Uppers

[chefjeff]

I think it should be clear to all that ChefJeff is not advocating using, he is advocating knowledge. The certainly is a discernable difference between the 2 and I found the condom comment to be a bit of a knee-jerk reaction.

But...Jeff, you refer to anecdotal evidence often. Certainly there is enough (non-anecdotal, both sides) evidence for one to pick which to carry in support of his/ her chosen side. Just coz a link isn't posted that would meet the parameters you would require, doesn't mean that it isn't out there.

I think it is an uphill battle to try and defend meth use.

Thank you, Black-Balled for an intelligent, reasoned reply....and no personal attacks.

I agree with all you said.

It is VERY dangerous for ME (on many levels) to take the rational position with drugs. As you have seen, emotions play a big part in this subject. But that is exactly why I posted as I did. The whole drug situation in America (and now the world) is fucked up big time. One on hand, commercials, doctors, etc. proclaim the latest, greatest wonder drug, and on the other hand cops, teachers, parents, friends of dead abusers, etc. proclaim that all drugs are horrible. The truth is somewhere in between. An individual would be wise to seek it.

How about this: Those who agree with LastTwo should never ever use any drug at any time for any reason, as they might get hooked on it and have their lives ruined forever. And those that agree with me...well you don't need me to tell you how to live, you can figure it out for yourself.

Jeff Livingston

 

[bud green]

"...hold you in the same regard as used condoms and tissue paper."?

Wow, was that really necessary? I don't see the part of Chefjeffs' posts where he says "Hey kids, stick a needle in your arm. It's fun and won't hurt you "

I'd still rather live in a world where I make the decisions about what I ingest, instead of the government. At some point people have to take responsibility for their own actions without blaming outside influences.

Illegalizing anything doesn't seem to slow usage, just fill up jails. It also makes kids think cops are bad guys and lowers respect for the law in general.

A lot of things these days are dangerous. Kids watch guys going backflips on motorcycles 40 feet up in the air and landing on their head. Should we make the ESPN X-Games illegal also?

Why is it that the US, the land of the free, is one of first countries to tell everyone what they can or cannot do? (Islamic countries excluded, of course)

Places like Canada and Europe seem to have less regulation and less problems with substance abuse.

Just for the record, I do agree that tweakers suck.

 

[DaveK]

Places like Canada and Europe seem to have less regulation and less problems with substance abuse.

Not sure about Europe, but i believe that Canada and the US have fairly similar laws. They tend to be coordinated due to the wide range of close interactions between Canada and the US. We also coordinate our air-traffic control and frequency spectrum allocation (like FM radio stations) for the same reasons.

There is a lot of discussion about the impact of crystal meth around here in the Canadian prairies, for sure there is significant abuse happening here too. Profits in black-market goods are just too significant to ignore. We also have some serious problems with a mixture of ADD meds (Ritalin ?) in combination with another prescription medication/drug. Don't let anyone tell you that we don't have serious drug abuse and criminal distribution problems here in Canada, we do.

Dave

 

[Williebetmore]

just ask the people who went to Peoria if I look/act like a user.

Jeff Livingston

I'm going to have to weigh-in as one who would be SHOCKED if Chef was a user. Now Zeeder is a different story - though he also does not look like a user, we figure he must have sold some of his high dollar cues to support a habit (since we can't figure any other reason for him not bringing a cue to Peoria).

P.S. - Jeff, I thought I WAS a user after playing on that table at Dave's - we went back Saturday night (same table), and after an hour started testing the table - it was totally impossible to make a ball in 2 of the corner pockets along or near the rail - couldn't even get the cue ball to fall shooting down the rail - pocket facings are either fouled up or tricked up in some way - very bizarre, none of us have seen anything like it before. I guarantee I would have to be high to ever play on that table again.

 

[LastTwo]

I think it should be clear to all that ChefJeff is not advocating using, he is advocating knowledge. The certainly is a discernable difference between the 2 and I found the condom comment to be a bit of a knee-jerk reaction.

