Most people have I pads or similar devices. Most have smartphones or similar devices to video record. You can do an analysis of your video taped stroke blueprint and match it up to the eleven step "ideal stroke blueprint" found in the book. That coupled with excellent instruction is much more quality information than can be given in a few hour lesson. It will definitely show you your problems in your stroke mechanics. I think a good instructor can do some of the things in the book but definitely not "more". The price of some things does not justify the return for me.
Want to improve your pool game next weekend?
- Thread starter mfinkelstein3
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Most people have I pads or similar devices. Most have smartphones or similar devices to video record. You can do an analysis of your video taped stroke blueprint and match it up to the eleven step "ideal stroke blueprint" found in the book. That coupled with excellent instruction is much more quality information than can be given in a few hour lesson. It will definitely show you your problems in your stroke mechanics. I think a good instructor can do some of the things in the book but definitely not "more". The price of some things does not justify the return for me.
You are correct in your assessment for the most part, but the problem that people run into is interpretation of what they are reading. I.E. I will use myself as an example; I bought the book a month before I went and saw Mark Wilson, I had already had lessons from Scott Lee, I adopted Marks "Orthodox" stance into my set up because it was different then what I was using, I set it up just like I saw it in the book, when I went to see Mark to work on advanced stuff he did his video analyses and identified that I needed to adjust my feet for better balance and alignment. That little bit of information that an instructor can identify is PRICELESS.
That is just 1 example that I can think of right off the top of my head.
I see the value in instructors and that is why I became one a year ago.
I hate to be negative on this but why are the instructors not listed?
Listing X number of years' experience is great and all, but if anybody is going to hand that kind of money over they should want to know exactly who the instructor is to check credentials and most importantly that their philosophy is oriented towards modern equipment. The fast cloths, tighter pockets, and international influences have all had a major impact on the game. I wouldn't pay Zombie Mosconi $0.50 to teach me 10-ball on Simonis 860.
I'm very skeptical that a clinic at that price is equally appropriate for all skill levels. A raw beginner can't possibly absorb $1300 worth of instruction in a weekend. I'm thinking there would be a very narrow set of people for whom this format could actually be appropriate and worth that money, probably C or C+ players who are mindful and serious about improving and have a general idea of what advanced play looks like but have ingrained bad habits and need to be intensively and ruthlessly broken down and shown what they should be doing in their solo time to get better.
Listing X number of years' experience is great and all, but if anybody is going to hand that kind of money over they should want to know exactly who the instructor is to check credentials and most importantly that their philosophy is oriented towards modern equipment. The fast cloths, tighter pockets, and international influences have all had a major impact on the game. I wouldn't pay Zombie Mosconi $0.50 to teach me 10-ball on Simonis 860.
I'm very skeptical that a clinic at that price is equally appropriate for all skill levels. A raw beginner can't possibly absorb $1300 worth of instruction in a weekend. I'm thinking there would be a very narrow set of people for whom this format could actually be appropriate and worth that money, probably C or C+ players who are mindful and serious about improving and have a general idea of what advanced play looks like but have ingrained bad habits and need to be intensively and ruthlessly broken down and shown what they should be doing in their solo time to get better.
1. You quoted my post without the post I quoted leading to my post being taken out of context.
2. You have NO idea of my background in the game, whether I ever had formal instruction & to comment as you do without knowing not only makes you seem presumptuous but foolish.
3. You're right I am entitled to my opinion just as you are yours. Mine is that you're a B player & as a result I would stand to glean little from you as a result.
4. Lastly I read your "original post" before you "edited" it to this version which doesn't resort to name calling as the "original" did casting aspersions regarding intelligence. At least you proved to be intelligent enough to know in hindsight that it made you look thin skinned & petty & "edited" it to this version.
At the end of the day Scott your teaching is worth what your students think it's worth & you're still doing it so I guess PT Barnum was right. Have a nice day.
I believe the instructors are listed here: https://poolclinics.com/billiards-instructors/
Besides Putnam, for most of them it appears that their major qualification is "lifetime player" and perhaps a certificate.
Lou Figueroa
Exactly.
There is no solid return for this type of investment. I would have to wonder what percentage of participants earn more than $1,300 after the clinic through pool, be it tournaments or gambling. There's no way of knowing for sure, but my guess is that it would be very low.
Warning! Exaggerated, long rant, not to be taken seriously, I mean it folks. No angry pm's or red reps, please. IT IS A JOKE, HONESTLY:
I'm sorry, man, but you are usually so sensible..Investment!? In POOL!? Nobody EVER got a good ROI on playing pool. The hours needed are ridiculous! You could be a brain surgeon, or even <shudder> a lawyer with less time spent. Lets be real honest with ourselves here: What are lessons REALLY about? Most people come there to have someone tell them they are talented etc...Then have some guy or gal pay them lots of attention, while doing as little actual work themselves they possibly can. It's like a spa for the uncultured male.:grin-square: Like a dentist who finally could afford a Lambo or whatever, then goes to the racetrack to have a pro racecar driver give him a lesson on how to drive it. What's the return on investment there? He learns to go around corners better at high speeds (with luck), meanwhile he's stuck in 20mph traffic every day in an impractical, uncomfortable car. Trust me, he isn't going anywhere. At least the pool players won't drive off a cliff when they try to impress their friends.. You are not going to earn money, even if you do win the APA league or whatever. Transport and hotel, along with lessons and cues will eat every bit of profit there is to be had. What was that line from the awful movie again? "Even if you win, you can't win".
