US Bans sale of all ivory across state lines

CLAUD said:
I see some posts referring to "ethical reasons" and "principles" for not wanting cues that contain ivory. I respect your positions and fully support your freedom of choice. The issue here however is that very thing. Ones choices and freedoms are being taken away. Also many will suffer monetary losses and this has nothing to do with protecting the majestic pachyderm. It is all political posturing to pander to a particular political base.

I think the cuemakers, collectors, and players who want ivory, that is preban and documented, should have that option and I see nothing unprincipled or unethical about that.
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Claud,
Please don't cloud the issue with facts such as this. Old fashioned ideas such as freedom, private property, the meaning of the Commerce Clause, have no place in a discussion of ethics. Your post infers that some may be hypocrites and that is totally unacceptable. Where would be we without do-gooders? Besides, why should we limit the power of the Dictator in pandering? This country was built on pandering.
 
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Celophanewrap said:
A little further research indicates that this new rule will not be in effect until sometime during the summer (likely until late June) so it's not illegal yet. At least not today, probably not tomorrow
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Can you provide more information to confirm it is okay to sell Ivory still.
 
Chris, Inuit, not Eskimo. Eskimo means eaters of raw meat I believe. They don't like that any more.

Just kidding. I imagine that there are Inuit in Alaska as well. As far as I read, like I mentioned. Inuit are the only ones allowed to own it. They make beautiful art work out of it so doubt that they are allowed to sell or export it either any longer.

My Grandfather gave me his old English School Boy wooden box. Inside was another wood box containing a set of Ivory Dominoes. If I remember, it was missing one piece.

I had always thought that with the size and thickness, they could be made into nice inlays.

Yeah, so unfortunately, I have some Ivory too. Pretty much early 1800s so legal.
 
Originally Posted by*Celophanewrap*A little further research indicates that this new rule will not be in effect until sometime during the summer (likely until late June) so it's not illegal yet. At least not today, probably not tomorrow


cueman said:
Can you provide more information to confirm it is okay to sell Ivory still.
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I placed a call to the enforcement arm of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife, Dept. of the Interior. That was the agency mentioned in related articles. The agent I spoke with, said, "Oh yeah..., I saw that too..." He then told me that currently it's only an idea and he wasn't certain if it would be a law or an administrative rule, but it wouldn't become effective until sometime in June at the earliest. I was also told to remember that this is the Federal Government we were talking about. There is already a ban in place and something like this could be expensive to implement, so it's still something that might not happen at all, or..... someone might get on their horse and try and force this through ASAP, but today it's not in effect, and it won't be tomorrow either, after that, ehhh......
 
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Not to be facetious, but if it gets implemented as quickly and efficiently as your new Health care Plan, I would say that you guys have not much to worry about, now or in the near future.
 
Repair work

What about shipping a cue that has ivory to have repairs done or a ivory buttcap that has crack and you already have the ivory because you bought it from a Ivory Dealer that is bonded by the government to sell ivory, sounds like they have a lot of holes to fill to enforce this one JMO
I guess a solid ivory handled cue is out of the question
LOL
 
Hmmm...

Has anyone tried to use Elk teeth, or Pig Tusk? (Obviously for smaller inlay work) Is that too small of an amount to work with?
 
Donny Lutz said:
Don't worry, it won't be an issue for long...just till all the elephants are gone...
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exactly :) This does not affect the pool world one bit. Cues are made everyday and twice on Sunday without ivory. Most of the guys I know and play with don't even have any ivory in their cues. Of course, can't they find another "expensive" substance to put in there.. gold leaf inlays, diamond chips, ruby's, etc so ??

Much ado about nothing :boring2:
 
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What I'm surprised about is that no one is saying that bans usually stimulate the market.

We've been through assault weapon bans, magazine capacity bans and ammunition access limitations. With every "Brady Bill" signed into law, gun sales go through the roof...prices get sky high as the market acts with panic to acquire what may soon be unavailable.

Get your ivory cue now...or potentially lose your window of opportunity. Should enforcement select the small business owner i.e. cuemakers or brokers or individual sellers, everything will change. Keep what you got! Get an extra shaft or two. And be thankful that you were here to enjoy what are potentially the last years of ivory art in cues.
 
The Lacey Act is legislation that I know impacts or at least parallels this situation. CITES certification must be acquired to prove endangered species pre date the legislation...or that fees for conservation have been paid to make the items legitimate.

Years ago I was in the rare insect trade. Endangered butterflies cannot be sold across state lines. There are something like 13 species listed to my recollection. I got out of rare insects and lepidoptery because of the feds. I took up pistol marksmanship...even represented my state at the national level then gave it up due to government regulation. If they're after my cues, it's time to say enough is enough.

I was advised that there is a class action suite against Obama for his radical decision. My small cue enterprise will surely suffer if I cannot sell cues at shows or via the internet. I will be looking into this legal initiative and watching to see if it gains any traction.

MODS: I'd like to see a sticky thread on this subject should a member have current information about how the new law will actually play out, and what legal options we as citizens have to protest.
 
Johnnyt said:
Oh my God. My cue will never play the same W/O the ivory. :eek: Johnnyt
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That's not the point. It has to do with the value of what you paid for. Put on the other person's shoe for a second. If you bought a $2K cue and it suddenly had no resale value how would you feel?
 
Drawman623 said:
The Lacey Act is legislation that I know impacts or at least parallels this situation. CITES certification must be acquired to prove endangered species pre date the legislation...or that fees for conservation have been paid to make the items legitimate.

Years ago I was in the rare insect trade. Endangered butterflies cannot be sold across state lines. There are something like 13 species listed to my recollection. I got out of rare insects and lepidoptery because of the feds. I took up pistol marksmanship...even represented my state at the national level then gave it up due to government regulation. If they're after my cues, it's time to say enough is enough.

I was advised that there is a class action suite against Obama for his radical decision. My small cue enterprise will surely suffer if I cannot sell cues at shows or via the internet. I will be looking into this legal initiative and watching to see if it gains any traction.

MODS: I'd like to see a sticky thread on this subject should a member have current information about how the new law will actually play out, and what legal options we as citizens have to protest.
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Well this might keep a lot of people from trying to flip cues (buy cheap, sell for high) since they will have a harder time trying to sell. Also, I'd be more hesitant to buy an expensive ivory cue knowing if I ever get in a jam it's be tough to sell.

On the other hand, cue makers might steer away from making cues w ivory since it'll be harder to sell thus making ivory cues more rare.

I don't see prices getting any higher.
 
This will have a neglible effect. Most of us unkowingly commit at least one felony a day anyway if you were to apply all the laws on the books. You think ivory cues are not sent in and out of California on a regular basis? Its been illegal there for a long time.
 
Woof Biscuit said:
That's not the point. It has to do with the value of what you paid for. Put on the other person's shoe for a second. If you bought a $2K cue and it suddenly had no resale value how would you feel?
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Oh, you mean you bought it for an investment, and it might (notice I said might) dip in value down the road..... welcome to the big boy world :)
 
ChicagoRJ said:
Oh, you mean you bought it for an investment, and it might (notice I said might) dip in value down the road..... welcome to the big boy world :)
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I've been in that world a long time, RJ. You must be the one in a fantasy land if you have time to post 11,000 times on a bulletin board.
 
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