But...Jeff, you refer to anecdotal evidence often. Certainly there is enough (non-anecdotal, both sides) evidence for one to pick which to carry in support of his/ her chosen side. Just coz a link isn't posted that would meet the parameters you would require, doesn't mean that it isn't out there.

I think it is an uphill battle to try and defend meth use.

He should have based his argument about 'having knowledge' of the drug instead of basing it around that using meth "occasionally can be benefitial". Sounds like to me he is advocating use of the drug, Black Balled.

If he is advocating knowledge, then he advocates the same thing I do, since I have knowledge of every drug out there, and it just so happens that I know just about everything there is to know about meth. It also just so happens that I am trying to INFORM people, especially young forum browsers not to heed Jeff's advice on taking meth occasionally. And we ARE talking about meth and only meth, with the exception of a dumb doctor trying to make Heroin sound like it's as bad as Christmas cookies.

 

[LastTwo]

Thank you, Black-Balled for an intelligent, reasoned reply....and no personal attacks.

I agree with all you said.

It is VERY dangerous for ME (on many levels) to take the rational position with drugs. As you have seen, emotions play a big part in this subject. But that is exactly why I posted as I did. The whole drug situation in America (and now the world) is fucked up big time. One on hand, commercials, doctors, etc. proclaim the latest, greatest wonder drug, and on the other hand cops, teachers, parents, friends of dead abusers, etc. proclaim that all drugs are horrible. The truth is somewhere in between. An individual would be wise to seek it.

How about this: Those who agree with LastTwo should never ever use any drug at any time for any reason, as they might get hooked on it and have their lives ruined forever. And those that agree with me...well you don't need me to tell you how to live, you can figure it out for yourself.

Jeff Livingston

I took what you said and quoted you and based my opinion on you from WHAT YOU SAID. You are taking something that I never said and making an opinion of me from bullshit. Occasional use of marijuana is harmless, I support medical marijuana, and hell if I am with the right girl I might even take a hit. Like I said in my last post, I am arguing about meth and only meth. Had you said "Some drugs are okay for occasional use" I would have thought of marijuana and agreed with you, but you said METH.

 

[LastTwo]

"...hold you in the same regard as used condoms and tissue paper."?

Wow, was that really necessary? I don't see the part of Chefjeffs' posts where he says "Hey kids, stick a needle in your arm. It's fun and won't hurt you "

I'd still rather live in a world where I make the decisions about what I ingest, instead of the government. At some point people have to take responsibility for their own actions without blaming outside influences.

Illegalizing anything doesn't seem to slow usage, just fill up jails. It also makes kids think cops are bad guys and lowers respect for the law in general.

A lot of things these days are dangerous. Kids watch guys going backflips on motorcycles 40 feet up in the air and landing on their head. Should we make the ESPN X-Games illegal also?

Why is it that the US, the land of the free, is one of first countries to tell everyone what they can or cannot do? (Islamic countries excluded, of course)

Places like Canada and Europe seem to have less regulation and less problems with substance abuse.

Just for the record, I do agree that tweakers suck.

Of course my opinion on him doesn't seem necessary as he flip-flops backwards on his stance on the issue. He went from supporting it's occasional usage to supporting "knowledge" (pretty music starts playing) of the drug. I made my opinion about him based on what he said, and knowing that young people often read these forums.

Let me explain something to you Bud, please try to understand this. Finding rationale for OCCASIONAL USAGE OF METH, is ABSOLOUTELY, 100%, THE SAME EXACT DAMN THING THAT FUTURE-METH ADDICTS FIND BEFORE THEY GOT HOOKED ON THE DRUG!!! 99% OF THEM THINK THIS WAY! THEY LIKE HOW THE DRUG FEELS THE FIRST OR SECOND TIME THEY USE IT, AND THEY LIKE IT SO MUCH, THAT IT FORCES THEM TO FIND A REASON OR RATIONALE TO USE THE DRUG MORE OFTEN. OCCASIONAL USAGE TURNS INTO MODERATE USAGE, WHICH TURNS INTO HEAVY USAGE AND THE NEXT THINK THEY KNOW, THEY ARE F***ED FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.

