Wanted/For Sale Forum Rant

I'd like to see where a seller would have to sign up with all contact info only viewable to the Mods. That would offer some protection to the buyers. Have the first five sales free but lock the acccount from selling afterwards until a "fee" is paid, whether that be a membership or sellers permit.
 
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I'm a purest when it comes to "free enterprise system". And, I think the AZ for sale forum is a great system as it set right now. I'm totally against any system that limit or restrict participation. In my opinion, the worst thing you could do is put barriers of entry into a system.

Take the auto industry, to buy and sell cars you have to have a license. And, who is the biggest proponent of requiring licenses, the dealerships. Why, so they can limit competition. The argument is by licensing the buyer will be protected. What a bunch of hog wash. How many crooked used/new car dealers have come and gone.

Once we start requiring license, memberships, or whatever, the next step is to limit the number of memberships. So, that only a few of these cue dealers can participate as sellers. You no longer have a "free enterprise system". Think of the stock market. If you own stock in a company and I want to buy from you, we can't trade unless we go through a controlled market.

Now, if AZ wants to charge a fee for selling stuff thats up to them. And, charging a fee to sell stuff would be consistent with a "free enterprise system".

Now, I'm just like most people, its gets old seeing some one put a cue in the for sale forum and keep bumping it for months with 7, 8, 9 or even 10 pages of them bumping the thread. But, I don't think we need to change anything with the forum, these people just need to get a little education on marketing.

Sorry to rant, but I get frustrated when I see people advocate restricting participation into a market, in my opinion, for the sole purpose of limiting competition. Competition is good. Free enterprise systems are good. And, Capitalism has proven to be the best system of economics.

There are no bad assets just bad pricing.

Steven
 
i am not a club member...but i fill the most important thing on az billiards is not listed or posted in any thread but the PEOPLE that make up this site...and with out them what good would azbilliards be...i dont want to see you to have to pay for anything that this site offers...and if tommorow this site was off line because i didnt pay for it i would be sad that i didnt add my 35 dollars. most people will not pay for something that they are getting for free..as for people bumping or talking in someones thread there is tact and great ways to do it ...a shame that some people dont understand that...the market does suck but there are so many great deals that might cause people to have a since of urgency to sell there items to buy some of the other great deals offered here...great thread jaime and you have allways been a class act and people here know that...dont let a few bad eggs ruin it for you...my 2 cents dont me jack a i know that............mickey carroll
 
Steven,,
I not want to limit .,.it is like taking a new paper add out in wanted for sale you got so many days in the paper and if item not sell it not go back in the news paper after so many days,,If some one is serious buyer it should sell i them five days or 7,,if not you can repost it 14 days later,,many tire kickers out there,,,

BR
Ken
 
Also i you need info pick up the phone and call me,,,email and pm are nice ,,but i yo want to get a deal done really want o buy you should call the seller and get it done,,,one phone call usely does it i guy wants to buy it not 20 pm and emails with question and they never going ot buy it at all,,,

BR
Ken

P.S also if you have 10 items or sale use one post i should not see your ID 10 times in a row
 
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Sorry to rant, but I get frustrated when I see people advocate restricting participation into a market, in my opinion, for the sole purpose of limiting competition. Competition is good. Free enterprise systems are good. And, Capitalism has proven to be the best system of economics.

There are no bad assets just bad pricing.

I'm totally agree "Gmanpoke" opinons..........
 
Gmanpoke said:
I'm a purest when it comes to "free enterprise system". And, I think the AZ for sale forum is a great system as it set right now. I'm totally against any system that limit or restrict participation. In my opinion, the worst thing you could do is put barriers of entry into a system.

Take the auto industry, to buy and sell cars you have to have a license. And, who is the biggest proponent of requiring licenses, the dealerships. Why, so they can limit competition. The argument is by licensing the buyer will be protected. What a bunch of hog wash. How many crooked used/new car dealers have come and gone.

Once we start requiring license, memberships, or whatever, the next step is to limit the number of memberships. So, that only a few of these cue dealers can participate as sellers. You no longer have a "free enterprise system". Think of the stock market. If you own stock in a company and I want to buy from you, we can't trade unless we go through a controlled market.

Now, if AZ wants to charge a fee for selling stuff thats up to them. And, charging a fee to sell stuff would be consistent with a "free enterprise system".

Now, I'm just like most people, its gets old seeing some one put a cue in the for sale forum and keep bumping it for months with 7, 8, 9 or even 10 pages of them bumping the thread. But, I don't think we need to change anything with the forum, these people just need to get a little education on marketing.

Sorry to rant, but I get frustrated when I see people advocate restricting participation into a market, in my opinion, for the sole purpose of limiting competition. Competition is good. Free enterprise systems are good. And, Capitalism has proven to be the best system of economics.

There are no bad assets just bad pricing.

Steven
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Steven,
I don't think anyone is looking to knock out competition, just bring some order to the area.

JV
 
fourkingscues said:
Steven,,
I not want to limit .,.it is like taking a new paper add out in wanted for sale you got so many days in the paper and if item not sell it not go back in the news paper after so many days,,If some one is serious buyer it should sell i them five days or 7,,if not you can repost it 14 days later,,many tire kickers out there,,,

BR
Ken
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Ken,

I don't think this is like a newspaper. Continuing to produce an add in a newspaper cost money. While storage a digital information may cost money, it is nowhere near the comparable expense of continuing to produce a newspaper ad.

I for one enjoy having the library of information going back years. I'm sure there are a lot of buyers like me that use the search function for information when they are looking at a cue or other product. If you had a cue for sale that I was interested in, one of the first things I would do is search for similar cue. Having this information is a good thing for me as the buyer. But, I sure me having the information is not necessarily a good thing for you as the seller. However, this helps to create an efficient market, which is a very good thing.

What is the difference in bumping a Thread and creating a new Thread with the same information? For me as a buyer, I prefer to have just the one Thread.

Steven
 
Steven,,
I you want to buy something,,or any one i am sure they know tha market and i they serious they will buy,,,A PHONE CALL USELY GETS RID OF THE TIRE KICKERS,,,,,and you can keep the post just get it out of the wanted or sales area not sure how u can do that ,,as or fees on Az i not care one way or the other,,,

BR,
Ken
 
classiccues said:
Steven,
I don't think anyone is looking to knock out competition, just bring some order to the area.

JV
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You probably are not personally looking to knock out competition, but restricting or limiting access to a market will result in knocking out competition.

I'm sure the market conditions are really bad for you cue dealers. And, god knows I would hate to try to make a living buying and selling cue. But, limiting competition is not the answer (trust me on this).

Nothing is free in life especially "free enterprise systems" and "Capitalism". Maybe our cost of having a good AZ for sale forum is we have to put up with jerks who keep bumping their Threads (is it really that bad?). Believe me the market rules. By that, I mean the market will take care of the sellers who continue to bump their Threads. I think most buyers will look at a Thread that has several pages of the seller bumping his Thread and say "Hum, there must be a good reason this cue isn't selling. I believe I will move on."

For the sellers who continue bumping their Thread, maybe you should buy some marketing books and study marketing a little. Test the market for 30 day (without continually bumping 3 or 4 times a day). If the cue or other product does not sell, take it off the market (let it rest) try again in 3 to 6 months. And remember, the market rules.

There are no bad assets just bad pricing.

Steven
 
fourkingscues said:
Steven,,
I you want to buy something,,or any one i am sure they know tha market and i they serious they will buy,,,A PHONE CALL USELY GETS RID OF THE TIRE KICKERS,,,,,and you can keep the post just get it out of the wanted or sales area not sure how u can do that ,,as or fees on Az i not care one way or the other,,,

BR,
Ken
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Ken,

Are you wanting to eliminate the "tire kicker" now? Even "tire kicker" serve a purpose in the market.

Steven
 
hangemhigh said:
The membership is solely for revenue generation for the site. I would like to see all that sell be club members, it is a great way to let everyone know you give back to the forum.The membership gives you some advantages as well, but does not set any rules for use of the forum.
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When I said "I would like to see" I meant I hoped those that have and do benefit from the site become members. I do not think it should be mandatory, however it is set up as a way to donate to AZ.
 
Steven,,
I do not think the market is bad,peopel (have to work on there pricing ,,,all comes down to how to talk to someone with respect and infroming them of what they are getting for there money),i am having one of my best years ever,,i just get tired of answering 20 question and they no plan to buy anything in the first place there is NO need for that,,,

FS
nice cue good luck with your sale
Nice cue i have interest ,,If so make a call ,,,cell phone almost everyone has one
HAHAHAHA,,make a call if you really want to buy something,,not 20 pm or email



BR
Ken,,
 
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Mr. Gmanpoke, you are certainly making some misguided assumptions in regards to competition. I held a cue show last year and will have another one this year where I have openly invited my competition. This includes cue dealers, cuemakers, collectors, and guys coming into the show looking to sell one of their cues. I have nothing against competition in the least bit.

