USPPA Reno players, did they get paid?

[sunnyday]

If it is that simple then why didn't this happen with the USPPA Reno event prize money or the winner of the Men's US Open 9-ball event?

What could go wrong?

Who said it was simple?

S.G.

 

[jwpretd]

You're right. It is listed as a Folsom address (looks like a residence) which is in El Dorado not Sacramento County.

As someone previously noted, Folsom is in Sacremento County; so is the corporate address - 183 Oxburough Drive, Folsom, CA. As another person speculated, it is a residential address.

It appears to be owned by a Mr. Kenneth Caruthers - "appears to be" as the data I'm looking at may be incorrect or not current. Also, a Mr. Ken Caruthers is listed as the administrative and technical contact for the usppa.org domain, but the address given is "in care of" Network Solutions' Drums, PA., address.

 

[justnum]

The USPPA Reno event held at the Peppermill, a casino that has publicly stated not being involved with the USPPA Reno tournament, in any way other then renting out the space to them, has not paid the players.

How many events were held until the USPPA had their first delayed payment event?

All this avoidance about discussing the USPPA makes it seem like a network has been uncovered.

 

[Mike_S]

The USPPA Reno event held at the Peppermill, a casino that has publicly stated not being involved with the USPPA Reno tournament, in any way other then renting out the space to them, has not paid the players.

How many events were held until the USPPA had their first delayed payment event?

All this avoidance about discussing the USPPA makes it seem like a network has been uncovered.

Are you wearing your tin foil hat?

 

[SlowEddie]

I guess you don't understand. Mark Griffin had nothing to do with the USPPA tournament in Reno. Mark Griffin is a stand up guy and does everything to promote pool. Events and problems which occurred in Reno at the USSPA only hurts the sport.

 

[SlowEddie]

Mark Griffin not affilieated with USPPA

Justnum,

I guess you don't understand. Mark Griffin had nothing to do with the USPPA tournament in Reno. Mark Griffin is a stand up guy and does everything to promote pool. Events and problems which occurred in Reno at the USSPA only hurts the sport.[/QUOTE]

 

[Dudley]

Dudley,

it's not as uncommon as you think. I dont mean no payouts, but there are many times tournaments dont add all the money or cheat and pay out places at the wrong amount. This happened with a tour in cali this year. As a player you should add up money paid out and make sure it matches money added and money recieved in entries. We as respectable owners do (at least I do).

I hear your point. Still there is a big difference between the payouts being smaller then advertised and no money paid out for a month.

I agree that there should be some accountability with payouts. :thumbup:

There has always been a grey area regarding added money.

But in this case to tell the players your checks will be mailed out next week is something I personally have never heard of before.

Dudley

 

[justnum]

If the USPPA is the first to fall to the green eye in this batch, who is next?

 

[n10spool]

As someone previously noted, Folsom is in Sacremento County; so is the corporate address - 183 Oxburough Drive, Folsom, CA. As another person speculated, it is a residential address.

It appears to be owned by a Mr. Kenneth Caruthers - "appears to be" as the data I'm looking at may be incorrect or not current. Also, a Mr. Ken Caruthers is listed as the administrative and technical contact for the usppa.org domain, but the address given is "in care of" Network Solutions' Drums, PA., address.

Ken is strickly the guy that inputs all data for the usppa score sheets. He has no word in how the usppa runs or how money is dispensed.

What I find amusing is only 5 or 6 poster on this topic were even at the tournament the rest are are just riding on the shirt tails wanting to be the first to lead the mutiny against another promoter good or bad. For what could have been a simple mistake..

No one has talked about the free ride in the poker tournament or the chance for a seat in wsop. Ccarl Wilson took 7 place for roughly $2000 which he did get paid on the spot,on top of what he will get paid from 2cusion promotions for 2nd place in the usppa tournament.

I'm still eating popcorn and laughing @ the railbirds and coattail riders,
Some have made great post others have no clue but interesting in all that has been said.

Craig

 

[cabilliardclub]

Ken is strickly the guy that inputs all data for the usppa score sheets. He has no word in how the usppa runs or how money is dispensed.

What I find amusing is only 5 or 6 poster on this topic were even at the tournament the rest are are just riding on the shirt tails wanting to be the first to lead the mutiny against another promoter good or bad. For what could have been a simple mistake..

No one has talked about the free ride in the poker tournament or the chance for a seat in wsop. Ccarl Wilson took 7 place for roughly $2000 which he did get paid on the spot,on top of what he will get paid from 2cusion promotions for 2nd place in the usppa tournament.

I'm still eating popcorn and laughing @ the railbirds and coattail riders,
Some have made great post others have no clue but interesting in all that has been said.

Craig

craig,

You know as well as I do that this was no simple mistake!!!!!

Lets put it this way, I hire you to do 10 of my tables, then after you are finished and worked your ass off. I tell you that I will pay you next week , only to hold you out for weeks on end, yet I benefit from the tables you worked on for free. Point is do not run something if you do not have the money to support it.

Hope to see you this weekend, its been ahwhile.