JEFF HERE ADVOCATES THIS, I CAN QUOTE HIM ON THAT. DOES THAT PISS YOU OFF AS MUCH AS IT DOES ME?

PEOPLE WAKE UP!!!

 

[vagabond]

I read the first post of chefJeff and I did not get the feeling that he was advocating the use of drugs.It appeared to me that was trying to mean that there are indications for these to improve the health of humans when these are used judiciously.Infact that is a scietific truth.Many of these are discovered thru scientific research and were approved by FDC.
Second point he appears to be making was how our liberties are gradually getting eroded by the controlfreaks.
What my friend ChefJeff does not realize is that to start with there was no liberty at all as exemplified by one`s inability to choose the color of the paint he /she wants
for his/her home in many neighborhoods.

ChefJeff is a man with principles and values .

 

[chefjeff]

Of course my opinion on him doesn't seem necessary as he flip-flops backwards on his stance on the issue. He went from supporting it's occasional usage to supporting "knowledge" (pretty music starts playing) of the drug. I made my opinion about him based on what he said, and knowing that young people often read these forums.

Knowledge is a necessary ingredient in making choices, if the choices have any chance of success. (Someone else used that term btw.) I've been advocating rational choices based on the truth, in context, ie, fully integrated honesty. No fip-flop.

Let me explain something to you Bud, please try to understand this. Finding rationale for OCCASIONAL USAGE OF METH, is ABSOLOUTELY, 100%, THE SAME EXACT DAMN THING THAT FUTURE-METH ADDICTS FIND BEFORE THEY GOT HOOKED ON THE DRUG!!! 99% OF THEM THINK THIS WAY!
THEY LIKE HOW THE DRUG FEELS THE FIRST OR SECOND TIME THEY USE IT, AND THEY LIKE IT SO MUCH, THAT IT FORCES THEM TO FIND A REASON OR RATIONALE TO USE THE DRUG MORE OFTEN. OCCASIONAL USAGE TURNS INTO MODERATE USAGE, WHICH TURNS INTO HEAVY USAGE AND THE NEXT THINK THEY KNOW, THEY ARE F***ED FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.

JEFF HERE ADVOCATES THIS,

You made the same error in your thinking, LastTwo. This time you are pretending that I engage in the same false, non sequitur thinking that you do. You proclaim YOUR thoughts about meth and then falsely attempt to say that that is what I advocate. You've missed the reality of it all again.

I CAN QUOTE HIM ON THAT. DOES THAT PISS YOU OFF AS MUCH AS IT DOES ME?

Actually I can't piss you or anyone off; you all can only piss off yourself, witness the variety of reactions to my posts.

PEOPLE WAKE UP!!![/

QUOTE]

Yes, people, wake up....dream time is over.

Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

I read the first post of chefJeff and I did not get the feeling that he was advocating the use of drugs.It appeared to me that was trying to mean that there are indications for these to improve the health of humans when these are used judiciously.Infact that is a scietific truth.Many of these are discovered thru scientific research and were approved by FDC.
Second point he appears to be making was how our liberties are gradually getting eroded by the controlfreaks.
What my friend ChefJeff does not realize is that to start with there was no liberty at all as exemplified by one`s inability to choose the color of the paint he /she wants
for his/her home in many neighborhoods.

ChefJeff is a man with principles and values .

This is true, too. In fact, Vagabond, this gives me a chance to better explain the process of integration I been using successfully for managing the moment. Thanks for your post.

In the exact moment that one makes the choice to use or not, lies the power to manage reality in effective, rational, simple ways. If one can integrate knowledge and principles and values, and other important things, then have them available and workable when needed (now), one can manage the moment quite well. To be perfect?...hell no....but to be happier?...hell yes.

Take the pool shot. The secret to happy pool is to manage THIS shot. Not the last shot. Not the next shot. This shot. This shot is the only shot that exist. "But Jeff, you have to consider future shots to plan patterns, etc., don't you" Yes, but you do that during THIS shot. All of the control factors are located within THIS shot. And I am the one who manages this shot....no one or no other thing can, by nature. So I decided to take over the job of managing THIS shot and that's when every shot began to add to my happiness. This is good and works for me.

