USAPL....... are you kidding me???

[George]

I am soooooooo done with leagues. The USAPL just finished it's inaugural season here in R.I. and all I have to say is, what a joke.

League operator tells us he has 6 to 8 teams for the first season, week 1 comes and it's only 4 teams? No biggie, I decide I'm gonna stick it out because we really need someone to break the APA's stranglehold on the area.
We were told that as an incentive to get teams to join, the winner of the league would qualify to "go to Vegas". Wow, awesome we think right? Not so fast. My team proceeds to win the league and we're souped, ya know? Vegas here we come!
Then comes the first bad news, we didn't qualify for Vegas, we qualified for their regional tournament that just so happens to be called the "Go to Vegas" Tournament. We were told we misunderstood. Yeah right, I know what I was told and I feel like they used the term "Go to Vegas" disingenuously. So does everyone else in our league, make no mistake about it, we were misled.
Next bit of bad news, although my team played 15 weeks @ $50 per week($750 total) and won the league and the playoffs we were informed that there was no prize money? Really???????
When we questioned it we were informed that half the money from our league goes to the national office and the rest was going into the prize fund for the "Go to Vegas" tourney. Seriously????? You just collected a total of $3000 from our division and not 1 penny comes back to us??

Needless to say the USAPL is dead in our state, the second season is under way and it will be the last season for the USAPL in R.I. If we didn't have to play in the league to stay eligible for the Vegas qualifier then it would have already folded.

Good riddance USAPL and don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

 

[CSI - Ozzy]

On it

George, I just read this and I am going to investigate this first thing tomorrow morning. I will get to the bottom of this issue. Please send me your phone number in a private message. Thank you.

 

[George]

I appreciate you looking into it Ozzy, PM sent.

FTR I left the team even though most of my teammates decided to play it out this last season to play in the qualifier.

 

[ssbn610g]

George, have you had any resolution to the issues you enumerated in your previous post. I am curious as I am playing in the USAPL league in Ma. and have a few questions. Before airing them, I will ask the league operator.

 

[jburkm002]

Winner of a 4 team league gets to go to vegas. Sign me up. Seems like a misunderstanding. Can't imagine any league that can send 1 of 4 teams to vegas.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Well, even half of the League fees would have been a better start than we got from Canada. We won the VNEA Vegas trip and received $1500.00 for 5 players.

Plus, the LO thru in an extra $100 from the Vegas Steak Night fund Raiser.

Clearly their LO did a little fib on them and a play on words.

Hope you get some satisfaction out of it anyway Bud. At the very least, you would have thought that you might get a little beer money
from winning your spot.

 

[hang-the-9]

Winner of a 4 team league gets to go to vegas. Sign me up. Seems like a misunderstanding. Can't imagine any league that can send 1 of 4 teams to vegas.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

They don't. You play in the league. Based on your standing you get seeding in the playoffs for the season. Winners of each season playoffs qualify to play in the year end playoffs where one of those teams gets a trip to Vegas. That's from each game, so you will have 4 nights of league, a team from each of those nights will end up going to Vegas for the year. That is how they get enough money from the league for the Vegas trips, if you win your season, that's only the start. So you have 1. Win your session, you get seeded and a bye or at least matched to the lower ranked team in your season playoffs. 2. Each team that wins their season goes to a year end playoff, and the winner of that year end playoff gets the Vegas trip for the team.

That Go To Vegas tournament is a SINGLES tournament where the top finishers get entry and a trip in the national USAPL/BCAPL tournament. Where I play they have a Vegas tournament for both 9 and 8 ball, and may have a third for 10 ball.

Either the OP did not get what was explained or whoever explained glossed over the details.

When our league started a 10 ball Masters division (which i play in) there were not enough teams to get the Vegas trips for winning that, so they had a cash playoff a few times, then enough joined for the Masters division so the team that wins the playoffs at the end of the year gets the trip.

All of that is based on how the USAPL operates in my area.

 

[jtaylor996]

That is confusing as hell, no wonder he didn't get it.

I'm a damn rocket scientist (no shit, really), and have no clue what the hell you just said...

 

[hang-the-9]

That is confusing as hell, no wonder he didn't get it.

I'm a damn rocket scientist (no shit, really), and have no clue what the hell you just said...

I hope that they are small rockets without people then LOL

Simple summary, I hope at least, it's tough to explain too well without a full out diagram and flowchart it seems LOL

Round 1 is normal league play <--- seems the OP won that
Round 2 is session playoffs
Round 3 is end of year playoffs between winners of the session playoffs
Winner of Round 3 goes to Vegas as a team.
So say you have 4 teams.
Summer session you play, and win that. You now play end of session playoffs and team 1 wins that (winning by being in 1st place for the session is there for playoff standings)
Fall session you play, team 2 wins
Winter session, team 3 wins
Spring session team 4 wins

End of Spring session, the 4 winners of each session have a final playoff. Winner of that final playoff gets the Vegas trip.
The league operator has the funding to send the team because there is a full year of 4 teams paying into the league.
If they gave out one trip per session, unless there was a huge number of teams, there would not be enough money for that.