Chris

 

[TATE]

Ken is strickly the guy that inputs all data for the usppa score sheets. He has no word in how the usppa runs or how money is dispensed.

What I find amusing is only 5 or 6 poster on this topic were even at the tournament the rest are are just riding on the shirt tails wanting to be the first to lead the mutiny against another promoter good or bad. For what could have been a simple mistake..

No one has talked about the free ride in the poker tournament or the chance for a seat in wsop. Ccarl Wilson took 7 place for roughly $2000 which he did get paid on the spot,on top of what he will get paid from 2cusion promotions for 2nd place in the usppa tournament.

I'm still eating popcorn and laughing @ the railbirds and coattail riders,
Some have made great post others have no clue but interesting in all that has been said.

Craig

Craig,

I would not trivialize this when a thread has almost 17,000 views from among the most vocal pool players around, and it's nearly 100% negative against your organization.

We're not just railbirds. We're potential customers. It's not just the lack of a prize fund being paid. It's the lack of response.

Chris

 

[justnum]

Maybe the players should be thankful they don't have to go to court over this. Or they don't have to go to civil claims litigation over this. It would be better if they could just fire an adviser because of overstepping boundaries.

One of those no harm no damage things, just put it back before you leave type deals. Those are things the players should be thankful for.

Unless you are not a sociopath and actually value business negotiations. Then its a hardline of breaching your "word" and the only people stopping you from being exiled is the people you did business with.

 

[n10spool]

craig,

You know as well as I do that this was no simple mistake!!!!!

Lets put it this way, I hire you to do 10 of my tables, then after you are finished and worked your ass off. I tell you that I will pay you next week , only to hold you out for weeks on end, yet I benefit from the tables you worked on for free. Point is do not run something if you do not have the money to support it.

Hope to see you this weekend, its been ahwhile.

Chris

trust me I know i set up all 16 tables with some other people and we saw no money all of a sudden it was volunteer work. So I lost more then 1st and 2nd combined I already wrote it off plus we worked out a deal. But in the long run I made new friends and had one of the best times in a tournament on the west coast in several years. Not to make fun @ other promoters but the Peppermill as a lot more to offer then the Sands ever will.

I still set up tables for him time to time and help out on some other things but the USPPA his he's sole project.

Tony doesn't want me to stand up for him. I used to not like the guy for years from what others had told me but in the last year we finaly sat down and talked he has a wealth of knowledge and we get along great know except for this large speedbumb so to say. I think this year you will see a new Tony and things should be 200% better @ the next tournament.

Tony has called players he still owes money to to see a check in the next 2 weeks to 1-2 months this is as a phone call sunday night to a player that had not been paid in the top 5 spots. In the begining I know most of the problem but now I have no clue till we set down next week and talk about it.

I was planning on coming down to Mountain View.

 

[cabilliardclub]

trust me I know i set up all 16 tables with some other people and we saw no money all of a sudden it was volunteer work. So I lost more then 1st and 2nd combined I already wrote it off plus we worked out a deal. But in the long run I made new friends and had one of the best times in a tournament on the west coast in several years. Not to make fun @ other promoters but the Peppermill as a lot more to offer then the Sands ever will.

I still set up tables for him time to time and help out on some other things but the USPPA his he's sole project.

Tony doesn't want me to stand up for him. I used to not like the guy for years from what others had told me but in the last year we finaly sat down and talked he has a wealth of knowledge and we get along great know except for this large speedbumb so to say. I think this year you will see a new Tony and things should be 200% better @ the next tournament.

Tony has called players he still owes money to to see a check in the next 2 weeks to 1-2 months this is as a phone call sunday night to a player that had not been paid in the top 5 spots. In the begining I know most of the problem but now I have no clue till we set down next week and talk about it.

I was planning on coming down to Mountain View.

I hope you are carefull!!! sometimes playing with fire will burn you. As you know Tony tends to treat friends different the the normal public. Glad you had a good time and hope we all have a good year, starting this weekend.

 

[RackemBilliards]

Ignore list?

That post reminds of something about people with real money and real reputations on the line.

The fast track portion of the story is the players got paid but over an extended period of time, which also worked in favor or promoting the tour and creating BUZZ.

In relation to the USPPA Reno event maybe a little cousin of the one I can't stop recalling because of how great the times were, the girls, the lighting, the film production everything was first class and the celebs.

There was once staff for changing the score. Gorgeous staff. She would put most newly legal pre-preggers babes to shame. If she just bats here eyes at you it is like being stopped by a freight train. I'd wait for that train frequently. I am not talking about some computer operator pushing buttons for a display board. I am talking about a living woman that would get in front of everyone and let the score be known. I liked knowing the score. Sometimes I would read but had to read slowly as if she had a mystical power that reduced my ability to read.

Well, counting this latest dumpster fire of unreadable babble, that makes 76 posts by you in this one thread. 76! Had you ever even heard of the USPPA before this thread? Mark Griffin is the most respected tournament promoter in the country (love that the U.S.Open 1pkt is back in Vegas by the way:smile and his payouts have, to my knowledge at least, NEVER been in question. You're doing way more harm than good with that crap. I realize that I am new here and don't have 3000+ posts. I don't even know what the 'ignore list' is that a previous poster referred to. God willing, I'll find it before #77.