Because I first built a happy pool shot from 1989 though 1997, I then developed additional processes when I realized that the concept of "The Recipe," as I call it, could be used for other endeavors beyond pool. Thus "ChefJeff," btw.

Jeff Livingston

 

[LastTwo]

Uppers, at the right time, can make a tremendous difference in good outcomes............

.................This could be true of a late-night pool match, too, couldn't it for SOME people, SOME of the time?

This was quoted from your first post. I replied that you must be talking about methamphetamine, because that is the main form of 'uppers' used by pool players who stay up all day and night playing. Now do you see where my impression of you came from?

People on this board started agreeing with my side, and you changed your stance. You have not repeated what you said from your first post, now you say that what you actually meant from that is just to have knowledge of this drug? You are really starting to confuse me.

Jeff, do you advocate the occasional use of meth, yes or no? My impression was that you say yes, now I don't know what to think because you are constantly changing.

Any "lies" I have used are merely examples and speculations used to make a point, which you obviously missed. Noting the benefits of the occasional use of a hardcore drug like meth, you are copying what addicts do before they become addicted. I've already explained this- they try the drug, they like the drug, and they think they can control it if they use it occasionally, and they like the drug so much they desperatly try to find excuses why using it occasionally is good, such as "I've got to stay up all night and study for this exam.."etc. Every addicts says what you are saying. That is my point, as I said before. Everything I have said about the drug is completely accurate and you cannot refute it because you have presented ONE SINGLE SOURCE with ONE SINGLE PERSON'S OPINION that states something different. The rest of the world agrees with me Jeff.

 

[wayne]

Actually I can't piss you or anyone off; you all can only piss off yourself, witness the variety of reactions to my posts.
Jeff Livingston

Uhh, actually, you did piss him off from what I read. You do have that ability and reading some of your strange posts on drugs kind of pissed me off too. For example quoting some nut doctor who would rather have his kid a heroin addict than an alcoholic is a good example of how nuts some people can be and someone finding some sense in this is nuts too. What parent would even consider either of those options for their kid unless they were crazy? As if either one had any redeeming qualities. I wonder if he would prefer his son was a mass murderer rather than a serial rapist. It is about as logical. Try not to quote some nut as if he is an authority if he makes retarded comparisons like this. Also, dont quote people who have a vested interest in pushing a drug as if they were an authority.

Wayne

 

[SUPERSTAR]

here we go.

LastTwo, is clearly scarred from his personal account of how his friends went down the toilet because of meth, and other stories that he was witness to.
That is why he clings to his ideals in this thread.
He is very passionate about it.

chefjeff is CLEARLY not saying "HEY ALL WANNABE POOL PLAYERS, GO OUT AND SCORE SOME METH AND YOU TOO CAN BE A WORLD CHAMPION." He is mearly stating a fact, that by the use of stimulants, by the very mechanisms of their actions (increased alertness, ability to focus more, more energy and less fatigue) that in certain situations, Stimulants CAN BE USEFUL! Whether it is for pilots, truckers that have to stay awake, or pool players trying to up their game, their use definitely has an individual purpose in some instances. (which is a matter of personal choice)
That does not mean he is saying to go try them out. He addressed the question asked of him, and answered it.

While Meth can be, and IS a massive problem in some areas, That in no way means that every user will become an addict, and that every life will be destroyed. There are MANY people that manage to use all sorts of drugs on a recreational level WITHOUT ever getting hooked.

THAT IS NOT TO SAY, that EVERYONE is immune, and that all people are capable of this. Clearly, every person is different, but for someone to say that meth CANNOT be used occasionally, is clearly wrong.

AND there are people in this world, that cannot think straight because of ADD and ADHD. It is interesting to point out, that the very drugs used to "FIX" these problems, are METH, and it's relatives.

