VERY IMPORTANT NEWS - Red Circle OR Blue Circle ???

[OldHasBeen]

"THIS NEEDS TO BE STRIGHTENED OUT NOW"!

Can anyone please tell me WHY would anyone be playing with this Red Circle Cue Ball when it is UNDER SIZED to all the object balls?

Believe me - I know of what I speak.

I have played pool for over 44 years and the size & weight of the cue ball makes a HUGE difference in playing.

I didn't play seriously for a couple of years and when I started back I thought the reason I was banking & playing so bad was because of the Simonies Cloth that everyone had.

NO - I also noticed that everyone was playing with this red circle cue ball instead of the blue circle I had always used. I was told it is because it is a better & livelier ball, so now it is the standard. I assumed it was at least just as good until I couldn't figure out why my banks were so off.
I weighed (w/ diamond scale) & measured (w/ a wooden rack) the difference between the red circle and the object balls (centennial). Then I did the same with the blue circle.

"THE RED CIRCLE IS SMALLER & LIGHTER THAN THE OBJECT BALLS"!

HELLOOOOO! - This makes a Hugh difference in "The Hit"
When the center of the cue ball is meeting the center of an object ball and it isn't in the outer most extreme of the object balls circular edge -

We got problems, my friends. Yes, I said problems right here in River City. Now that starts with a P and it rhymes with T and that stands for TROUBLE!

So now I pull out my Old Blue Circle Cue Ball from my private set that I got from Harley Race years ago in Florida and guess what - It is exactly perfect in size and weight compared with the centennial object balls.

I start playing and within 15 min. I am playing & banking as though it is 1977.

This does not take a genius or mathematician to find out for yourself. All you have to do is take two object balls and put the red circle in the middle up against the rail. Now take a wooden rack or ruler and come over the top of all three balls.
THE CENTER BALL - THE RED CIRCLE - WILL STAY AS THE OBJECT BALLS MOVE AWAY.

Now do the same with the blue circle and you will find that all three leave the rail at the same time because they are all the same size.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN PLAYABILITY. THIS MUST GET OUT TO THE POOL WORLD - ALL RED CIRCLES MUST BE THROWN EITHER IN THE TRASH OR AT "OSAMA", A.S.A.P.

I can & will adapt to the many changes that have come along with the advancement of the game - Jump Cues, Better Cloth, Better Rakes, Cue Extensions, Etc., Etc.

BUT I WON'T ACCEPT OR USE ANY PRODUCT THAT CHANGES THE FUNDAMENTIALS.

There are WAY too many tools & toys that are introduced and promoted as being better just so someone can make a buck. I'm not against ANYONE making money unless it is at the expense of the game we love to play & watch.
TY - "NOW DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT"!

 

[drivermaker]

"THE RED CIRCLE IS SMALLER & LIGHTER THAN THE OBJECT BALLS"!

All you have to do is take two object balls and put the red circle in the middle up against the rail. Now take a wooden rack or ruler and come over the top of all three balls.
THE CENTER BALL - THE RED CIRCLE - WILL STAY AS THE OBJECT BALLS MOVE AWAY.

Now do the same with the blue circle and you will find that all three leave the rail at the same time because they are all the same size.

I don't find that to the the case with my Super Pro Aramith balls and a red circle. They're exactly the same size as I've done your test, however, it weights 5.85 oz. and the balls weigh 6.00. Maybe your egg was laid to early...

 

[Troy]

Maybe you compared a USED Red Circle CB to a NEW Blue Circle CB.
Age (and wear) does make a difference...

Troy

"THIS NEEDS TO BE STRIGHTENED OUT NOW"!

Can anyone please tell me WHY would anyone be playing with this Red Circle Cue Ball when it is UNDER SIZED to all the object balls?

Believe me - I know of what I speak.

I have played pool for over 44 years and the size & weight of the cue ball makes a HUGE difference in playing.

I didn't play seriously for a couple of years and when I started back I thought the reason I was banking & playing so bad was because of the Simonies Cloth that everyone had.

