And somehow it's a hijack ... And possibly against the rules. If someone is offering a service lets support them or not post.
Want to improve your pool game next weekend?
- Thread starter mfinkelstein3
- Start date
And somehow it's a hijack ... And possibly against the rules. If someone is offering a service lets support them or not post.
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I give no opinion on instruction (especially since nobody asked me) but I have a comment on this. There's a straight stroke and then there's a straight stroke.
Put the cue ball a diamond or two away from the corner pocket so you have a good bridge not on the rail. Put the object ball half way to the diagonal opposite corner pocket and make sure the balls are perfectly straight lined up with hole reinforcers and a long piece of string. If you can pocket the ball AND follow the cue ball into the pocket, you have a straight stroke (forget about compensating errors for this discussion). If you can pocket the ob but the cue ball consistently goes right or left by several inches, then you do not have a straight stroke, and this amount of error will cause problems during the course of a game.
I contend that no human eye can detect the difference between the two strokes, yet cell phones with the proper software can. That doesn't mean you can immediately correct the problem, but seeing it is a good first step.
The player himself can also detect the difference.
Lou Figueroa
if said player
is paying attention
It seems the people that pitch and bittche about lessons/fees and schools/instructors are the ones that have not gone that route. Please show any negative review of Scott or any instructor involved with the school. There are none. Thinking it cost too much or can't afford it has nothing to do with anything.
I've taken lessons.
And for $200 ($50 an hour for the math impaired) I can get four hours with a bona fide, gilt edged, no-kidding champion. Even for three days, that $1200. So if someone were inclined to take lessons, why on God's good green Simonis covered Earth would you pay more and take them from someone whose lead qualification is "lifetime player"? Someone you've never heard of? Someone who has never won or done anything?! Someone whose claim is that a particular stroke rhythm is the key to everlasting pool happiness though most pros don't use it?
I'm a lifetime player -- hell, most of us here are lifetime players!!!
You gotta be nuts.
Lou Figueroa
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Yes, I find that things that cannot be seen by an observer are very easily felt by the player. Things like muscle tension or tiny amounts of elbow movement cannot be readily observed.
Forget all that, Dan. It's results right in front of your little peepers.
What is happening on the table.
A shot goes blewey, you set it up again and shoot it again. Chances are you get the exactly same result. So then the question becomes: why? Not understanding the physics of the shot? A swarp in your stroke? So then -- what caused the swarp? Forget muscle tension and and elbow movement. It's usually much more obvious that that.
Lou Figueroa
Post From Robin Kelly
I Robin Kelly asked Mark Finklestein to post this in the Pool School thread for me. I use my books as an avatar and it would tacky and disrespectful to post in his thread for his school like that.
I played Pool with Tom Simpson fairly often and enjoyed his company. He and I shared a lot of ideas about Pool, books, material etc. during our One Pocket sessions. One of the things that impressed me about Tom was he was always contributing to our conversations by showing me things on the table and we exchanged these little tips.
Those little things are what separates the good players from great ones. That extra idea that makes a shot possible where no shot seems to exist. You really can't put a price tag on those kinds of things when your pool game matters to you enough to want to learn them. The local Roadman isn't going to show those to you. He's going to use them against you. You might pickup on what he did to you and you might not but a price will be paid.
When you pay someone to help you, they travel a long way, they have hotel bills, they bring with them certifications that help them to show you the right direction to go. They have bills to pay just like you. You are the one that needs and wants the help.Just being able to get 3 days worth of tips and training is pretty awesome. What a Poolcation! Someone had to spend a lot of time to come up with 3 days worth of lesson plans that can be scrapped in a minute when and instructor finds out his student needs something not in the course.
If you have the idea that you want to be a more mature, collected, excellent pool player and you value the time you spend at the table and want some quality instilled into your techniques. The services of a professional instructor are worth the time invested and until you've done it and given it a chance, you really have no idea what you might be missing out on. There are always cheaper alternatives, but are they better? Those with the desire, who believe in themselves and their ability to work and succeed, consistently value the opinions of professional. The opinions of a professional are his stock in trade gathered over a lifetime of experience and they possess value. They always have and always will. The instructors in this school have the most collective experience you will find.