AND, if you know anyone who truly has ADD, you would also know that these people cannot get high off of the drug. It acts in a way to stop them from being scatterbrained, and helps them to lead normal lives. Even in high doses, they do not experience any euphoria and do not feel like the champions of the universe. It just helps them think and that's it.
That is an example of where using meth actually HELPS someone lead a better life.

I know a lawyer, who has never been to the doctor to see if he has ADD.
He gets his speed from his source, and it is the ONLY thing that allows him to function. He does not binge, and is incapable of getting high from it. He just takes it in the morning, and once later in the day, and he is organized, able to function, and productive.

He has been using speed for 15 years that i know of, and has a very lucrative practice, and hasn't flushed his life down the drain. He does not have the LOOK (and he is kind of chubby), and I would suspect that he HAS a form of ADD, and that by his experimenting with drugs, he found something that helped him with his problem. I might also add, that when he runs out or forgets to take it, that he isn't freaking out to score, but he clearly cannot think properly, is unorganized, and has severe problems paying attention.

I'm not telling everyone that meth is safe for all users, cause that is clearly not true. But to say that it does not have beneficial uses for SOME people, is clearly wrong.
It, just like any other drug, need to be addressed with caution, and EDUCATION, which means that it is GOOD to know what the drug can do. Both the good AND the bad, and then it's just up to the individual.

I mean, who is more likely to abuse drugs in the future. The kid who takes cough medicine because he's sick, or the guy who mixes the whole bottle with soda and drinks it so he can get high?

Personality is a HUGE part of the problem.

If this thread is read by aspiring pool players, that want to experiment with drugs, reading this isn't forcing them to take them. They are the ones who make that choice.

So don't dismiss the fact that people CHOOSE to try drugs.
Drugs didn't just jump out from behind a tree and viciously attack them, or leap off of these forum pages and mugg them!
They make a CHOICE to try them out. Which is THEIRS to make.
Someone telling a kid not to take drugs, isn't going to do a damn thing, if the kid is determined to try them out regardless.

Them surviving that initial choice, is up to them!

 

[unknownpro]

here we go.

LastTwo, is clearly scarred from his personal account of how his friends went down the toilet because of meth, and other stories that he was witness to.
That is why he clings to his ideals in this thread.
He is very passionate about it.

chefjeff is CLEARLY not saying "HEY ALL WANNABE POOL PLAYERS, GO OUT AND SCORE SOME METH AND YOU TOO CAN BE A WORLD CHAMPION." He is mearly stating a fact, that by the use of stimulants, by the very mechanisms of their actions (increased alertness, ability to focus more, more energy and less fatigue) that in certain situations, Stimulants CAN BE USEFUL! Whether it is for pilots, truckers that have to stay awake, or pool players trying toup there game, their use definitely has a individual purpose in some instances. (which is a matter of personal choice)
That does not mean he is saying to go try them out. He addressed the question asked of him, and answered it.

While Meth can be, and IS a massive problem in some areas, That in no way means that every user will become an addict, and that every life will be destroyed. There are MANY people that manage to use all sorts of drugs on a recreational level WITHOUT ever getting hooked.

THAT IS NOT TO SAY, that EVERYONE is immune, and that all people are capable of this. Clearly, every person is different, but for someone to say that meth CANNOT be used occasionally, is clearly wrong.

AND there are people in this world, that cannot think straight because of ADD and ADHD. It is interesting to point out, that the very drugs used to "FIX" these problems, are METH, and it's relatives.

AND, if you know anyone who truly has ADD, you would also know that these people cannot get high off of the drug. It acts in a way to stop them from being scatterbrained, and helps them to lead normal lives. Even in high doses, they do not experience any euphoria and do not feel like the champions of the universe. It just helps them think and that's it.
That is an example of where using meth actually HELPS someone lead a better life.

I know a lawyer, who has never been to the doctor to see if he has ADD.
He gets his speed from his source, and it is the ONLY thing that allows him to function. He does not binge, and is incapable of getting high from it. He just takes it in the morning, and once later in the day, and he is organized, able to function, and productive.

