VEPS V - Skill and Specialty Shots

dr_dave

dr_dave

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FYI, I just completed Disc V of the Video Encyclopedia of Pool Shots (VEPS) series. Complete information, including demo clips and a complete list of shots, can be found here:

Here are direct links to the video clips:

Please check out the video clips and let us (me and Tom Ross) know if you have any feedback (positive or negative), suggestions, or questions.

FYI, information on the entire VEPS series can be found here:

Tom and I look forward to your comments.

Thanks,
Dave

PS: FYI to people who have already ordered, or plan to order, Disc IV (Banks, Kicks, and Advanced Shots) and/or Disc V:
Disc IV is going out in the mail today, and Disc V is currently expected to go out on May 12.
 
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Congrats on finishing it, it's an awesome piece of work. My order will be forthcoming...
 
Neil said:
Great work as always Dave! I bet you are very glad to finally be done!
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I'm not totally done yet. I still need to make some more edits after my reviewers finish with it. Then I have to get it manufactured (replicated) and mailed out. But you are right ... it feels really good to be very close to being totally done. I got a "second wind" working on Disc V. Disc IV ran me down ... it was the most work of all of the Discs. But as soon as I started the production work on Disc V, the "light at the end of the tunnel" gave me new energy.

Neil said:
One thing I wanted to point out- in the impossible cut shots section, the bank cross side, and the cut back to the pocket from the spot CAN be made without rigging the shot. I know you mentioned that, I just wanted to reiterate it since several posters have shown the shot being performed on here. And, when they did it, the shots weren't rigged to make them a little easier. They may not have been in your video either, I don't know.
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Good point. These shots can certainly be made without cling. We did add a chalk smudge to the ball contact point to make these two shots a little easier ... although, they were still very difficult. Maybe if Tom and I had worked on Disc V first instead of last, we would have been more patient to wait for chalk-free good hits. :sorry:

Regards,
Dave
 
masse tip hardness?

dr_dave said:
NV B.88 - Masse shot technique, from VEPS V
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On the DVD, we changed "soft tip" to "good tip," because we don't think a soft tip is a requirement for good masse. What do you guys think? Does a softer tip help with masse shots, in general, or for specific shot types? And can the tip be too hard? For example, a phenolic tip doesn't seem to work very well, mostly because it miscues more easily ... I think.

Thanks,
Dave
 
Neil said:
dr_dave said:
NV B.88 - Masse shot technique, from VEPS V

On the DVD, we changed "soft tip" to "good tip," because we don't think a soft tip is a requirement for good masse. What do you guys think? Does a softer tip help with masse shots, in general, or for specific shot types? And can the tip be too hard? For example, a phenolic tip doesn't seem to work very well, mostly because it miscues more easily ... I think.
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I don't usually do trick shots, so my masse shots are game shots. I have a very hard LePro tip, and it works just fine for masse's.
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Thanks Neil. My experience has been the same. I'm curious to hear what others think also, especially the trick-shot artist types.

Regards,
Dave
 
soft tip for masse???

dr_dave said:
NV B.88 - Masse shot technique, from VEPS V
On the DVD, we changed "soft tip" to "good tip," because we don't think a soft tip is a requirement for good masse. What do you guys think? Does a softer tip help with masse shots, in general, or for specific shot types? And can the tip be too hard? For example, a phenolic tip doesn't seem to work very well, mostly because it miscues more easily ... I think.
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Anybody else have thoughts or experience on this topic?

Thanks,
Dave
 
Might be useful to note that Florian "Venom" Kohler of trick shot fame uses Kamui and LePro tips for masse (which he mentioned in the past day or two in another thread). From what I understand these are at the harder end of the spectrum.

I don't know enough about the physics involved but my feeling is that most of these guys are getting plenty of chalk on the tip, and that maybe makes the hardness of the tip less of a factor. All the ball sees is a nice thick cushion of chalk particles. Maybe those who masse a lot prefer a harder tip just because they're beating it up so much that they don't want to have to replace it every other month.
 
The medium is really the best it gives enough to hold up and it holds up enough to not give out.

I like most tips for the masse the problem is the durability not the friction. A soft tip would be fine for about 99% of the masse shots you have seen on the internet. It's only the big stuff that hurt's tips. Like for instance I can go through a lepro in less than 5 swings of the cue. Most real hard tips break within 20 swings. The ones in the middle take hundreds of swings to break. I can masse pretty far with phenolic not as far as with leather, but it can work.

I hope this helps.
 
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CreeDo said:
Might be useful to note that Florian "Venom" Kohler of trick shot fame uses Kamui and LePro tips for masse (which he mentioned in the past day or two in another thread). From what I understand these are at the harder end of the spectrum.
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Thanks for the info.

