the hook, which is a complete copout to me

No one takes meth one time, and their life goes down the toilet because of that one specific time. It takes lots of times. Times where they had to run out and get some more to take, and before they became complete burnedout junkies, they had a mind that they could make decisions with, that could have opted to NOT use meth again. but no, the user CHOSE to go get some meth, and THAT'S why his life was destroyed.

If the man contracted HIV during the time that nothing was known about it, and no one knew how it was transmitted, no one can blame him. If he was a modern day man, and we can assume that he knew all the risks involved, and he decided to take a shot and ended up with HIV, It's HIS fault. I have no mercy for him whatsoever.
If they had commercials on tv, where some super happy lady said..."TAKE SOME METH IN THE MORNING WITH YOUR MILK, AND YOU'LL HAVE A SPLENDID REFRESHING DAY! NOT ONLY DOES METH MAKE YOUR DAY BEAUTIFUL, BUT IT ALSO DOES WONDERS FOR YOUR COMPLEXION, TRY SOME METH TODAY!"(and they showed the average american family all taking meth at breakfast, and being happy) and someone got hooked as a result of that, yes, they were misled, and i would feel sorry for them.
BUt....there are no commercials like that, and i'm pretty sure that the majority of the world who knows about meth, knows that it is dangerous, and that you really shouldn't mess with it.
If there is some idiot that decided that he's the man, and he can handle it, and he ends up getting hooked. It's his fault.

a) Notice I explained withdrawal symptoms and how they are unbearable for the addict. Addicts rarely can just quit cold turkey, they need serious help to get off the drugs.

b)You just admitted meth is dangerous and people shouldn't mess with it. That is what I've been saying throughout this debate.

c)Like I said, it is the users fault for trying the drug and getting addicted, but once they become addicted they really have no control over themselves. The addiction becomes more like a disease.

d)what is your point!?

 

[LastTwo]

And please, everyone, stop arguing about prescription pills that are uppers. They are not the same as meth on the street that can be snorted, injected, and smoked. Street meth is much more potent and much more dangerous. I already explained early in this thread that I am NOT talking about prescription uppers of any kind, only street drugs, and three or four different people keep bringing them up. They are irrelevent to the subject.

 

[LastTwo]

People self-medicate all the time in various ways for various reasons. To label the ones who do it "illegally" as losers is kind of short-sighted in my opinion.

I guarantee you that if someone close to you had some kind of illness where they needed some kind of drug that wasn't available to them by prescription then you would do anything to get it and wouldn't think of yourself or them as losers.

OH MY GOD. WILL YOU PEOPLE PLEASE READ THE WHOLE THREAD. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT WEED. TATE IS OBVIOUSLY TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO USE HARD DRUGS LIKE SPEED, COKE, HEROIN, ETC.

There is no illness that will make someone need speed, coke, heroin, or pcp.

 

[LastTwo]

Jeff Livingston

Jeff here is a recap of our arguments with each other in this whole thread:

Jeff: Ocassional use of speed is ok

Me: Speed is bad and people should stay away from it, I am angry because young people read this board and you might be giving them the wrong impression. What an asshole

Jeff: (soft music starts playing) I advocate knowledge, liberty, freedom, and justice for all. There is no meth epidemic, its all lies. Heroin is not that bad of a drug either, here just read a quote from this doctor

me: (gives examples and facts about the effects of meth, heroin, etc.) Now you are saying that there is no meth epidemic, and heroin addiction is nothing special? (concerned again about the impression jeff might be giving to young viewers) you are probably a user to defend meth to such an extent

Jeff: I refuted everything you said and provided you with facts (even though his "facts" were one doctor saying he would rather his son be a heroin addict than an alcoholic, and another guy saying the meth epidemic is nothing to be concerned about- HELLO, THOSE ARE OPINIONS DIPSHIT LOL)

me: I am angry with you because you are defending the use of meth

you: I am not defending the use of meth! I am defending knowledge, freedom, liberty, and justice for all (music starts playing again). All you say are lies! Lies I tell you!

me: (confused) But I thought you were defending the occasional use of meth

you: blah blah blah more freedom and liberty stuff.

me: totally confused

KEEP IT UP JEFF YOU'RE DOING A GREAT JOB!

