pharaoh68 said:
GASP!
Value of a Cue?
- Thread starter Hierovision
- Start date
GASP!
pharaoh68
Banned
Bishop said:
Being a Texan has very little to do with it. I believe the point that was being made is that you are acting like an ass and the poster who claimed that that not all Texans are like you does not want the rest of the world to think that ALL Texans act like asses... just you.
As for being confrontational, I am every bit as confrontational as you so if its a battle of wits you're looking for, step right up my friend. Based on everything I've read in your posts thus far, I'll win that battle every time!!!
Bishop said:
A bit childish? Don't sell yourself short there Bishop. This is enormously childish. In fact, for a moment or two, I even wondered if you may have been a 10 year old hiding using his daddy's computer. Anyway, to say that there is no real value or fact behind what buddha or JimBo has to say just proves your own ignorance. Both have an extensive amount of knowledge about cues, especially JimBo. His opinion is rooted heavily in fact.
Bishop said:
Some cuemakers choose not to post here for those very reasons. Others choose not to because they don't care as much about what people are saying and prefer to focus on their craft. Some are just plain too busy working. Regardless, this is a forum for people to share their opinions. If you don;t like someone's opinion, that is fine. But that does NOT mean that he or she is not entitled to it.
Bishop said:
And for what its worth, I think we all know what cuemaker you're talking about. No one destroyed his sale. He sold the cue for what he was originally asking for it. If another potential buyer had retracted his bid then perhaps he was right to do so. NOT because the cue was or wasn't worth the asking price but because that potential buyer did some research into the matter and realized that some people with a bit of knowledge on cuemaking and cuemakers (as well as how their products fair on the open market) shed some light on a few issues for that individual.
In short Bishop, I will say to you what I have said to numerous other posters before. I enjoy a good spirited deabte as much as the next. Perhaps even moreso than the next guy. But maybe you should sit the next couple of plays out there buddy because you do yourself more harm than good.
Nope I won't sit by and just watch. Its just your small little group of babies that don't like what I'm saying. I said earlier I'm stooping to your level, I never said it wasn't childish. Judging by my PMs the rest are fine with me. When that many members voice support I know I'm right. Had it been the other way around I'd be thinking twice about acting this way.
I was refering to 4 specific cue makers of which none are Varney, two of which I didn't even know lurked these boards. So I don't see how you win. They were pretty specific about their reasons about not coming around and posting regularly. They also voiced their support for me more than a few times.
A spirited debate is great at the right time in the right place. Too bad you guys have trouble with that. I'm going to keep pressing on with this issue as long as I kept getting PMs of support. Guess you'll just have to deal with it.
I was refering to 4 specific cue makers of which none are Varney, two of which I didn't even know lurked these boards. So I don't see how you win. They were pretty specific about their reasons about not coming around and posting regularly. They also voiced their support for me more than a few times.
A spirited debate is great at the right time in the right place. Too bad you guys have trouble with that. I'm going to keep pressing on with this issue as long as I kept getting PMs of support. Guess you'll just have to deal with it.
Okay, since this got lost in the Bishop responses, here goes again:
One of the comments in this thread reminded me of a post I made a year or so ago about cue forgeries - it received, let's see...zero responses. Made me wonder if that was a taboo subject. I asked if elite cue-maker cues were ever forged. It makes sense that this happens just because of the $ opportunity for thieves - they do it with art, rare coins, etc., so why not cues?
According to some of the arguments on this thread about cue 'value' premiums associated with the cues of some cue-makers (Hercek, etc.), you would be led to believe that if a cue-maker could forge an expert's cues so good that he could re-sell it as the real thing, then he could be making his own cues, with his own name on them, and getting the same money. Do you believe this is true? (My opinion is a strong 'no').
One of the comments in this thread reminded me of a post I made a year or so ago about cue forgeries - it received, let's see...zero responses. Made me wonder if that was a taboo subject. I asked if elite cue-maker cues were ever forged. It makes sense that this happens just because of the $ opportunity for thieves - they do it with art, rare coins, etc., so why not cues?
According to some of the arguments on this thread about cue 'value' premiums associated with the cues of some cue-makers (Hercek, etc.), you would be led to believe that if a cue-maker could forge an expert's cues so good that he could re-sell it as the real thing, then he could be making his own cues, with his own name on them, and getting the same money. Do you believe this is true? (My opinion is a strong 'no').
buddha162 said:
we'll maybe your right again roger but where i get my info is from the maker himself and dealers that used to sell his cues here and abroad. i know his cues have been sold by dealers like "Lucky" since the early 90's. over these last years his production was about 1/8 the number of cues southwest makes a year so i guess by numbers alone there is a greater chance for more of them (southwests) to end up over there. anyway it doesn't matter they're both fine cues and i'm sure people are enjoying them anywhere they live. by the way joe isn't selling more cues. he tapered off in the last 2 or 3 years, has since closed his shop and is as we speak taking a break from the world of cues. if and when he get's the itch again the cue world will be a much better place imo.
lol I had to read that a few times to see what you are saying. You would think if a cue maker were talented enough to replicate or match quality of a well known or highly touted cue maker he could bring the same money but I agree with what you are saying. It would never happen. Name recognition means everything. I believe when it comes to value and resale quality comes after name recognition. Couple that with the trolls and bashers its tough to make a name these days.runscott said:
With that said I've tried tons of custom cues and I've taken chances recently with a select few I've never played with or even heard of. There are a couple of cue makers I've really grown to enjoy and swear by, but none are big name players. Matter of fact Scruggs was only one of the few big name cue makers I've enjoyed beyond just looks and style.
runscott said:
start a new thread.
