Vernon Elliott's impossible cross-side bank
- Thread starter Bob Jewett
- Start date
never seen elevation
I never seen Vernon elevate, per say, on these shots. Certainly not 30 degrees. He did use a long bridge. But since he used extreme, low outside english, there was a slight angle of elevation. Incidentally, I have made both shots many times. I do require many tries. When I brought the shot back to Bensingers from Johnston City we all practiced the shot for months thereafter.
the Beard
Tennesseejoe said:
I never seen Vernon elevate, per say, on these shots. Certainly not 30 degrees. He did use a long bridge. But since he used extreme, low outside english, there was a slight angle of elevation. Incidentally, I have made both shots many times. I do require many tries. When I brought the shot back to Bensingers from Johnston City we all practiced the shot for months thereafter.
the Beard
scottycoyote said:
Only half the time? You better work on your stroke.
I explained this shot to the locals today in Santa Monica at House of Billiards and told them Vernon Elliott would shoot it as a prop bet. No one believed it was possible. One person said the only way the shot could be made was if the object ball got a kiss off the cueball after the first contact and then went cross side. I'm withholding names to protect the incredulous.
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PoolBum said:
No one up there ever made a bank shot anyway, so how would they know. lol
No only could vernon make it, he could also bank well past the oppisite side pocket. Truely amazing and the cut shots he would make might even be more impressive.
Vernon's cross bank
Vernon did not elevate his cue on this shot. He used the same stroke with this shot as he used playing all games; long bridge and held the cue stick at the very end. About 5-6 years ago and just before he suffered a stroke I set this shot up for him to shoot for over an hour. Amazingly he would on occasion overbank the shot! Vernon told me about getting Eddie Taylor with this bank. Taylor tried the shot a few times and even with his skill didn't come close. He declared the shot impossible and bet Vernon $300 he couldn't make it within the 10 tries Vernon asked for. On Vernon's first try he overbanked the ball and Taylor asked out of his bet but Vernon wouldn't let him out. He made the ball on his fourth try and collected the money. Vernon never bet on making the shot in one try and usually asked for 20-30 tries. He said he was confident in making it in five tries but the more shots it took not only increased his odds but made the shot look difficult enough that he could still get bets. I have heard of a few others making the shot but I have never seen anyone else make it. He used no trick or gimmicks. He could just do things few others could duplicate.
Vernon did not elevate his cue on this shot. He used the same stroke with this shot as he used playing all games; long bridge and held the cue stick at the very end. About 5-6 years ago and just before he suffered a stroke I set this shot up for him to shoot for over an hour. Amazingly he would on occasion overbank the shot! Vernon told me about getting Eddie Taylor with this bank. Taylor tried the shot a few times and even with his skill didn't come close. He declared the shot impossible and bet Vernon $300 he couldn't make it within the 10 tries Vernon asked for. On Vernon's first try he overbanked the ball and Taylor asked out of his bet but Vernon wouldn't let him out. He made the ball on his fourth try and collected the money. Vernon never bet on making the shot in one try and usually asked for 20-30 tries. He said he was confident in making it in five tries but the more shots it took not only increased his odds but made the shot look difficult enough that he could still get bets. I have heard of a few others making the shot but I have never seen anyone else make it. He used no trick or gimmicks. He could just do things few others could duplicate.
i wonder if you place the object ball where the shim meets the rubber on this shot... i'm sure its only makeable on certain tables...
As stated several times, the object ball is on the fully flat part of the cushion and doesn't catch the point of the side pocket at all on the shot.branpureza said:
extreme spin
Using extreme spin the Qball just grazes the face of the object ball and the favoring spin pulls the Qball away from the kiss.
the Beard
Bigtruck said:
Using extreme spin the Qball just grazes the face of the object ball and the favoring spin pulls the Qball away from the kiss.
the Beard
Lol ...
I am a little ornery, and a week ago last Friday night, I told a friend of mine and my biggest competitor in the weekly tournaments the Vern Elliot shot.
He is what I call a 'Rubic' player (meaning he can figure out anything and get out), and I knew it would bug him if he couldn't do it.
He tried it several times, with no luck. And as the tournament went, he played me the first match, and I beat him ..... LOL
I am a little ornery, and a week ago last Friday night, I told a friend of mine and my biggest competitor in the weekly tournaments the Vern Elliot shot.
He is what I call a 'Rubic' player (meaning he can figure out anything and get out), and I knew it would bug him if he couldn't do it.
He tried it several times, with no luck. And as the tournament went, he played me the first match, and I beat him ..... LOL
I saw this shot made tonight by Greg Sullivan. The table was a tight pro cut diamond with cloth that was about a month old. It took him less than 25 attempts to make it and the object ball was 1 inch away from the side pocket. Truman Hogue also witnessed this shot. He said it was the first time he had ever seen it made.
Banks
Banned
Bend it like Beckham
People seem to underestimate spin transfer.. When I get a good 3-rail side bank, the ball straightens out very visibly, it's rail spin but pretty much the same idea. Cheating angles is a huge help, but it takes a nice hit to mix the speed and spin on certain shots. Turning a near straight shot to the rail into a 30-40 degree bank through traffic is a beautiful thing. My friends usually look like this afterwards -
or sometimes 
, but I'm mostly - 
People seem to underestimate spin transfer.. When I get a good 3-rail side bank, the ball straightens out very visibly, it's rail spin but pretty much the same idea. Cheating angles is a huge help, but it takes a nice hit to mix the speed and spin on certain shots. Turning a near straight shot to the rail into a 30-40 degree bank through traffic is a beautiful thing. My friends usually look like this afterwards -
or sometimes , but I'm mostly -
Some are so bold as to claim it doesn't exist. I attribute this to their limited experience. They should pay close attention to the Sky Masterson advice noted in another threadBanks said:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Guys_and_Dolls
-- see the part about the Jack of Spades.
Speaking of Runyon, there was a great reading of Runyon's story about Nicely Nicely Johnson's eating contest on Selected Shorts a month or so ago. I've never read Runyon but I think I'd like him.
So since this is such an amazing shot and since it is so coveted then why can't someone shoot a video of it and post it? It sounds like a bunch of guys can do it so I'm sure I will see it posted on video here real soon right? Course I won't be holding my breath.
I think I'll have time this weekend. Maybe I'll do Efren's impossible off-the-spot-one-pocket cut shot as well.Luxury said:
