Want to improve your pool game next weekend?

lfigueroa said:
OH MYGOD! One second!!!!!

Did you also see the little green men running around my pool cue slowing me up?

Personally, I don't care what your view is. I dan't pause --it is the normal transition between a back and forth motion. It happens. Doesn't mean squadoush.

Lou Figueroa
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Has anyone said it has to mean anything? It's just a natural part of your stroke. No one is saying you play bad because of it, or that you need to pause longer. Your stroke is fine, but you have a pause at the end of your backswing.

Are you honestly that tiny and insecure that you feel insulted by people telling you that you have a slight pause in your backswing?
 
Started playing pool on a regular basis around 5 yrs ago.

Played golf for many more years than pool. Never spent enough time a golf to become better than a HC 12, but this SPF pause sounds nothing more than a smooth transition from back swing to forward swing.

I've taken golf lessons and pool lessons. Smooth transition is part of basic fundamentals. I never heard of SPF and emphasis on pause until I started to play pool and came to AZ. If it does mean smooth transition, why the special terminology ?
 
ronscuba said:
Started playing pool on a regular basis around 5 yrs ago.

Played golf for many more years than pool. Never spent enough time a golf to become better than a HC 12, but this SPF pause sounds nothing more than a smooth transition from back swing to forward swing.

I've taken golf lessons and pool lessons. Smooth transition is part of basic fundamentals. I never heard of SPF and emphasis on pause until I started to play pool and came to AZ. If it does mean smooth transition, why the special terminology ?
Click to expand...

What special terminology? The word "pause"? Fits in rather well with SPF. Would you rather it be SSTF? (Set, Smooth Transition, Finish)

And, you are correct, it is for a smooth transition from back to forward swings.
 
As Randy says, it is not the length of your pause that counts, but how smooth your transition is.

It also helps those players who transition their eyes during the back of the stroke.

ronscuba said:
Started playing pool on a regular basis around 5 yrs ago.

Played golf for many more years than pool. Never spent enough time a golf to become better than a HC 12, but this SPF pause sounds nothing more than a smooth transition from back swing to forward swing.

I've taken golf lessons and pool lessons. Smooth transition is part of basic fundamentals. I never heard of SPF and emphasis on pause until I started to play pool and came to AZ. If it does mean smooth transition, why the special terminology ?
Click to expand...
 
lfigueroa said:
SPF

Lou Figueroa
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You leave everyone no choice. Until further notice AzB's will be on a hunger strike. All assets to be frozen. Stand up. Admit it. If it will be easier just post the letter P. or wink.
 
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Since this has turned into a thread about pausing, I'll inject my opinion. If there is to be no pause at the end of a backstroke, there must be a loop. Some loops are incredibly small, even small enough to say that they aren't that discernible with the naked eye. I haven't seen any videos posted here and I am not judging anyone. I am just stating that not all transitions are pauses, but there must be a loop, however small, in order for there to be no pause.

A synonym of 'pause' is 'discontinue.' Changing directions means discontinuing one direction and starting another, which is what most players do --- unless the player is looping which is not a change in direction but a continuous motion.
 
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ronscuba said:
Started playing pool on a regular basis around 5 yrs ago.

Played golf for many more years than pool. Never spent enough time a golf to become better than a HC 12, but this SPF pause sounds nothing more than a smooth transition from back swing to forward swing.

I've taken golf lessons and pool lessons. Smooth transition is part of basic fundamentals. I never heard of SPF and emphasis on pause until I started to play pool and came to AZ. If it does mean smooth transition, why the special terminology ?
Click to expand...