(i'm staying off of this one.)
Can't you just like... hijack THEIR threads instead of every thread they post in? I mean it might be worth it in the long run but not MY thread! Noooooo!!! 
I'm pretty sure this was said many times by those you consider bashers. I understand however that there is history of dislike, and the method of presenting the information is the bigger objection.Bishop said:
There have been a multitude of new, relativly unknown cuemakers who have successfully made a name for themselves because of forums like these. So, there's something to be said about presentation and marketing yourself. Do it well, the internet works better than anything. Do it not so well, and the cliff comes quickly.
Fred
"Can't we all just get along?"
I rented "Nework" the other day - can't believe I never saw that before. Now I know where this quote came from: "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm Not going to take it anymore!"BrooklynJay said:
(Scott - hijacking thread again, but in less antagonistic direction)
Varney Cues said:For some reason Jumbo you feel the need to quote me from 2 days ago.
I think you may have made a typo with regards to my name, unless of course you have resorted to name calling which is very childish and quite typical when logic escapes you. As far as the 2 day thing goes, I post as I read the thread, sorry I can't keep up in real time, but I have other priorities in life.
Jim
I'm still trying to figure out the importance of all this. The market takes care of itself. People won't pay what they won't pay, and that's that. I hope to one day make some quality cues, but that is a good 10 years down the line... and that's assuming I don't have any kids by then. Add kids and make it 20 years from now 
Taking what I've learned from this forum, I'm not saying anything beyond the specs/price when I advertise... hah
Taking what I've learned from this forum, I'm not saying anything beyond the specs/price when I advertise... hah
Voodoo Daddy
One Pocket 101
JimBo said:
He is arrogant, quite pompus and very overwhelming but ya know I like the Big Galoot and his lil sidekick, whats-his-name...the cue author. JimBo is one of the very few I met from the internet that just says it...kinna like me but not as good lookin'
Public Board
I have no problem with cuemakers trying to sell their cues on here, BUT when they do, they become open to comments and questions about those products. THIS IS A PUBLIC BOARD, NOT THEIR PERSONAL WEBSITE. Besides, it doesn't matter where, if I was interested in a cue, but thought the price was too high, I would tell him that, on here, or to his face. And I am sure it would not be the first time they were told that either.
Why some of you guys go out and spend 3-5k on a cue, when you can get the same cue from a good, but less famous cuemaker for 1/2 or less
of the price, I will never know. I had Bob Owen offer me a cue that had a $1,600 price tag originally, and he has been playing with it for a 1 1/2 years, and he made me a REAL GOOD OFFER. The cue is beautiful, ebony, ivory, ivory inlays all lined with brass (I thought it was gold). Bleack leather on it with his version of the 314-1 shaft. When I immediately saw it, I thought $2,200 stick, so I was surprised by the $1,600 tag, and really surprised at what he offered it to me for, but we have been friends 30 years. I like looking at Ebony and Ivory cues, but never really had a desire to own one - kind of the same way with Black cars (but I did have a Deep Violet '96 Mustang GT tricked out that I loved).
But, I guess this is just me. My Mom is the best bargain shopper in the world or close to it, and some of it rubbed off on me. I want bang for my buck, and with Bob Owen, I get bang for the buck, and it looks like you get it with Jeff Olney too. And I am sure, there are other fine cuemakers out there that the value exceeds the price, but I also think some of these famous cuemakers might be a little in the clouds too. I have seen some cues from famous cuemakers that are butt ugly with a big price tag.
I have no problem with cuemakers trying to sell their cues on here, BUT when they do, they become open to comments and questions about those products. THIS IS A PUBLIC BOARD, NOT THEIR PERSONAL WEBSITE. Besides, it doesn't matter where, if I was interested in a cue, but thought the price was too high, I would tell him that, on here, or to his face. And I am sure it would not be the first time they were told that either.
Why some of you guys go out and spend 3-5k on a cue, when you can get the same cue from a good, but less famous cuemaker for 1/2 or less
of the price, I will never know. I had Bob Owen offer me a cue that had a $1,600 price tag originally, and he has been playing with it for a 1 1/2 years, and he made me a REAL GOOD OFFER. The cue is beautiful, ebony, ivory, ivory inlays all lined with brass (I thought it was gold). Bleack leather on it with his version of the 314-1 shaft. When I immediately saw it, I thought $2,200 stick, so I was surprised by the $1,600 tag, and really surprised at what he offered it to me for, but we have been friends 30 years. I like looking at Ebony and Ivory cues, but never really had a desire to own one - kind of the same way with Black cars (but I did have a Deep Violet '96 Mustang GT tricked out that I loved).
But, I guess this is just me. My Mom is the best bargain shopper in the world or close to it, and some of it rubbed off on me. I want bang for my buck, and with Bob Owen, I get bang for the buck, and it looks like you get it with Jeff Olney too. And I am sure, there are other fine cuemakers out there that the value exceeds the price, but I also think some of these famous cuemakers might be a little in the clouds too. I have seen some cues from famous cuemakers that are butt ugly with a big price tag.
TellsItLikeItIs said:
I added to the thread with my opinion, many people felt it was in perfect taste to jump in and add what a great value that cue was why is it so bad to give a counter more realistic opinion. And BTW not to gloat but in the long run I have plenty of proof to back up my side of that argument.
Jim PS Dallas Cowboy fan for what it's worth.