The most difficult thing that you will ever have to get past in your life as a person or a player is...yourself.
A successful person is willing to do, what an unsuccessful person won't.
Think about it and you will find out its many times true.
8hrs a day for 3 days of individual attention for this price is a deal do the math and you wont find more quality pool instruction for that price anwhere.
Robin Kelly
I Robin Kelly asked Mark Finklestein to post this in the Pool School thread for me. I use my books as an avatar and it would tacky and disrespectful to post in his thread for his school like that.
I played Pool with Tom Simpson fairly often and enjoyed his company. He and I shared a lot of ideas about Pool, books, material etc. during our One Pocket sessions. One of the things that impressed me about Tom was he was always contributing to our conversations by showing me things on the table and we exchanged these little tips.
Those little things are what separates the good players from great ones. That extra idea that makes a shot possible where no shot seems to exist. You really can't put a price tag on those kinds of things when your pool game matters to you enough to want to learn them. The local Roadman isn't going to show those to you. He's going to use them against you. You might pickup on what he did to you and you might not but a price will be paid.
When you pay someone to help you, they travel a long way, they have hotel bills, they bring with them certifications that help them to show you the right direction to go. They have bills to pay just like you. You are the one that needs and wants the help.Just being able to get 3 days worth of tips and training is pretty awesome. What a Poolcation! Someone had to spend a lot of time to come up with 3 days worth of lesson plans that can be scrapped in a minute when and instructor finds out his student needs something not in the course.
If you have the idea that you want to be a more mature, collected, excellent pool player and you value the time you spend at the table and want some quality instilled into your techniques. The services of a professional instructor are worth the time invested and until you've done it and given it a chance, you really have no idea what you might be missing out on. There are always cheaper alternatives, but are they better? Those with the desire, who believe in themselves and their ability to work and succeed, consistently value the opinions of professional. The opinions of a professional are his stock in trade gathered over a lifetime of experience and they possess value. They always have and always will. The instructors in this school have the most collective experience you will find.
The most difficult thing that you will ever have to get past in your life as a person or a player is...yourself.
A successful person is willing to do, what an unsuccessful person won't.
Think about it and you will find out its many times true.
8hrs a day for 3 days of individual attention for this price is a deal do the math and you wont find more quality pool instruction for that price anwhere.
Robin Kelly
I set out a loooong time ago to try and perfect my stroke. I came to the conclusion that I had to understand all the variables and what affect they had on the results of the shot. For instance, why is my head in this particular position and what happens if it is more left or more right and why? What happens if my finger is more under the cue rather than on the side of the cue and does it matter? and so on. Needless to say, this is not a quick process and is one full of dead ends and misinterpretations, and may also be impossible to learn from without detailed video feedback.
I'm pretty close to perfecting it now, and I can tell you some of the key factors for me are muscle tension in the hand and elbow movement (not enough to see by a casual observer). Both of those factors combine to swerve the cue a minuscule amount and push the cue ball a few inches to the right of straight...every...single...time. I should say these are the last two factors after the 100 others have already been figured out.
I think our approach to the stroke is probably similar.
Well, if that's working for you, Mazel tov!
For me, stroke speed is ingrained -- thousands of hours and I don't have to think about it beyond noting that sometimes I hit a particular position play too hard or too soft and then I make appropriate adjustments. Elbow movement not on my radar. If it needs to happen it will, if not, it dan't.
All and all, I agree and suspect we are close in our approach. Would be fun to get together sometime and compare note.
Lou Figueroa
does tiger woods/serena williams/roger federer have world champions as coaches??
NO
just sayin lou
does tiger woods/serena williams/roger federer have world champions as coaches??