He has been using speed for 15 years that i know of, and has a very lucrative practice, and hasn't flushed his life down the drain. He does not have the LOOK (and he is kind of chubby), and I would suspect that he HAS a form of ADD, and that by his experimenting with drugs, he found something that helped him with his problem. I might also add, that when he runs out or forgets to take it, that he isn't freaking out to score, but he clearly cannot think properly, is unorganized, and has severe problems paying attention.

I'm not telling everyone that meth is safe for all users, cause that is clearly not true. But to say that it does not have beneficial uses for SOME people, is clearly wrong.
It, just like any other drug, need to be addressed with caution, and EDUCATION, which means that it is GOOD to know what the drug can do. Both the good AND the bad, and then it's just up to the individual.

I mean, who is more likely to abuse drugs in the future. The kid who takes cough medicine because he's sick, or the guy who mixes the whole bottle with soda and drinks it so he can get high?

Personality is a HUGE part of the problem.

If this thread is read by aspiring pool players, that want to experiment with drugs, reading this isn't forcing them to take them. They are the onese who make that choice.

So don't dismiss the fact that people CHOOSE to try drugs.
Drugs didn't just jump out from behind a tree and viciously attack them, or leap off of these forum pages and mugg them!
They make a CHOICE to try them out. Which is THEIRS to make.
Someone telling a kid not to take drugs, isn't going to do a damn thing, if the kid is determined to try them out regardless.

Them surviving that initial choice, is up to them!

Government statistics say that over 100,000 people a year a killed by the PROPER use of properly prescribed prescription drugs. That does not count accidental overdose or abuse of any kind by the Rush Limbaughs of the hypocrite world. Please do not imply to people that prescription medicines or those related street drugs are safe, especially antidepressants which are known to cause suicidal behavior. Take some vitamins and minerals and get some sleep once in a while.

unknownpro

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Government statistics say that over 100,000 people a year a killed by the PROPER use of properly prescribed prescription drugs. That does not count accidental overdose or abuse of any kind by the Rush Limbaughs of the hypocrite world. Please do not imply to people that prescription medicines or those related street drugs are safe, especially antidepressants which are known to cause suicidal behavior. Take some vitamins and minerals and get some sleep once in a while.

unknownpro

Over 50,000 people die every year due to complications from NON STEROIDAL ANTI IMFLAMMATORY AGENTS alone! Which are your over the counter asprin, ibuprofen, and acetamiophen.

I'm not talking about the government deceiving us, cause i've already said that. (Did you fail to read my previous posts?)
I'm talking about the choice people make when they KNOW that a certain substance can be dangerous, and the fact, that some people can take drugs with no chance of getting hooked.

Not the fact that the government wants money and will exploit the people of this country in any way possible to get it.

and as far as ANTIDEPRESSANTS are concerned. Yes, some of them have been linked to suicide, but you are also dealing with people that are DEPRESSED TO BEGIN WITH! They kill themselves at a higher rate than normal ANYWAY!
LOL...that was just too funny.

Vitamins and minerals? You sound like TOM CRUISE and his whole scientology crap.

Did you ever take an asprin in your life?

 

[unknownpro]

Over 50,000 people die every year due to complications from NON STEROIDAL ANTI IMFLAMMATORY AGENTS alone! Which are your over the counter asprin, ibuprofen, and acetamiophen.

I'm not talking about the government deceiving us, cause i've already said that. (Did you fail to read my previous posts?)
I'm talking about the choice people make when they KNOW that a certain substance can be dangerous, and the fact, that some people can take drugs with no chance of getting hooked.

Not the fact that the government wants money and will exploit the people of this coutry in any way possible to get it.

and as far as ANTIDEPRESSANTS are concerned. Yes, some of them have been linked to suicide, but you are also dealing with people that are DEPRESSED TO BEGIN WITH! They kill themselves at a higher rate than normal ANYWAY!
LOL...that was just too funny.

Vitamins and minerals? You sound like TOM CRUISE and his whole scientology crap.

Did you ever take an asprin in your life?