 

[JrockJustin]

Gotta love it...but not really...

Don't you love how we are trying to improve the pool players image and people are taking drugs to enhance their performance? We are already fighting an up-hill battle, let's not hinder our public image even more! Very simple: Don't do drugs

 

[chefjeff]

Jeff here is a recap of our arguments with each other in this whole thread:

Jeff: Ocassional use of speed is ok

Me: Speed is bad and people should stay away from it, I am angry because young people read this board and you might be giving them the wrong impression. What an asshole

Jeff: (soft music starts playing) I advocate knowledge, liberty, freedom, and justice for all. There is no meth epidemic, its all lies. Heroin is not that bad of a drug either, here just read a quote from this doctor

me: (gives examples and facts about the effects of meth, heroin, etc.) Now you are saying that there is no meth epidemic, and heroin addiction is nothing special? (concerned again about the impression jeff might be giving to young viewers) you are probably a user to defend meth to such an extent

Jeff: I refuted everything you said and provided you with facts (even though his "facts" were one doctor saying he would rather his son be a heroin addict than an alcoholic, and another guy saying the meth epidemic is nothing to be concerned about- HELLO, THOSE ARE OPINIONS DIPSHIT LOL)

me: I am angry with you because you are defending the use of meth

you: I am not defending the use of meth! I am defending knowledge, freedom, liberty, and justice for all (music starts playing again). All you say are lies! Lies I tell you!

me: (confused) But I thought you were defending the occasional use of meth

you: blah blah blah more freedom and liberty stuff.

me: totally confused

KEEP IT UP JEFF YOU'RE DOING A GREAT JOB!

NEVER put words in my mouth, please. It is completely obvious now that you do NOT read or understand plain English so you are incapable of engaging in a rational discussion, much less summarizing the (one-sided) conversation we've had. EVERYthing you said above about what I said is a lie and it's been repeatedly shown to anyone here who does read and integrates that knowledge HONESTLY.

I tolerated and even fogave your personal attacks on me as I figured your personal experiences were so traumatic that you were blinded temporarily by them and would soon realize how much damage they're doing to your psyche. I thought you did care about young people, but now I know that you no more care about them than the man on the moon. You are lying to them and then you expect them to follow your stupidity.

You've given up your power to outside sources without a thought about the long-term, disasterous consquences of it. Your professors are probably laughing behind your back about how easy it is to control you and turn you into a good little automaton statist.

I now feel more sorry for you than any drug abuser I know. You are hooked on irrationality, dishonesty, and emotional thinking...which btw are NOT diseases (look up the medical definition of disease) anymore than is drug abuse. Yours is about the worst case of dishonesty abuse I've ever seen. It's fatal, but still "curable," btw.

My case has been made over and over and over. Go ahead and keep lying about what I've said, but note that every post like this you make just reinforces my point again. You've caught yourself in the dishonesty, self-exposure trap and there's only one way out. I tried to open the gate, but you keep slamming it shut. I'm too tired to do it again.

Jeff Livingston

 

[drivermaker]

Where's that bonehead larrynj1 when he's needed. Larry, I think your words of wisdom are REALLY needed here. (seriously)

 

[JAM]

All this talk about getting high on uppers is making me thirsty. I'm going to go catch a buzz at Starbucks and get me a triple shot cappie!

On a serious note, I'm a survivor of the Woodstock generation. Late '60s and early '70s was a time when altering one's state of consciousness at will was considered a societal norm. I do remember the era and am happy I managed to make it out alive and well. Some of my friends weren't so lucky.