NO
just sayin lou
Larry, I see your point, and Lou's too!..Just keep in mind, super stars in any sport, would have a hard time finding any instructor anywhere near their equal.(skill wise)..Also, assuming a top player has established a good, workable set of skills, (for them) it then becomes strictly a matter of execution!..To my way of thinking, time spent competing with top players, can be far more rewarding than any top instructor can ever provide!
Instructors can only deal with mechanics and basics, (which is great for 'newbies') wheras only competing with top players, can expose you to all facets of the game..As you know, I'm not big on practicing, but as I've often stated, you can practice until your arms fall off..but nothing can replace 'real live competition', for learning a complicated and demanding game like 1P!
PS..You may be right for teaching a game like 8 or 9 ball, but even then, the instructor would still have to be near, or equal, to the student, for them to gain any appreciable benefit! One Pocket, (as you know) is a whole different ball game!
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dick
i agree with you 100% in the sense that most of the people taking these type of lessons are looking to improve their stroke mechanics and they are great for that purpose
part of learning to play IS TO PLAY
and especially to learn one pocket
but even there if you dont practice the one rail banks so they are automatic
for example
all the action in the world wont help you make them
after you have practiced the one rail banks and make them in practice
then you have to dog them when playing for money until you can handle the pressure and make them like in practice
since pool players in general dont travel with coaches as they do in golf and tennis
they have to learn by experience even tho almost every top player had a mentor
who taught them the ropes in addition to earning by experience
but getting back to the op
we agree shane /alex/dennis orcullo might not find this format appealing
but there are so many lower level players that want to have more enjoyment by playing better that can benefit from this type of experience
Would you rather learn about the moon from a licensed high school science teacher with certificates OR from a damn astronaut that was actually there? I ponder this when talking about instructors, sure some are world class players, most current pro's offer lessons but I agree that some lack the knowledge of communication/teaching while others might be just ok at it. I really question the instructors that only teach stroking, when there is so so so much more to the games of pool! I like to see instructors with the ability to run 3or more racks at a time. Like mark Wilson, max Ederle, Varner etc.
Sure everyone could or could of at one time benefitted from a stroke instructor, but I really believe at a certain point the instructor needs to be great at game play! I know this is off topic/but not really seeing where this thred is headed lol I play both sides when it comes to this ,I know, so you don't need to point it out.
A lot of these threads get into expenses etc. table mechanics barely getting by, instructors having added cost. Here's an idea get a better job. When I was 16 I worked at Hardee's and loved it. But guess what I got a better job! don't hate on those who question cost, quality etc. after all you're the professional
Sure everyone could or could of at one time benefitted from a stroke instructor, but I really believe at a certain point the instructor needs to be great at game play! I know this is off topic/but not really seeing where this thred is headed lol I play both sides when it comes to this ,I know, so you don't need to point it out.
A lot of these threads get into expenses etc. table mechanics barely getting by, instructors having added cost. Here's an idea get a better job. When I was 16 I worked at Hardee's and loved it. But guess what I got a better job! don't hate on those who question cost, quality etc. after all you're the professional
Are
A service or item being offered and should be taken or skipped. Do you sell anything for a living...would you find it inappropriate if people wrote ...too much, not worth it, can get it cheaper, What does your lifetime experience have to with a person that can afford these lessons/school. How are you helping the instructors or participants. Start your own school. Hopefully you'll get filled up quickly and have bunch of positives replies.
As far as "Someone you've never heard of'? Who are we talking about. Someone from this school? Or someone we never heard about. Of course an unknown is worthless until they have credible references and reviews.
A service or item being offered and should be taken or skipped. Do you sell anything for a living...would you find it inappropriate if people wrote ...too much, not worth it, can get it cheaper, What does your lifetime experience have to with a person that can afford these lessons/school. How are you helping the instructors or participants. Start your own school. Hopefully you'll get filled up quickly and have bunch of positives replies.
As far as "Someone you've never heard of'? Who are we talking about. Someone from this school? Or someone we never heard about. Of course an unknown is worthless until they have credible references and reviews.
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