Yeah, I read and appreciated your previous comments. I just wanted to point out that this crap can be deadly, having nothing to do with legality or illegality. Take all you want, if you want. That'll leave less for the depressed poeple who don't want to kill themselves. Tom Cruise can play me some, I'll get high on aspirin and a soft drink just to give him a chance.

unknownpro

 

[chefjeff]

Uhh, actually, you did piss him off from what I read. You do have that ability and reading some of your strange posts on drugs kind of pissed me off too. For example quoting some nut doctor who would rather have his kid a heroin addict than an alcoholic is a good example of how nuts some people can be and someone finding some sense in this is nuts too. What parent would even consider either of those options for their kid unless they were crazy? As if either one had any redeeming qualities. I wonder if he would prefer his son was a mass murderer rather than a serial rapist. It is about as logical. Try not to quote some nut as if he is an authority if he makes retarded comparisons like this. Also, dont quote people who have a vested interest in pushing a drug as if they were an authority.

Wayne

Hi Wayne, thanks for your response. I'd like to clarify a few things:

The doctor is not crazy...google him or listen to him on the radio, daily. He is very good at taking studies and explaining them to the laymen in objective, valuable ways. He was making a comparison between alcohol and herion, not advocating the use of either. Of the two, he said he'd rather have his son on herion rather than alcohol, as he, an MD, has seen both sides and knows for a fact that opiates are able to control pain and yet allow the user to live a fairly normal life. He was refuting the lies of the drug war at the time.

Who had a vested interest in pushing the drugs? I must've missed that one....unless you're talking about the govt?

Again, I did not piss you off; YOU pissed off yourself after reading my posts. For example, you could have decided to not be pissed and instead chosen to remain objective and non-emotional, dove deeper into the subject and come out of it with a different thought, just as some here did. Right? Just like you don't have to be pissed when someone sharks you at the table...you can chose your emotional responses.

Jeff Livingston

 

[LastTwo]

here we go.

LastTwo, is clearly scarred from his personal account of how his friends went down the toilet because of meth, and other stories that he was witness to.
That is why he clings to his ideals in this thread.
He is very passionate about it.

chefjeff is CLEARLY not saying "HEY ALL WANNABE POOL PLAYERS, GO OUT AND SCORE SOME METH AND YOU TOO CAN BE A WORLD CHAMPION." He is mearly stating a fact, that by the use of stimulants, by the very mechanisms of their actions (increased alertness, ability to focus more, more energy and less fatigue) that in certain situations, Stimulants CAN BE USEFUL! Whether it is for pilots, truckers that have to stay awake, or pool players trying to up their game, their use definitely has an individual purpose in some instances. (which is a matter of personal choice)
That does not mean he is saying to go try them out. He addressed the question asked of him, and answered it.

While Meth can be, and IS a massive problem in some areas, That in no way means that every user will become an addict, and that every life will be destroyed. There are MANY people that manage to use all sorts of drugs on a recreational level WITHOUT ever getting hooked.

THAT IS NOT TO SAY, that EVERYONE is immune, and that all people are capable of this. Clearly, every person is different, but for someone to say that meth CANNOT be used occasionally, is clearly wrong.

AND there are people in this world, that cannot think straight because of ADD and ADHD. It is interesting to point out, that the very drugs used to "FIX" these problems, are METH, and it's relatives.

AND, if you know anyone who truly has ADD, you would also know that these people cannot get high off of the drug. It acts in a way to stop them from being scatterbrained, and helps them to lead normal lives. Even in high doses, they do not experience any euphoria and do not feel like the champions of the universe. It just helps them think and that's it.
That is an example of where using meth actually HELPS someone lead a better life.

I know a lawyer, who has never been to the doctor to see if he has ADD.
He gets his speed from his source, and it is the ONLY thing that allows him to function. He does not binge, and is incapable of getting high from it. He just takes it in the morning, and once later in the day, and he is organized, able to function, and productive.

He has been using speed for 15 years that i know of, and has a very lucrative practice, and hasn't flushed his life down the drain. He does not have the LOOK (and he is kind of chubby), and I would suspect that he HAS a form of ADD, and that by his experimenting with drugs, he found something that helped him with his problem. I might also add, that when he runs out or forgets to take it, that he isn't freaking out to score, but he clearly cannot think properly, is unorganized, and has severe problems paying attention.