CreeDo said:
I don't know enough about the physics involved but my feeling is that most of these guys are getting plenty of chalk on the tip, and that maybe makes the hardness of the tip less of a factor. All the ball sees is a nice thick cushion of chalk particles. Maybe those who masse a lot prefer a harder tip just because they're beating it up so much that they don't want to have to replace it every other month.
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Excellent points. As long as the tip holds chalk and grabs the CB, the hardness shouldn't be a problem. And as you point out, a harder tip might hold up better to the "abuse."

Also, a harder tip is more "efficient" and might tend to deliver more speed and spin to the ball (per HSV B.42).

Regards,
Dave
 
JamisonNeu said:
The medium is really the best it gives enough to hold up and it holds up enough to not give out.

I like most tips for the masse the problem is the durability not the friction. A soft tip would be fine for about 99% of the masse shots you have seen on the internet. It's only the big stuff that hurt's tips. Like for instance I can go through a lepro in less than 5 swings of the cue. Most real hard tips break within 20 swings. The ones in the middle take hundreds of swings to break. I can masse pretty far with phenolic not as far as with leather, but it can work.

I hope this helps.
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Thanks Jamison. That's good info!

Regards,
Dave
 
jdxprs said:
thats a nice table in the videos! what kind is it?
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It's an 8' Connely. Sometimes the pockets reject balls (off the tight-leather backs); but otherwise, I like it. The pockets could be much "tighter," but the big holes make filming go faster ... less attempts are required on the tough shots.

jdxprs said:
what kind of cloth?
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Sorry, but I don't know. The cloth came with the table. Whatever it is, it isn't very slick or fast (compared to Simonis). I also like this because it makes you work a little to get the balls around the table.

Regards,
Dave
 
last bump

Any more comments, suggestions, questions concerning the new video clips? Disc V isn't finalized yet, so I can still make some changes.

Regards,
Dave
dr_dave said:
FYI, I just completed Disc V of the Video Encyclopedia of Pool Shots (VEPS) series. Complete information, including demo clips and a complete list of shots, can be found here:

Here are direct links to the video clips:

Please check out the video clips and let us (me and Tom Ross) know if you have any feedback (positive or negative), suggestions, or questions.

FYI, information on the entire VEPS series can be found here:

Tom and I look forward to your comments.

Thanks,
Dave

PS: FYI to people who have already ordered, or plan to order, Disc IV (Banks, Kicks, and Advanced Shots) and/or Disc V:
Disc IV is going out in the mail today, and Disc V is currently expected to go out on May 12.
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dr_dave said:
It's an 8' Connely. Sometimes the pockets reject balls (off the tight-leather backs); but otherwise, I like it. The pockets could be much "tighter," but the big holes make filming go faster ... less attempts are required on the tough shots.

Sorry, but I don't know. The cloth came with the table. Whatever it is, it isn't very slick or fast (compared to Simonis). I also like this because it makes you work a little to get the balls around the table.

Regards,
Dave
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thanks for the info. don't think i've ever played on a connely. like i said, looks really nice!
 
dr_dave said:
I got e-mails and PMs from a couple of people concerning this video. People thought we should discuss the wing ball and common patterns for other balls. We do on the DVD. We didn't want to put all of the "secrets" on the Internet.

Regards,
Dave
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Ah so it's totally acceptable for you to withhold "secrets" and not post them all to the internet but as soon as I don't spoon-feed the world and post every detail about CTE I get vilified?

I think you should post everything about your racking info and also why it works. :) :) I'm trying to understand all this stuff.

AZB is a very political place - lots of double standards around here. But that's ok - I'll still get you drunk when I see ya. I kinda like my red reps for not posting details. It makes me happy to know you get green for doing the same.:thumbup:

Dave
 
I would post the remaining secrets, but I'm too full and lazy from constantly being spoon-fed all of the amazing CTE info, and the "visual intelligence" region of my brain is quite overwhelmed. :lol:

I look forward to meeting you some day. I'm sure we will get along great.

Catch you later,
Dave
SpiderWebComm said:
Ah so it's totally acceptable for you to withhold "secrets" and not post them all to the internet but as soon as I don't spoon-feed the world and post every detail about CTE I get vilified?

I think you should post everything about your racking info and also why it works. :) :) I'm trying to understand all this stuff.

AZB is a very political place - lots of double standards around here. But that's ok - I'll still get you drunk when I see ya. I kinda like my red reps for not posting details. It makes me happy to know you get green for doing the same.:thumbup:

Dave
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