NO - I also noticed that everyone was playing with this red circle cue ball instead of the blue circle I had always used. I was told it is because it is a better & livelier ball, so now it is the standard. I assumed it was at least just as good until I couldn't figure out why my banks were so off.
I weighed (w/ diamond scale) & measured (w/ a wooden rack) the difference between the red circle and the object balls (centennial). Then I did the same with the blue circle.

"THE RED CIRCLE IS SMALLER & LIGHTER THAN THE OBJECT BALLS"!

HELLOOOOO! - This makes a Hugh difference in "The Hit"
When the center of the cue ball is meeting the center of an object ball and it isn't in the outer most extreme of the object balls circular edge -

We got problems, my friends. Yes, I said problems right here in River City. Now that starts with a P and it rhymes with T and that stands for TROUBLE!

So now I pull out my Old Blue Circle Cue Ball from my private set that I got from Harley Race years ago in Florida and guess what - It is exactly perfect in size and weight compared with the centennial object balls.

I start playing and within 15 min. I am playing & banking as though it is 1977.

This does not take a genius or mathematician to find out for yourself. All you have to do is take two object balls and put the red circle in the middle up against the rail. Now take a wooden rack or ruler and come over the top of all three balls.
THE CENTER BALL - THE RED CIRCLE - WILL STAY AS THE OBJECT BALLS MOVE AWAY.

Now do the same with the blue circle and you will find that all three leave the rail at the same time because they are all the same size.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN PLAYABILITY. THIS MUST GET OUT TO THE POOL WORLD - ALL RED CIRCLES MUST BE THROWN EITHER IN THE TRASH OR AT "OSAMA", A.S.A.P.

I can & will adapt to the many changes that have come along with the advancement of the game - Jump Cues, Better Cloth, Better Rakes, Cue Extensions, Etc., Etc.

BUT I WON'T ACCEPT OR USE ANY PRODUCT THAT CHANGES THE FUNDAMENTIALS.

There are WAY too many tools & toys that are introduced and promoted as being better just so someone can make a buck. I'm not against ANYONE making money unless it is at the expense of the game we love to play & watch.
TY - "NOW DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT"!

 

[Flex]

Seems to me that playability is a major difference between the red circle and blue circle balls. I find that the red circle balls draw better. At Chris's in Chicago one of the owners told me that people don't want to play with the blue circle balls, they ask for the red circle ones, and the owner told me they have to buy them separately. On the money tables you'll never see one of those blue circles... So, are the best players in Chicago, pros included, wrong on this? I doubt it...

 

[OldHasBeen]

Which Balls Are Used The Most?

I don't find that to the the case with my Super Pro Aramith balls and a red circle. They're exactly the same size as I've done your test, however, it weights 5.85 oz. and the balls weigh 6.00. Maybe your egg was laid to early...

Troy & Drivemaker
No - Just the oposite. The Red Circle was New & My Blue Circle is an old one from set back on the "80's.
Drivemaker - Maybe your right, I don't know. I was testing this on a set of centennial balls. Which is the most accepted, used or more popular, Centennial or Super Pro Aramith balls?
If you did the test and the Red Circle measures the same size as the Super Pro Aramith balls then I guess thats great for playing with them BUT I sure wouldn't want to be playing with centennial balls and a Red Circle Cue Ball.

 

[JoeyInCali]

My red circle is the same size as my Centennials.
The ones in the pool hall are smaller due to wear and cleaning.
I hate the cueball that comes with my Centennial balls ( blue circle).
I hate it. It's just too tough to play with. Too heavy. I understand it's the same weight as the Centennial balls.

 

[sjm]

I don't find that to the the case with my Super Pro Aramith balls and a red circle. They're exactly the same size as I've done your test, however, it weights 5.85 oz. and the balls weigh 6.00. Maybe your egg was laid to early...

Exactly right. The red circle confroms to the Aramith set of balls and not the centennials. I hate using a red circle if I'm playing with centennials.

 

[Zims Rack]

I have the Super Aramith balls and a Red Circle CB and the Super Aramith CB. I'll do a test tonight with both and see the difference, post results tonight or tomorrow.

OldHasBeen- call me tonight if you get the chance. I want to see how your "project" is coming along.