You asked a bit further back about the discussion history of this topic. There's lots of stuff you can dredge up from RSB. Here you can get stuff by searching for "SPF and pause." One of the more interesting discussions was here:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=78155&highlight=pause

Huge steaming piles of equations and everything else to include an instructor v science guys fight, all the usual suspects, insults and innuendo fly. Perhaps my favorite post from that discussion was one from Mike Page made in response to a Scott Lee post. Not too surprisingly, Scott responds by saying, "I'm done here Mike...I won't argue this with you or anybody else anymore...period. As for my use of some terminology...you have not taken a lesson from me, so you haven't the slightest idea what I say, or how it is implied for the student to use (or not use)."

lol, gee, the SPF fall back position of last resort.

mikepage said:
My understanding is you believe every stroke has a pause at the back, that the necessity of changing from backward motion to forward motion constitutes a pause.

BCA master instructor Tom Simpson doesn't believe this. See article 27 of
http://www.poolclinics.com/articles.html

BCA Master instructor and head of the BCA instructor program Fran Crimi doesn't believe this. She wrote last month: "... a player like Efren Reyes who often doesn't pause at the end of his backstroke ..."

Is there a BCA master instructor not involved with Randy's Cuetech school that would say everybody pauses?

They don't adopt your use of the word in golf.

They don't adopt your use of the word in weightlifting.

Pool authors all over the place talk about how some players have a pause and others don't.

If we went to World Pool Championships in Manila right now and asked the players to get in one line if they have a pause at the end of their backstroke and in another line if they don't, we'd get a bunch of people in each line. They'd know what we mean. And if I did that at my local poolhall, they'd know what I mean too. We're not talking about some esoteric technical definition as you seem to suggest.

I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and experience and your commitment to billiard instruction. That's not at issue here.

But your nonstandard use of the word pause is actually the third billiard word or phrase in the last month that I've noticed you use differently from the mainstream. Of course you can always fall back on the claim that everybody can choose to use a word any way he wants. And that's true. You can choose to call a "stop shot" a shot for which the cueball rolls forward six inches. Nobody can stop you. But what we can do is appeal to that commitment to billiard instruction that I referred to above. When we communicate poorly or in a way that doesn't match with the generally accepted standard, billiard instruction suffers. This is because students get and compare information from many different sources.

For examples,

On 9-23-07, you wrote,


I pointed out that if you type "half ball hit" into google, You will get over 1000 hits,
from Byrne
Tom Simpson
wikipedia
Bob Jewett
Capelle
Koeller
Ron Shepard
Dr. Dave
inside pool mag
billiards digest

and the list goes on

Every single one of these sources uses "half ball hit" to mean a cut angle of 30 degrees, not 45 degrees. And I speculated the phrase had its meaning before any of these people were born.

You show no sign of understanding it is a problem if you use the same phrase differently from other people. There is no indication you have any plans to change.

On October 18 2007, you wrote,



You say this despite the fact this is exactly what nearly every pool player and instructor on the planet means by a long followthrough.


I'm not talking about what you understand or don't understand, or what you recommend or don't recommend. I know you understand the stuff, and I know you have a lot of sound and helpful recommendations.

But you're not doing this in a vacuum. It's not just you and a few SPF instructors or whatever and a bunch of students. The billiards community is big, and if we're really going to promote better play, better understanding, and a better appreciation of the game as broadly as I think we'd all like, I think we should all show some reverence to the idea of adopting and promoting clear, accurate, common language.
Click to expand...

So, bottomline for moi, I, like many other players, make a smooth transition from back swing to forward. And THAT is different from a deliberate pause

Lou Figueroa
 
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lfigueroa said:
You asked a bit further back about the discussion history of this topic. There's lots of stuff you can dredge up from RSB. Here you can get stuff by searching for "SPF and pause." One of the more interesting discussions was here:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=78155&highlight=pause

Huge steaming piles of equations and everything else to include an instructor v science guys fight, all the usual suspects, insults and innuendo fly. Perhaps my favorite post from that discussion was one from Mike Page made in response to a Scott Lee post. Not too surprisingly, Scott responds by saying, "I'm done here Mike...I won't argue this with you or anybody else anymore...period. As for my use of some terminology...you have not taken a lesson from me, so you haven't the slightest idea what I say, or how it is implied for the student to use (or not use)."

lol, gee, the SPF fall back position of last resort.

