A lot of you are assuming a cue with ivory will lose value. I'm not so sure about that. They will become rarer and harder to sell certainly, but they may become more valuable despite or as a result of the ban. Should I keep it because it will increase in value or sell it because it will become a liability? Aside from the ethical issues, what do those of you who currently own a stick with ivory think about their future collectability and value? I'm only talking about existing works. I'm all for saving the elephants and the ban on imports and exports.
US Bans sale of all ivory across state lines
- Thread starter DblGonzo
- Start date
If anything FEAR of the law will drive some prices up. All this does is create a black market just like for any other illegal substance. And prices in the black market are often substantially higher for illegal goods than for legal ones. Only when the goods are illegally obtained, as in stolen, are the often sold for far less than their sticker price.
Bogus law
Our government is out to make everyone a criminal...................
The Nation of China is the country that is the main buyers and we have more of our rights removed.
We don't need more laws.
Our government is out to make everyone a criminal...................
The Nation of China is the country that is the main buyers and we have more of our rights removed.
We don't need more laws.
This is just my opinion. Ivory and pool have been linked together for hundreds of years. I think this law will be devastating to the pool industry. This law affects all of us in the pool community not just the people who have ivory in their cues. Not only will it kill the collector cue market but many conventions will be radically changed if you are unable to transport or sell any cues with ivory in them. We are talking about lively hoods here and a large investment that may be lost by many custom cue makers collectors and resellers who have cues with Ivory or have Ivory stock on hand. Not to mention the economic fallout from this. No people going to conventions or cue shows etc. How will this affect the cue market ?. Are they gonna come to the pool hall and confiscate your cue with Ivory in it just to make an example out of someone to say we are enforcing the law ?.
I am also wondering where is the Billiard Congress Of America the American Cue Makers Association and the pool industry giants are on this . Why is there not some kind of an exemption for makers ?. Or for collectors or a cut off date of the end of 2014. Why is no one lobbying for the cue makers and the pool industry in general . Why is no one fighting this law or at least getting it delayed until the ramifications can be understood?.
I was reading on the cue makers forum and Thomas Wayne said not to take this out of context that these laws have been around since the 80's but just not enforced. And now they are going to be enforced with vigor. This is crazy. It is a sad day for the billiard enthusiast's and the billiard industry .
I am also wondering where is the Billiard Congress Of America the American Cue Makers Association and the pool industry giants are on this . Why is there not some kind of an exemption for makers ?. Or for collectors or a cut off date of the end of 2014. Why is no one lobbying for the cue makers and the pool industry in general . Why is no one fighting this law or at least getting it delayed until the ramifications can be understood?.
I was reading on the cue makers forum and Thomas Wayne said not to take this out of context that these laws have been around since the 80's but just not enforced. And now they are going to be enforced with vigor. This is crazy. It is a sad day for the billiard enthusiast's and the billiard industry .
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I agree. The greed of man, wouldn't even take that in consideration. It should have been done years ago.
Yes, devastating
In a month, nobody will even be talking about this.... who cares. There are a million things on this planet to make a pool cue out of, and they are choosing an animal targeted for extinction... .geez.... give me a break
???
JB...I enjoy your posts, love your cases (have a tough love model), and will watch your upcoming 1P match against Lou....BUT, I absolutely must call BS on this! :smile:
Misdemeanors? perhaps....but Felonies??? I hope "Most of us" are not!
JB...I enjoy your posts, love your cases (have a tough love model), and will watch your upcoming 1P match against Lou....BUT, I absolutely must call BS on this! :smile:
Misdemeanors? perhaps....but Felonies??? I hope "Most of us" are not!
It's about as dumb the morons in Japan killing sharks to by cutting off their fin, letting the shark drown, just to make soup because it makes them "horny'... well, here is a tip... if a naked woman does NOT do it for ya, a "fin" really is not gonna help much
that would be the chinese who popularized the shark fin soup.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shark_fin_soup
and they think this item enhances male virility and is an aphrodisiac.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_penis
and it's no surprise that they are involved in the ivory market...
I vote for keeping the elephants. Maybe see this as a business opportunity, time to create a new material or something like that. As always the friggin money reigns over what's common sense. Asia is of course a gigantic pain in the a$$ regarding poching but you're smarter in the USA? Right?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/video-1035609/Baby-elephant-cries-hours-stomped-mom.html
Best regards
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Yes, devastating
Your right, who cares about private property rights, or people jobs/livelihood or investments or that little concept you say you believe in.... non governmental interference. Guess it is alright after all as long as they do it to someone else.
This line is utterly false. I agree it is not the end of cuemaking or pool. Oh, did the government interfere with the value of your stamps or did the collector market just dry up?
thoughts
Hate to be such a nihilist...but in the long run, aren't we all "insignificant little insects"? And if our moral imperative compels us to protect one species, we can pretty much justify the protection of all species... even if it comes at a significant financial cost to those most directly impacted.
In my area, you are not allowed to kill coyotes even if they encroach on your property (unless you're directly in peril - you have to call some agency, and they will send out a licensed trapper...or something like that). However, this policy -aimed to protect the coyote- directly puts my pets at risk. Is this cool? with some yes, but not with me.