JAM [Member of the Woodstock Alumni]

 

[SUPERSTAR]

a) Notice I explained withdrawal symptoms and how they are unbearable for the addict. Addicts rarely can just quit cold turkey, they need serious help to get off the drugs.

b)You just admitted meth is dangerous and people shouldn't mess with it. That is what I've been saying throughout this debate.

c)Like I said, it is the users fault for trying the drug and getting addicted, but once they become addicted they really have no control over themselves. The addiction becomes more like a disease.

d)what is your point!?

a) If an addict wants to quit, they will quit. Withdrawl symptoms or not.
You can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves.

b) I never said that meth wasn't dangerous. I said that it is possible to take meth recreationally, and that it actually has medical uses, and you went and laid this huge egg.. Where, it IS possible for someone to take it and not have their life destroyed. The people that ABUSE the drug (take it to get high instead of some specific use) are the ones who usually end up getting hooked, and it is their own fault in the first place for having an abusing personality, and embarking on the meth path to begin with. They have weak minds. You argued that the majority of the world, has no say in whether they become an addict or not, and that meth will torture them as soon as they try it, and that's not the way it happens. People need to take more responsibility for putting it into their bodies, knowing that they might abuse it.
But you try to dismiss this, almost like you don't want to blame your friends for their own undoing, but you'd rather blame the meth, and let your friends off the hook.

c) Saying it's a disease makes it not their fault. For an addict to reach the point where they have no power over the drug, and no ability to decide to stop, means that they CHOSE to obtain the drug many many times over.
It does not happen that they take meth once, and that is the end of their lives.

d) You obviously haven't been paying attention. Stop trying to win the battle with CJ and go back and reflect.

I win!

 

[DaveK]

Thank you Dave for explaining this to me. If I control my own emotions can I can control my own decisions also? Can I decide to be pissed off at CJ because of what he said? Can LT decide to be pissed off at Chef for what he said? Now if no one is a hypocrite then it is OK to be pissed off at anyone we want. Therefore, I submit that (based on my decision and emotions) that Chef pissed me off and he probably pissed Last TWO off also.

Thank you for allowing me my own decisions and emotions. LOL

Wayne

You can only control your own decisions if you are not married

BTW, I'm trying that wrist twist trick (say that 10 times fast !) and have a few questions / comments forthcoming in a new thread. I hope you will provide some feedback Wayne. I'm done with this thread BTW, sorry for preaching.

Dave

 

[bogey54311]

I don't want names, but you seem to have inside knowledge of this...so could I ask you to relate how those users are doing with their games and with their lives overall? This would be of benefit to players here, I'd think.

Jeff Livingston

they are donig fine.......the drugs you guys are talkin about are much harsher than the ones im talkin about. kinda like a functional drunk.....ya know?


chris

 

[unknownpro]

What rock are you living under? The fact that the pharmaceutical industry is a trillion (yes that is a TRILLION) dollar industry and they are pushing ANTIDEPRESSANTS at an unprecedented rate trying to get every man, woman and child hooked by having their failed lackeys (psychiatrists) dream up more and more disorders and get them prescribing drugs to hook children from birth to death. TOM CRUISE has the balls to stand up and make the lies known despite the knowledge he will be attacked relentlessly for it, he was willing to do it to help educate the public to this fraud. The future will prove him and others who are trying to prevent this fraud from continuing as helpers of mankind. I for one started researching this psychiatric fraud after hearing what he had to say and was startled to find how much corruption and coverups were involved in pushing this TRILLION dollar industry.

Just the fact that almost all of the kids who did the mass killings like Littleton and many others were on psychiatric drugs or under psychiatric care should give people great concerns especially because of the cover up involved. To excuse it as "oh they were depressed anyway" is the sign of an idiot. People get depressed all the time but they don't go around blowing people away or chopping up their family.

Wayne

Yeah, what he said. Don't forget about the Columbine Prozac killings.
unknownpro

 

[9balldiva]

Well, taking pills and uppers doesn't necessarily help your game, but for some they can't play without it! It's a mental thing. They think they can't play pool well unless they have their drugs, and because they think this, it actually rings true for them!

 

[wayne]

I'm living under a rock called REALITY! You should try it sometime.

So what if there was 1 or 2 headlines allegedly due to a drug.