The people that are actually going places have coaches coming to them, not the other way around. They are young, too. If you're more than 10 years old and haven't been playing pool from the age of 5, your f-ed. Doomed to a life of work, family and a well paying job (every other job is "well paying" by comparison)..The horror.
So some guy/gal wants to spend 1300 dollars on some coaching, making him/her feel really important and talented. Others prefer escorts for this kind of service, but whatever. For some of you, it's a great change having someone other than the person you're living with telling you what to do, as well. Maybe they improve slightly, there is a chance the instruction will actually do that, in combination with hard work (which probably 1-2 % are willing to do). Either way, they got what they paid for, an experience of actually being an athlete along with possible improvement. Nobody is a victim in these kinds of transactions. For me personally, getting coaching meant I actually improved enough to run a few more balls at straight pool (after working my axx off, and not paying even close to 1300 dollars for one day. He didn't even tell me I was talented <sniffle>.). Meanwhile, I'm not going to New York for the "World" championship any time soon. I got hustled, I tell ya! If you expect more value than this, I suggest you spend your 1300 dollars a day elsewhere. Oh, and she has a free tip for everyone "Always finish on the chest, or it will cost you in the long run". (All the good ones teach snooker fundamentals, God dammit..):
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With this logic take a week off of work or two or three weeks until the $1300 is matched in missed pay check and just plAy 12hrs a day! You will be better than you were when you started!
It's a shame that this thread had to be derailed by people here who have no idea what they're talking about. "It can't be done"..."that's impossible", "$1300 a day" (it's 3 days, but I suppose that's a joke too 
)...these are guesses, at best, from people who have no experience teaching pool at a professional level, unlike Mark, who started this thread, and myself, who will be teaching this course, with Mark. There are at least hundreds of posters here who have experienced positive learning experiences from either one of us, along with randyg, and a whole group of others.
All SPF instructors teach the same core concepts, because they are the most successful methods available. The program speaks for itself, with literally many thousands of students...with many thousands more to go, to improve people's enjoyment of the game, especially young people, and thereby grow the sport. Those posters who cannot fathom that are simply short-sighted. Is is the only approach? Nope...nobody ever said it was. Is it an instant improvement? Absolutely. The knowledge you'll experience can be gamechanging (even in 3 days), and lifelong, if you put in the correct practice.
What something "costs" is individual to the person. Most of the naysayers in this thread likely play with cues that cost more (in some cases MUCH more) than this class. If you own your own table, you made a sizable investment there too. Even if you have a table, most of us spend plenty of time playing somewhere else...at considerable expense. Why wouldn't it make sense, no matter what your skill level is, to take advantage of a great learning opportunity...especially one that may help you to overcome a lot of problems? Why do we have national champions, pro players, and even world champions come through pool school? They're already great players...what could they possibly learn? They come with an open mind...something that seems to be in short supply in this thread, and most threads that talk about instruction. You have to be open-minded before you can learn anything new. We have beginners and master players in pool school together all time. They both tout very positive learning experiences. To say that someone new to the game could not benefit enormously just shows ignorance about quality teaching. There have been, throughout the history of this site, many posters, despite the naysayers, that continue to have great learning experiences, from many avenues. Some of them post about it...some don't. That said, the HUGE majority liked what they got. That's really what instruction is about. :thumbup:
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
)...these are guesses, at best, from people who have no experience teaching pool at a professional level, unlike Mark, who started this thread, and myself, who will be teaching this course, with Mark. There are at least hundreds of posters here who have experienced positive learning experiences from either one of us, along with randyg, and a whole group of others. All SPF instructors teach the same core concepts, because they are the most successful methods available. The program speaks for itself, with literally many thousands of students...with many thousands more to go, to improve people's enjoyment of the game, especially young people, and thereby grow the sport. Those posters who cannot fathom that are simply short-sighted. Is is the only approach? Nope...nobody ever said it was. Is it an instant improvement? Absolutely. The knowledge you'll experience can be gamechanging (even in 3 days), and lifelong, if you put in the correct practice.