Go To Vegas tournaments are Singles tournaments. To play in those you just need to play a certain amount of games in the league (6 or something). Top 2 or 3 there also get a Vegas trip for the singles tournament(s) there. There is no entry fee or extra charge for those singles tournaments. Basically a free party for the players. If your team does not win the trip, you can get one by being a top finisher in the singles tournaments.

My league looks to have 4 Vegas teams (8/9 ball, 9 ball, 8 ball womens, 10 ball masters) and 4-6 Vegas singles trips they give away.
This is not counting all the work done with the junior league, charity tournaments, fund raisers for the junior national trip for the kids, etc...

But as I said, this is how my USAPL league is operated in MA, I don't know how the RI guy did things. I am thinking it is the same but he is maybe a bad communicator or had to modify things due to lack of teams.

 

[ssbn610g]

If you qualify to play in the Nationals in 9 ball tournement, which USAPL tournament will you play in. I looked at the BCA/USAPL National Tournament schedule and there are only 3 USAPL tournaments. None of them are 9 ball singles. There is a 9 ball challenge which a USAPL player can play but it appears to be a masters level tournament.

It takes 8 games in one session to get an average and qualify for the 9 ball tournament. However, the LO can re-rate you. There will be two winners in this session in your tournament. one rated 30-74 and the other rated 75-125. I think I have that right. Or, it could be two for each rating span.

My question is what tournament does it qualify you for at the nationals? Is it one not listed?

Thx

 

[ssbn610g]

What tournament do you qualify for when you win the 9 ball singles tournament? I only see 3 USAPL National tournaments listed and none of them are singles 9 ball. Is it an unlisted tournament?

 

[hang-the-9]

What tournament do you qualify for when you win the 9 ball singles tournament? I only see 3 USAPL National tournaments listed and none of them are singles 9 ball. Is it an unlisted tournament?

BCA leagues has it at the same time. It's a combination BCAPL/USAPL thing since both are CSI.

http://www.playbca.com/Events/2014BCAPLNationalChampionships.aspx

 

[ssbn610g]

Yes, I saw that. The only tournament that is BCA/USAPL combine is the 9 ball challenge and the 10 ball challenge. They explicitly say both. I will clear this up Sunday if I see my LO.

Thx, I will see you on the tables.

 

[lorider]

the same mis understanding happened last year in our ladies only apa division . only 4 teams played.. when they found out no team was going to vegas ....well lets say they were a lil disappointed. the lo went ahead and sent a team out of his pocket.

 

[CSI - Ozzy]

We at CSI did investigate this issue and I personally communicated our conclusion to George. After a few private messages, I believe he also concluded that it was a misunderstanding. George seems like a really honest and good person and I hope he reconsiders his position on playing in the USAPL again. I was going to simply let this thread die without posting anything further, however, since it was resurrected my response to George and his follow-up responses are below:

George,

I have looked into this issue and have concluded that this was a simple misunderstanding. Here is why I draw that conclusion.

1. It is impossible for the winner of a small 4-team division to win a trip from Road Island to Las Vegas. You even did the math in your thread…your division collected $1,500 for the local prize fund. You cannot send 5 people to Las Vegas for $1,500. Assuming airfare is $500/person and the hotel rooms are $79/night, it would cost a minimum of $4,870 to send a single team. That is why winners of a few divisions compete in a regional playoff to win the trip.

I completely understand that it isn't financially feasible for the league to send us to Vegas based on the money taken in. Intentional or not after the meeting we were all of the belief that the winner was going to Vegas. I will add that I would have played anyway so that isn't a deal breaker for me.

2. It is a very common structure for division winners to move on to a regional playoff to compete for a chance at the nationals.

I get that.

3. We spoke to your league operator and he said that he went over the structure in the beginning at a captain’s meeting. He believes that you and perhaps some other players misunderstood. To prevent that from happening again, he now distributes this information in writing.

Good

4. You implied that the name of the regional playoff was misleading. I’m not sure I agree. It is a playoff to determine which team “goes to Vegas” and was named just for that. However, if you misunderstood the structure from the beginning, I can understand why you would feel that way.

I stated the way it was presented to us was misleading, not the name itself. Intentional? I'll give you guys the benefit of the doubt that it was unintentional. Possibly lack of experience on the part of the LO?

If you ever have any concerns about the league, I would urge you to contact us directly and we will work on your behalf to resolve the issue. You would have gotten the same type of action from me without posting a thread on AZBilliards. I would also ask you to reconsider playing in the USAPL. It is a superior format and structure, there is no annual fee, and a lot more of the money goes back to the players. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Ozzy Reynolds
Manager, CSI
702-719-7665

 

[ssbn610g]

CSI - Ozzy

Thx for publishing the correspondence. It shows a level of concern that I appreciate. :thumbup:

 

[CreeDo]

Glad it got straightened out.