So, bottomline for moi, I, like many other players, make a smooth transition from back swing to forward. And THAT is different from a deliberate pause

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

So, you had to go back 7 years to find someone that disagreed with Scott about something to try and prove that you don't pause. (makes no sense, but, whatever)

Yet, many here, including myself, state that you do pause at the end of your backstroke. You say you don't just because it's not a deliberate pause. As you well know, just because you don't do something deliberately, doesn't mean you don't do it at all.
 
I pissed the bed in my sleep one drunken night.

But it wasn't deliberate or with intent, so I didn't change the sheets.
 
Neil said:
What special terminology? The word "pause"? Fits in rather well with SPF. Would you rather it be SSTF? (Set, Smooth Transition, Finish)

And, you are correct, it is for a smooth transition from back to forward swings.
Click to expand...

SPF terminology. SPF sounds a lot more catchy and marketable than SSTF.
 
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Neil said:
So, you had to go back 7 years to find someone that disagreed with Scott about something to try and prove that you don't pause. (makes no sense, but, whatever)

Yet, many here, including myself, state that you do pause at the end of your backstroke. You say you don't just because it's not a deliberate pause. As you well know, just because you don't do something deliberately, doesn't mean you don't do it at all.
Click to expand...


I wasn't searching for someone who disagreed with Scott (that was just gravy). I was looking for past discussions on the SPF/pause thing. There are several pages of them, all beating the same dead equine, all with the SPF instructors stamping their feet insisting everyone pauses, and the science guys (and many others) showing otherwise. The thread I cited was just one of the more coherent ones.

I know it drives you and a few others wild but there's a difference between a pause and a transition. Now go ahead and stamp your feet if it will make you feel better :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
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lfigueroa said:
I wasn't searching for someone who disagreed with Scott (that was just gravy). I was looking for past discussions on the SPF/pause thing. There are several pages of them, all beating the same dead equine, all with the SPF instructors stamping their feet insisting everyone pauses, and the science guys (and many others) showing otherwise. The thread I cited was just one of the more coherent ones.

I know it drives you and a few others wild but there's a difference between a pause and a transition. Now go ahead and stamp your feet if it will make you feel better :-)

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

Not stomping my feet at all, Lou. But, I am sitting here with my head lowered, doing a face palm, and shaking my head. :grin:
 
Absolutely spot on, a transition can take many forms, loop or pause.

Speaking of transitions I always admired Cicero Murphy's long pause (transition). I never got to see him except for some short video spots.

I know you have met him, but have you seen his stroke in person? Did he change his stroke as he got older?

To me it was a thing of beauty.

FranCrimi said:
Since this has turned into a thread about pausing, I'll inject my opinion. If there is to be no pause at the end of a backstroke, there must be a loop. Some loops are incredibly small, even small enough to say that they aren't that discernible with the naked eye. I haven't seen any videos posted here and I am not judging anyone. I am just stating that not all transitions are pauses, but there must be a loop, however small, in order for there to be no pause.

A synonym of 'pause' is 'discontinue.' Changing directions means discontinuing one direction and starting another, which is what most players do --- unless the player is looping which is not a change in direction but a continuous motion.
Click to expand...
 
Oh Lou

Folks.

I am afraid that Lou is in his public information officer mode.

It was swamp gas,

It was a weather balloon,

I don't pause.

;)
 
Let's put it this way.

If you stopped at a stop sign for as long as Lou's backswing pause.

You wouldn't get a ticket.
 
Tony_in_MD said:
Folks.

I am afraid that Lou is in his public information officer mode.

It was swamp gas,

It was a weather balloon,

I don't pause.

;)
Click to expand...


Funny you should use those examples because the converse would be to say that a flying saucer crashed at Roswell and we took "the greys" to Wright-Patterson AFB.

About as real as as "the pause," lmao.

Lou Figueroa
former USAF
Pentagon spokesman
for Project Blue Book
 
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