Thanks,
Zim

 

[Flex]

I notice when I'm stuck with using a blue circle ball after shooting a match with the red circles that the hit is totally different, the added weight throws off my shots, my aim when shooting with english has to be adjusted, and I need to stroke the cue ball more forcefully to draw the ball back the required distance. It changes the whole feel of the game... Give me the red circles any day...

 

[OldHasBeen]

Naturally a Red Circle Is Easier! But is it BETTER?

As far as that guy from Chicago - Who Knows why thet do what they do in Chicago?
I still can't figure out why Chicago has a National League Baseball Team.
OR DO THEY?
Cards are starting the play-offs right now, today - Against L.A. - How Is Slamming Sammy Doing About Now ???
As far as the Cue Ball Issue - Naturally any cue ball that is lighter and smaller than the object balls will be easier to draw - Remember the old Yellow Dots?
Poolrooms loved them because when the novice players came in, they could draw their cue ball. Never mind that the cue ball deflected wrong on a follow or came off the rail differently, as long as the dating public had more fun - That Is All That Mattered!
Now if there is a difference in Centennial Balls & Super Aramith Balls - I want to know which one is "THE BEST".
This is not up to opinions or even up for discussion.
The right & best ball should be determined by the height of the cushion from the bed. The right ball will & should come off the rail without ANY jump. The smaller ball will be pinched and therefore jump. The correct ball will meet the cushion just at or a hair below the point of contact and therefore there will a direct bounce without any loss of english or angle.
CAPEISH?

 

[drivermaker]

Now if there is a difference in Centennial Balls & Super Aramith Balls - I want to know which one is "THE BEST".

I think they're looked at as equals in quality by most, and probably used equally as often in tournaments. My understanding is, and I could be wrong, that the same factory makes both balls using the same materials and formula. The primary difference is the design on the balls. I actually like the looks of the Centennials better, but just never got around to springing for a set.

 

[Keith McCready]

I also noticed that everyone was playing with this red circle cue ball instead of the blue circle I had always used.

Tom, I would rather play with the blue circle myself. It sort of reminds me of a big cue ball on the bar table. Those red-circle cue balls are garbage, in my opinion.

There's certain players that grew up on the red circles, and it is the cue ball of their choice. I got into a conversation with Shawn Putnam about the red circle versus the blue circle, and he said since he grew up playing with the red circle, he's comfortable with it. It's all a matter of what you're used to, I guess.

There is a difference in the weight between the red circles and blue circles, and I'm always having to adjust my game because of it. If I had my choice, I'm with you, Tom. I'll go with the blue circle!

 

[Kerry Impson]

The right & best ball should be determined by the height of the cushion from the bed. The right ball will & should come off the rail without ANY jump. The smaller ball will be pinched and therefore jump. The correct ball will meet the cushion just at or a hair below the point of contact and therefore there will a direct bounce without any loss of english or angle.

I'm certainly no expert, but is it possible that there are very slight differences in the height of the rails on different tables, and therefore possible that there is no uniformly "right" set of balls (no pun intended)?

 

[hemicudas]

Tom, I would rather play with the blue circle myself. It sort of reminds me of a big cue ball on the bar table. Those red-circle cue balls are garbage, in my opinion.

There's certain players that grew up on the red circles, and it is the cue ball of their choice. I got into a conversation with Shawn Putnam about the red circle versus the blue circle, and he said since he grew up playing with the red circle, he's comfortable with it. It's all a matter of what you're used to, I guess.

There is a difference in the weight between the red circles and blue circles, and I'm always having to adjust my game because of it. If I had my choice, I'm with you, Tom. I'll go with the blue circle!

I'm with you, Keith. I think they should make it manditory that everyone had to play with a cue ball from an old United bar table. They could even fill the holes in a white ladies bowling ball and my friend, Keith would be the favorite to win all the tournaments. No one ever controlled that heavy ball better. Really got to have a "Stroke" to move those things around.

 

[OldHasBeen]

Keith - ? Ask Other Pro Players ?

Keith - How about you asking other Pro Players? You have the access and oportunity. No Big Deal but I would like to hear a concensus of Pro Players, especially the older ones who have played with both.
& TY in advance!