I don't need ivory, and I like elephants (or at least I have no reason to dislike them)...but we should always consider the impact (yes...even financial) and trade-offs of imposing our morality (even collective) on society in general.
Hate to be such a nihilist...but in the long run, aren't we all "insignificant little insects"? And if our moral imperative compels us to protect one species, we can pretty much justify the protection of all species... even if it comes at a significant financial cost to those most directly impacted.
In my area, you are not allowed to kill coyotes even if they encroach on your property (unless you're directly in peril - you have to call some agency, and they will send out a licensed trapper...or something like that). However, this policy -aimed to protect the coyote- directly puts my pets at risk. Is this cool? with some yes, but not with me.
I don't need ivory, and I like elephants (or at least I have no reason to dislike them)...but we should always consider the impact (yes...even financial) and trade-offs of imposing our morality (even collective) on society in general.
exactly. just because those who have ivory in their cues have concerns doesn't mean they don't care if all elephants live or die. Yes, maybe the ban should have been more serious years ago. but it wasn't, resulting in many beautiful cues being made with ivory, buying that cue didn't kill an elephant, if you post saying "who cares?" maybe you don't need to be on this thread...
Bob, maybe they'll get it when, at some point in the near future, all that is available is an electric or hyrdogen-powered car. Then, for the "common good", our government decides to create a rule saying it's illegal for you to sell your old gas burner (i.e. American muscle car, Ferrari, etc.) Maybe then they could understand.
Oh, hell....who am I kidding, some people will just never get it. :frown:
Let's all go kill 2 elephants this year to keep things moving!
There are an estimated 470,000 elephants left, and about 35,000 were poached in 2012. 8% of the population poached every year. Can anybody read and understand those numbers and still say that it's not worth making an effort because it's all the Chinese, or that the government is taking away our rights? 100 animals PER DAY being poached for ivory.
This law will have an effect on demand for ivory in the U.S. Most cue makers will stop using ivory in their cues. Most if not all suppliers of cue makers will stop buying ivory. Multiply that many times over for many other industries that currently use ivory. Result: Less damand for raw ivory....simple economics.
Cues that are already out there will INCREASE in value, not DECREASE....simple economics.
But nobody's mentioned the real elephant in the room: HUNTERS WILL STILL BE ALLOWED TO GO OVER TO AFRICA AND KILL 2 ANIMALS PER YEAR!.
Are you freaknig kidding me? It doesn't get any more hypocritical than that ladies and gentlemen.....
There are an estimated 470,000 elephants left, and about 35,000 were poached in 2012. 8% of the population poached every year. Can anybody read and understand those numbers and still say that it's not worth making an effort because it's all the Chinese, or that the government is taking away our rights? 100 animals PER DAY being poached for ivory.
This law will have an effect on demand for ivory in the U.S. Most cue makers will stop using ivory in their cues. Most if not all suppliers of cue makers will stop buying ivory. Multiply that many times over for many other industries that currently use ivory. Result: Less damand for raw ivory....simple economics.
Cues that are already out there will INCREASE in value, not DECREASE....simple economics.
But nobody's mentioned the real elephant in the room: HUNTERS WILL STILL BE ALLOWED TO GO OVER TO AFRICA AND KILL 2 ANIMALS PER YEAR!.
Are you freaknig kidding me? It doesn't get any more hypocritical than that ladies and gentlemen.....
I seriously doubt this law will save even ONE elephant. The USA is not the importer of poached Ivory. We are using Ivory that was harvested 40 to 50 years ago on average. All it is doing is making a product that has already been here for decades illegal to sell.
It is all just for show to make the liberal base think they are actually doing something. Why not just help fund the hunting of poachers? They shoot them or hang them in many African countries. More law enforcement in Africa is the key. Not here where the Ivory industry is already dying off little by little as the supply dries up.
Why not crack down on import and export by enforcing the laws already on the book since 1989. Oh they have already done that and found that there was almost no more violations going on, so since they had no criminal activity to prosecute they needed to pass new laws to give them something to go after.
Once they started prosecuting and confiscating cues the Americans quit sneaking them in and out of the country. So now that they can't find any criminal activity, they want to make us criminals so they can prosecute us.
What a senseless piece of legislation.
It is all just for show to make the liberal base think they are actually doing something. Why not just help fund the hunting of poachers? They shoot them or hang them in many African countries. More law enforcement in Africa is the key. Not here where the Ivory industry is already dying off little by little as the supply dries up.
Why not crack down on import and export by enforcing the laws already on the book since 1989. Oh they have already done that and found that there was almost no more violations going on, so since they had no criminal activity to prosecute they needed to pass new laws to give them something to go after.
Once they started prosecuting and confiscating cues the Americans quit sneaking them in and out of the country. So now that they can't find any criminal activity, they want to make us criminals so they can prosecute us.
What a senseless piece of legislation.
Right ... the gov would not have to step in if some persons could "police" themselves, but in this instance, it has been shown they cannot. Oh, did someone lose their job over this ? Oh, that's right, it's still about money, not what is right and wrong... how silly of me not to see the big picture.
Joel hercek has a 10 year waiting list. I'm guessing, and I could be going out on a ledge here, but NOT one person called to take them off the list when this was announced