No matter if something changes within this forum or not, it will never please everyone. I am merely suggesting some guidelines and guardrails be put into place.

Whatever happens here will little effect on the global economy.
 
Maybe the dealers and people with websites should just have their own separate category or Wanted/ For Sale forum, and the rest of us will just put up with each other.
Worminator said:
I have been contemplating this post for quite a while. I know there will be many different points of view on this subject, and this one is solely mine.

It seems to me the the Wanted/For Sale section here at AZB has gotten a bit out of hand. The same cues (numerous cues at that) by the same posters, being bumped several times a day... everyday. It gets really old sifting through the same content all the time, not to mention all the free advertising they get from this site.

Yes, I use this site to promote cues I have for sale, but I believe I do it in moderation. However, I would be more than agreeable to pay for advertising here at AZB. I have purchased banner ads in the past, but I do not believe they offer as much exposure as a post in the Wanted/For Sale forum.

Many other hobbiest forums charge a membership fee to be eligible to post in the "classified" sections of their forum (something like $25-$50 per year). They also limit the amount of "bumps" one can make on their thread (e.g., a max of 5 bumps total and 72 hours between bumps). They also limit the amount of "chatter" in For Sale threads. In other words, the only replies allowed are ones committing to buy the item or questions pertaining to the item, no general comments about how nice it is, if it is a good deal, here's a bump for my friend, etc.

I believe this would be a nice revenue generator for AZB, and would make the Wanted/For Sale forum a much more enjoyable and efficient forum to visit. I believe that this can be accomplished using the current forum software, as another site I visit has this system in place.

That is my $.02 worth... I'm sure many won't agree.
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cashin said:
Maybe the dealers and people with websites should just have their own separate category or wanted for sale thread and the rest of us will just put up with each other.
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That is certainly an option...

The other site I have referred to has this also... there is a higher fee to be part of the "dealer" section of the forum.
 
Don't just put it on the sellers

Members who use the forum to sell, buy or trade as well, as those who use the forum to wager, as well as any members that participate on a regular basis in any of the sub forums which AZB provides.
Those are the people who need to take a look at the benifits they are recieving from AZB's exsistence. Those are the people who should be supporting the forum through joining.
clubmember.jpg
 
fourkingscues said:
Steven,,
I do not think the market is bad,peopel (have to work on there pricing ,,,all comes down to how to talk to someone with respect and infroming them of what they are getting for there money),i am having one of my best years ever,,i just get tired of answering 20 question and they no plan to buy anything in the first place there is NO need for that,,,

FS
nice cue good luck with your sale
Nice cue i have interest ,,If so make a call ,,,cell phone almost everyone has one
HAHAHAHA,,make a call if you really want to buy something,,not 20 pm or email



BR
Ken,,
Click to expand...

Ken,

I don't mean to be picking on you and I wish you the very best. But, If you had a cue for sale that I was interested in, I would send you PMs and ask a lot of question. If that is not the way you prefer to do things, then why not just add that in your original listing. Such as "please do not send me any PMs. If you are a serious buyer please call (xxx) xxx-xxxx. No TIRE KICKERS!!!"

Also, maybe just maybe, they were serious buyers but when they got their questions answered they no longer was interested.

Glad to hear this is a good year for you. No sure most people can say the same thing.

Steven
 
Worminator said:
Mr. Gmanpoke, you are certainly making some misguided assumptions in regards to competition. I held a cue show last year and will have another one this year where I have openly invited my competition. This includes cue dealers, cuemakers, collectors, and guys coming into the show looking to sell one of their cues. I have nothing against competition in the least bit.

No matter if something changes within this forum or not, it will never please everyone. I am merely suggesting some guidelines and guardrails be put into place.

Whatever happens here will little effect on the global economy.
Click to expand...

I was not making misguided assumptions in regards to competition. Very quickly in this Thread contributors were recommending limiting competition by requiring membership or charging fees. Its always amazing to me how dealers rationalize their actions and then claim they have nothing against competition or they invite competition. As my dad use to tell me "don't listen to what people. If you really want to know what people think, watch what they do"

Isn't it interesting that the contributor making the recommendation to require membership or charging a fee are the ones with a larger number of I-traders. HUM

Steven
 
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