 

[biggame]

The blue circle, red circle, and the super aramith all way the same on my scale. I think the blue circle cue ball skids alot more for the reason that the chalk sticks to it more then the red circle. Just my opinion

 

[cut shot]

Yeowww Tom, now I have a migrain! If anyone knows for sure it would be Keith Mc Cready. I have been snooping on him! One pro told me he can be there anytime he wants to be there. I got to get the ice pack now!

The blue circle, red circle, and the super aramith all way the same on my scale. I think the blue circle cue ball skids alot more for the reason that the chalk sticks to it more then the red circle. Just my opinion

 

[Fred Agnir]

"THIS NEEDS TO BE STRIGHTENED OUT NOW"!

Not to burst your bubble, cuz you're obviously passionate about this subject, but this red circle vs. blue circle question comes up about as often as the men vs. women and bar table vs. 9' table topics.

Yes, there's a difference. No, it's not detrimental to the game.

Fred <~~~ weighed them, measured them, played with them

 

[OldHasBeen]

If there is a diff - 1 is right & 1 is wrong

Not to burst your bubble, cuz you're obviously passionate about this subject, but this red circle vs. blue circle question comes up about as often as the men vs. women and bar table vs. 9' table topics.

Yes, there's a difference. No, it's not detrimental to the game.

Fred <~~~ weighed them, measured them, played with them

FRED - There can NOT be two cue balls that are different in size & weight and react differently to the object balls & rails - and say it doesen't reflect on the playability of the game.
If it does reflect on the playability of the game - then 1 is right & 1 is wrong -Period.
I am starting to think that if your playing w/ Super Aramith balls, you should be playing w/ a Red Circle - BUT - If your playing with Centennial Balls, (as most are) then you should be playing w/ a Blue Circle.
I guess the deciding factor should be decided by the Pro Players & the specs of the table.
I KNOW & CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE - IT ISN'T MINIMAL !

 

[dafatman]

There is a definite difference......

A couple of years ago I went through this same thought process and testing for an upgrade of the balls in my billiard room. Here's what I found through measuring and weighing new sets of these sets of ball......
We had Aramith Premiers and Red Circle Cue balls and I was looking at stepping up to the Super Pro, but with which cue ball?
I measured the size of a new set of Premiers vs a new set of Super Pros, (using calipers) and found the Premiers to be slightly smaller. The Red Circle Cue was about the same size as the Premier balls. I weighed 5 Premiers vs 5 Super Pros and found the Super Pros an ounce heavier which is not quite a quarter ounce per ball difference. The weight of 5 Red Cirlces matched close to the weight of the 5 Premiers. 5 of the Red Triangles, (now the Aramith Red Cue ball) weighed close to the weight of the 5 Super Pro balls. I weighed some Blue Circles and some Centenials, and they weighed slightly higher than the Super Pros but were matched !!!!
Earl has said that the Red Circles were junk because you could "put them on a yo-yo" as far as cue ball movement, and anyone could do it, but with the Aramith Red Cue ball or the Aramith Blue Circle cue ball it took more stroke. Not only that, but I agree 100 % that it changes the game when it comes to different weighing cue balls and object balls.
I recommend using Red Cirlce cue balls with Aramith Premiers, Aramith Red or the (Red Triangle ball if you still have them) and the Blue Circle ball with Centenials. If you mix the cue balls between these sets, you'll see a different game with each mix.
There is a local competitor who thought that Centenials were the way to go in his 10 table room, and he thought that Red Circle was the bomb, so he set up that way. The young ball bangers that play there think they can play cause they can make that Red Circle go backwards! But you wouldn't believe the shots that you'll miss on his big bucket tables if you're used to "matched" set ups when you go to his room. Then if you recognize the set up or play long enough with the mix, you can get going, but it ain't right!!!!!!!!
This happened to me at another nearby establishment in a regional tournament... I had just blistered a good player in the tournament, on a table with new cloth, Super Pros, and Aramith Red Cue ball (my room's set up). My next match was on another newly covered table, Super Pros and unbeknownst to me a Red Circle Cue ball. In my first two games I lost simple positions because of the cue ball "coming back" on me too much. The third time I noticed it was a Red Circle, and I went ballistic. A tournament being run on Diamond tables and a mix of cue balls...I'd never allow that to be done. Sorry if I got to ramblin'............