I actually made the same mistake, in the APA, thinking I was going to vegas when
I was actually just going to the regional tournament. It could just be a space cadet,
but I think they called it "Vegas qualifiers" or "The Vegas tournament" or something
which caused me to think we were flying across the country.

Glad to know I'm not the only one.

 

[nicksaint26]

I am also from RI and was thinking of possibly joining this league. I was under the same impression as George. I was almost sold because their selling point was something like 1 in 8 teams go to Vegas so unlike the APA your odds are so much better blah blah. Now I am not saying this is a bad league at all and that they were intentionally trying to deceive people but I do feel it was very misleading in the way it was presented. I have never played in the league so this is only my opinion based on how things were explained to me as a possible captain. I wish this league and all leagues nothing but success!

 

[hang-the-9]

I am also from RI and was thinking of possibly joining this league. I was under the same impression as George. I was almost sold because their selling point was something like 1 in 8 teams go to Vegas so unlike the APA your odds are so much better blah blah. Now I am not saying this is a bad league at all and that they were intentionally trying to deceive people but I do feel it was very misleading in the way it was presented. I have never played in the league so this is only my opinion based on how things were explained to me as a possible captain. I wish this league and all leagues nothing but success!

Right now there are 9 teams in our Masters division, one of those will have a Vegas trip at the end of the year. But you have to not just finish the session at top team, you have to win 2 playoff tournaments to do that, one for the session play off and one for the year end playoff between the session playoff winners.

There are 7 teams in another division (different cities), and one of those are also going to Vegas as a team.

Plus you have the singles tournaments for the Vegas trips as well.

There is an 8 ball and a 9 ball singles tournament in my area, 4 players from each tournament wind the trip.

That's 8 players not counting the various teams that go.

This is straight from the NEUSAPL facebook page:

"We have just purchased our first block of Seventy (70) airline tickets for the 2014 USAPL/BCAPL National Championships in Las Vegas and we will be buying more. Ask us how you can win an expense paid trip to Las Vegas for the Nationals where you play pool. In the New England USA Pool League, there is no yearly membership fee. Weekly dues are $7.00 per match. 50% of all weekly dues are guaranteed to go back to the players for the BCAPL/USAPL National Championships in Las Vegas, Cash Prizes and Trophies. Other National leagues give only a fraction of this amount back to its players and send only about one out of every 34-40 teams to its Vegas Nationals. Ask us about setting up a Vegas Division where you play. If your division has at least 12 teams, the league can send one team every year, guaranteed, to Vegas from your division. No more out of town playoffs, Regionals or States, only to lose at the last minute to the same teams and players who seem to go to the Nationals every year. Every playoff and “Vegas” tournament can be held at your home location. Play in the New England USA Pool League. Play for the League that puts the players and the sport first."

" SINGLES 8-BALL "Go to Vegas" TOURNAMENT: Join us on Saturday May 17 for our 8-ball singles tournament at the Billiards Cafe, 39 Main St. Ayer Ma. Doors open at 9-30am for practice and the tournaments will begin at 10:30. We will be hosting two tournaments, one for players ranked between 30 and 74 and the second for those players ranked between 75 and 125. Two players from each skill level category will win an expense paid trip to Las Vegas to compete in the 8-ball USAPL Singles Championships. Players must be active on a spring 8-ball roster of the New England USA Pool League. Players who have played less than 15 8-ball matches are subject to handicap review prior to the beginning of the tournaments. There is no cost to the player to enter this tournament."

"SINGLES 9-BALL "Go to Vegas" TOURNAMENT: Join us on Saturday April 26 for our 9-ball singles tournament at the Billiards Cafe 39 Main St. Ayer Ma. Doors open at 9-30am for practice and the tournaments will begin at 10:30. We will be hosting two side by side tournaments, one for players ranked between 30 and 74 and the second for those players ranked between 75 and 125. Two players from each Skill level category will win an expense paid trip to Las Vegas to compete in the 9-ball Championships. Players must be active players on a spring roster. This tournament is open to both 9-ball and 10-ball players in the New England USAPL. Players who are active on both a 9-ball and 10-ball spring roster will use their 9-ball rating. Players who have played less than 15 9-ball or 10-ball matches are subject to handicap review prior to the beginning of the tournaments. There is no cost to the player to enter this tournament"

 

[Mark Griffin]

Usapl

USAPL is designed to allow up to 12% or so of the teams to get to Vegas. That is 1 in 8. This does take a commitment from the players and the League Managers. But it is happening!

The other leagues usually send about 2%-3% range.

We are sorry for the confusion in this particular situation - but much more of the money gets back to the players than in any other national league.

Mark Griffin

I am also from RI and was thinking of possibly joining this league. I was under the same impression as George. I was almost sold because their selling point was something like 1 in 8 teams go to Vegas so unlike the APA your odds are so much better blah blah. Now I am not saying this is a bad league at all and that they were intentionally trying to deceive people but I do feel it was very misleading in the way it was presented. I have never played in the league so this is only my opinion based on how things were explained to me as a possible captain. I wish this league and all leagues nothing but success!