I'm not telling everyone that meth is safe for all users, cause that is clearly not true. But to say that it does not have beneficial uses for SOME people, is clearly wrong.
It, just like any other drug, need to be addressed with caution, and EDUCATION, which means that it is GOOD to know what the drug can do. Both the good AND the bad, and then it's just up to the individual.

I mean, who is more likely to abuse drugs in the future. The kid who takes cough medicine because he's sick, or the guy who mixes the whole bottle with soda and drinks it so he can get high?

Personality is a HUGE part of the problem.

If this thread is read by aspiring pool players, that want to experiment with drugs, reading this isn't forcing them to take them. They are the ones who make that choice.

So don't dismiss the fact that people CHOOSE to try drugs.
Drugs didn't just jump out from behind a tree and viciously attack them, or leap off of these forum pages and mugg them!
They make a CHOICE to try them out. Which is THEIRS to make.
Someone telling a kid not to take drugs, isn't going to do a damn thing, if the kid is determined to try them out regardless.

Them surviving that initial choice, is up to them!

You haven't read all my posts in this thread. I am not talking about prescriptions. I am talking about meth from the street that can be injected, snorted, and smoked. Thanks.

 

[chefjeff]

I took what you said and quoted you and based my opinion on you from WHAT YOU SAID. You are taking something that I never said and making an opinion of me from bullshit. Occasional use of marijuana is harmless, I support medical marijuana, and hell if I am with the right girl I might even take a hit. Like I said in my last post, I am arguing about meth and only meth. Had you said "Some drugs are okay for occasional use" I would have thought of marijuana and agreed with you, but you said METH.

Occasional use of pot is harmless? Are you sure about that? I would never say that, as that, too, is not true.

I tell you what, for the sake of argument, I'll be you this time....

How can you be so stupid to advocate use of pot?....You stupid fucking asshole....I have friends who lives have been ruined by pot. They thought just like you do, it harmless, and then they tried it, got hooked, and now they can't quit. Their lives are ruined, they've lost their wives and jobs, and all they do is sit around the tv, don't work and make life miserable for all those around them waiting until they get emphisema and die. YOU PISS ME OFF! I bet you're a user.

Your turn, have fun.

Jeff Livingston

 

[LastTwo]

Hi Wayne, thanks for your response. I'd like to clarify a few things:

The doctor is not crazy...google him or listen to him on the radio, daily. He is very good at taking studies and explaining them to the laymen in objective, valuable ways. He was making a comparison between alcohol and herion, not advocating the use of either. Of the two, he said he'd rather have his son on herion rather than alcohol, as he, an MD, has seen both sides and knows for a fact that opiates are able to control pain and yet allow the user to live a fairly normal life. He was refuting the lies of the drug war at the time.

Who had a vested interest in pushing the drugs? I must've missed that one....unless you're talking about the govt?

Again, I did not piss you off; YOU pissed off yourself after reading my posts. For example, you could have decided to not be pissed and instead chosen to remain objective and non-emotional, dove deeper into the subject and come out of it with a different thought, just as some here did. Right? Just like you don't have to be pissed when someone sharks you at the table...you can chose your emotional responses.

Jeff Livingston

Just because you listen to him on the radio makes him sane? There are a ton of whackos on the radio, and the main reason why they have jobs on the radio is BECAUSE they are wackos and what they say makes people angry and causes controversy.

So what lies are you referring to in the drug war? That heroin is not all that bad? Or that meth is not all that bad? I am asking you for once to be straightforward and honest with your opinion, so I want you to answer these questions YES or NO.

Do you believe meth usage is ok?
Do you believe the meth drug epidemic is nothing to worry about?
Do you believe heroin is not that bad of a drug?
Do you believe meth is not that bad of a drug?

You have really confused me because you don't seem to have a clear point to be made. When I ask a question you tend to beat around the bush and say that you meant something other than what you already said.