Excuse me for thinking that there is something wrong if someone is depressed and not killing anybody or themselves and then takes anti-depressants and goes on a killing rampage.

You want REALITY ok here is REALITY but it isnt pretty:

8 of the last 13 school shooters were taking prescribed psychiatric drugs.

A few weeks ago an Indiana mother Magdalena Lopez was charged with murdering her two sons, aged 2 and 9, she had been taking an antidepressant.

Additionally just in the area of mothers on antidepressants killing their children:

Annie Hae Haskew smothered her 10 wk old son (on antidepressants)

Andrea Yates drowned her 5 children in a bathtub (antidepressants Effexor and Remeron at maximum dose)

Dena Schlosser kills 10 month old daughter by severing baby's arms (psychiatric medication for depression)

Mary Ellen Moffitt suffocated her 5 week old daughter and herself (antidepressant Paxil)

Emiri Padron smothered baby daughter (medication for depression)

Mine Ener used a kitchen knife to cut throat of 6 mo. old daughter (medication for depression)

THE List goes on and on and on so it and this is just a sampling off the US Newswire

6 million children in the U.S. currently on antidepressants is not a pretty picture.

Wayne

 

[wayne]

You can only control your own decisions if you are not married

BTW, I'm trying that wrist twist trick (say that 10 times fast !) and have a few questions / comments forthcoming in a new thread. I hope you will provide some feedback Wayne. I'm done with this thread BTW, sorry for preaching.

Dave

Oops you are right i forgot about the married people LOL.

I will try to provide some insight on the wrist turn when you post the new thread.

Wayne

 

[wayne]

NEVER put words in my mouth, please. It is completely obvious now that you do NOT read or understand plain English so you are incapable of engaging in a rational discussion, much less summarizing the (one-sided) conversation we've had. EVERYthing you said above about what I said is a lie and it's been repeatedly shown to anyone here who does read and integrates that knowledge HONESTLY.

I tolerated and even fogave your personal attacks on me as I figured your personal experiences were so traumatic that you were blinded temporarily by them and would soon realize how much damage they're doing to your psyche. I thought you did care about young people, but now I know that you no more care about them than the man on the moon. You are lying to them and then you expect them to follow your stupidity.

You've given up your power to outside sources without a thought about the long-term, disasterous consquences of it. Your professors are probably laughing behind your back about how easy it is to control you and turn you into a good little automaton statist.

I now feel more sorry for you than any drug abuser I know. You are hooked on irrationality, dishonesty, and emotional thinking...which btw are NOT diseases (look up the medical definition of disease) anymore than is drug abuse. Yours is about the worst case of dishonesty abuse I've ever seen. It's fatal, but still "curable," btw.

My case has been made over and over and over. Go ahead and keep lying about what I've said, but note that every post like this you make just reinforces my point again. You've caught yourself in the dishonesty, self-exposure trap and there's only one way out. I tried to open the gate, but you keep slamming it shut. I'm too tired to do it again.

Jeff Livingston

Whoa easy Jeff sounds like you may be getting upset by Last Two. Remember your quotes "The secret to happy pool is to Manage the shot."
"...every shot began to add to my happiness" "I built a happy pool shot from 1989 through 1997."

Now Last Two you should note that Jeff plays 8 ball and he plays "HAPPY POOL", he has spent 9 years building his "HAPPY POOL SHOT". I think you should take this into consideration and cut the guy some slack.

Wayne

 

[drivermaker]

NEVER put words in my mouth, please. It is completely obvious now that you do NOT read or understand plain English so you are incapable of engaging in a rational discussion, much less summarizing the (one-sided) conversation we've had. EVERYthing you said above about what I said is a lie and it's been repeatedly shown to anyone here who does read and integrates that knowledge HONESTLY.
Jeff Livingston

Hey Wayne...I don't know what you think, but based on the highlighted words and tone involved in this paragraph, my thinking is this sounds like one pissed off dude that ALLOWED someone ELSE to control his Dr. Spock emotions to send him off into another hissy fit. Whadda ya think? LOL