 

[nfty9er]

This info is a riot considering, Did ya all know?

Tony is advertising for next year on his website.
The Pacific Rim Billiard Expo, for 2011.

Reno Open, $25,000 added
Simonis Tour Championship(whatever that is), $25,000 added
USPPA , $15.000 added
and last but not least
The 2 Cushion Club Challenge, $40,000 added

Send in your entry early so he can pay out this years winners.

 

[bumpypickle]

What the hell?

Ken is strickly the guy that inputs all data for the usppa score sheets. He has no word in how the usppa runs or how money is dispensed.

What I find amusing is only 5 or 6 poster on this topic were even at the tournament the rest are are just riding on the shirt tails wanting to be the first to lead the mutiny against another promoter good or bad. For what could have been a simple mistake..

No one has talked about the free ride in the poker tournament or the chance for a seat in wsop. Ccarl Wilson took 7 place for roughly $2000 which he did get paid on the spot,on top of what he will get paid from 2cusion promotions for 2nd place in the usppa tournament.

I'm still eating popcorn and laughing @ the railbirds and coattail riders,
Some have made great post others have no clue but interesting in all that has been said.

Craig

Here is some advice, buy a couple of copies of "How to win friends and influence people". 1 for you and 1 for Tony. I've heard of people being clueless but this takes the cake. Nice post.

 

[bumpypickle]

trust me I know i set up all 16 tables with some other people and we saw no money all of a sudden it was volunteer work. So I lost more then 1st and 2nd combined I already wrote it off plus we worked out a deal. But in the long run I made new friends and had one of the best times in a tournament on the west coast in several years. Not to make fun @ other promoters but the Peppermill as a lot more to offer then the Sands ever will.

I still set up tables for him time to time and help out on some other things but the USPPA his he's sole project.

Tony doesn't want me to stand up for him. I used to not like the guy for years from what others had told me but in the last year we finaly sat down and talked he has a wealth of knowledge and we get along great know except for this large speedbumb so to say. I think this year you will see a new Tony and things should be 200% better @ the next tournament.

Tony has called players he still owes money to to see a check in the next 2 weeks to 1-2 months this is as a phone call sunday night to a player that had not been paid in the top 5 spots. In the begining I know most of the problem but now I have no clue till we set down next week and talk about it.

I was planning on coming down to Mountain View.

Wow, an independently wealthy table mechanic that just writes off almost $10,000 worth of revenue and it doesn't seem to bother him. Give me a break man.

 

[FranCrimi]

He would have to interfere with an existing contract with the intention of harming USPPA. So if someone went to Peppermill and induced them to cancel a contract, for example, for the (malicious) purpose of harming USPPA, that would be the situation. It might have civil liability if damages could be proven and the intent were malicious. This would be similar to slander or libel, very difficult to prove.

That being said, Tony and the USPPA aren't going to be suing anybody if they can't pay the winners. They are obviously hurting. I just think this is a tough business and money must be really tight for them. I am confident if the money were there, it would be paid immediately.

Looking back, I am glad they cancelled the Reno Open because it would have been an even bigger mess. I hope USPPA recovers. For the record, I've never sued anybody and don't ever plan on it.

Chris

Yes, I believe the specific legal term for what you're describing is Tortuous Interference. Chris, you'd be surprised at all the backstabbing that goes on behind the scenes on behalf of certain promoters. It's disgusting. I have direct information that in a few instances a some promotors were damaged by other promoters contacting their host venue, trying to offer the venue a "better deal" to basically steal the venue from under them.

This is what you're up against if you somehow manage to secure a good event and a good deal for a tournament. The wolves will be on your tail every step of the way. That's because the wolves are desperate, IMO, because this industry is so lean right now. But that's no excuse for trying to sabotage other promoters. It's just plain wrong.

 

[cabilliardclub]

Yes, I believe the specific legal term for what you're describing is Tortuous Interference. Chris, you'd be surprised at all the backstabbing that goes on behind the scenes on behalf of certain promoters. It's disgusting. I have direct information that in a few instances a some promotors were damaged by other promoters contacting their host venue, trying to offer the venue a "better deal" to basically steal the venue from under them.

This is what you're up against if you somehow manage to secure a good event and a good deal for a tournament. The wolves will be on your tail every step of the way. That's because the wolves are desperate, IMO, because this industry is so lean right now. But that's no excuse for trying to sabotage other promoters. It's just plain wrong.

Fran,

You are correct, but that is business!!!! This happens all over the world every day. If you have a plan and you are honost and have respect you can survive in this cut throat world. Making up added money and not having it day of, certainly is a recipe for failure. We all make up what we think happened, but until the true facts come out and that can be done by only 1 person, we will never know.

I know this forum is fun for some, but for the winners of the tournament this is reality. I do hope all get what is coming to them.

Chris