What something "costs" is individual to the person. Most of the naysayers in this thread likely play with cues that cost more (in some cases MUCH more) than this class. If you own your own table, you made a sizable investment there too. Even if you have a table, most of us spend plenty of time playing somewhere else...at considerable expense. Why wouldn't it make sense, no matter what your skill level is, to take advantage of a great learning opportunity...especially one that may help you to overcome a lot of problems? Why do we have national champions, pro players, and even world champions come through pool school? They're already great players...what could they possibly learn? They come with an open mind...something that seems to be in short supply in this thread, and most threads that talk about instruction. You have to be open-minded before you can learn anything new. We have beginners and master players in pool school together all time. They both tout very positive learning experiences. To say that someone new to the game could not benefit enormously just shows ignorance about quality teaching. There have been, throughout the history of this site, many posters, despite the naysayers, that continue to have great learning experiences, from many avenues. Some of them post about it...some don't. That said, the HUGE majority liked what they got. That's really what instruction is about. :thumbup:
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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It's a shame that this thread had to be derailed by people here who have no idea what they're talking about. "It can't be done"..."that's impossible", "$1300 a day" (it's 3 days, but I suppose that's a joke too
All SPF instructors teach the same core concepts, because they are the most successful methods available. The program speaks for itself, with literally many thousands of students...with many thousands more to go, to improve people's enjoyment of the game, especially young people, and thereby grow the sport. Those posters who cannot fathom that are simply short-sighted. Is is the only approach? Nope...nobody ever said it was. Is it an instant improvement? Absolutely. The knowledge you'll experience can be gamechanging (even in 3 days), and lifelong, if you put in the correct practice.
What something "costs" is individual to the person. Most of the naysayers in this thread likely play with cues that cost more (in some cases MUCH more) than this class. If you own your own table, you made a sizable investment there too. Even if you have a table, most of us spend plenty of time playing somewhere else...at considerable expense. Why wouldn't it make sense, no matter what your skill level is, to take advantage of a great learning opportunity...especially one that may help you to overcome a lot of problems? Why do we have national champions, pro players, and even world champions come through pool school? They're already great players...what could they possibly learn? They come with an open mind...something that seems to be in short supply in this thread, and most threads that talk about instruction. You have to be open-minded before you can learn anything new. We have beginners and master players in pool school together all time. They both tout very positive learning experiences. To say that someone new to the game could not benefit enormously just shows ignorance about quality teaching. There have been, throughout the history of this site, many posters, despite the naysayers, that continue to have great learning experiences, from many avenues. Some of them post about it...some don't. That said, the HUGE majority liked what they got. That's really what instruction is about. :thumbup:
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Hey man, I'm not a NAY SAYER...
let me make a few comments
first of all i am going to assume the majority of people that take this type of instruction
do not plan on turning pro
they have an interest in pool and would like to play better than they do now
they could also be a complete beginner and have no clue
i hope we all agree the better the player the better their mechanics/fundamentals are
to be to accurately and repeatably hit the cue ball where we want to
all that being said
insrtuction from a qualified instructor to teach you propper technique or correct flaws that are difficult to see by yourself is the best investment you could make for your game
no question you have to practice to "own " it
and the majority will not put in the time and effort for that i agree
but for those that do they now have a blueprint and a path to follow and practice
of course they will need to learn aiming and patterns and strategies and much more
but if they cannot deliver the cue in a straight consistent reliable manner
getting good at the rest will be a challenge
as for the cost
if you go on a vacation you might spend more money and have some memories
but you "treat" yourself to an indulgence
well if you like to play pool and want to improve and can afford the price
you "treat" yourself to a 3 day indulgence
but come away with something that can benefit you for a lifetime
to me its worth the investment
for the record i have take individual lessons from scott lee more than once
and can say they helped my game
my 37 cents worth...:grin:
first of all i am going to assume the majority of people that take this type of instruction
do not plan on turning pro
they have an interest in pool and would like to play better than they do now
they could also be a complete beginner and have no clue
i hope we all agree the better the player the better their mechanics/fundamentals are
to be to accurately and repeatably hit the cue ball where we want to
all that being said
insrtuction from a qualified instructor to teach you propper technique or correct flaws that are difficult to see by yourself is the best investment you could make for your game
no question you have to practice to "own " it
and the majority will not put in the time and effort for that i agree
but for those that do they now have a blueprint and a path to follow and practice
of course they will need to learn aiming and patterns and strategies and much more
but if they cannot deliver the cue in a straight consistent reliable manner
getting good at the rest will be a challenge
as for the cost
if you go on a vacation you might spend more money and have some memories
but you "treat" yourself to an indulgence
well if you like to play pool and want to improve and can afford the price
you "treat" yourself to a 3 day indulgence
but come away with something that can benefit you for a lifetime
to me its worth the investment
for the record i have take individual lessons from scott lee more than once
and can say they helped my game
my 37 cents worth...:grin:
pleas quote it and edit it to show me how to make it more readable
i think separate lines is better than one large paragraph with no spaces
thanks
Pete...I know that. You've always been a supporter of, and believer in quality instruction! Thanks! :thumbup: The posters I'm talking about know who they are.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Ditto to your post. Scott you have a lot of supporters. And your fees are more than reasonable.Kris_b1104...Look, we all know you think this is BS...and that's your right, and your opinion. Why don't you quit posting in these threads, when all you have to say is negative?
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Plus 1. Would it be fair to say...take the course or don't take it. Don't like instructors....don't hire one. Don't like lessons ...don't take them. Don't like the price....hire a fly by night huckster.
Feel the need to post manure...find a stable. I thought ENGLISH was gone. He seems to have followers.
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And you somehow believe this is the appropriate place to post this wonderful info?
This is called "being an asshole". That advice is free.
KMRUNOUT