Warranty questions, what would you do?

TableTek

TableTek

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I have an interesting question for the installers and mechanics on the forum. I currently do not have a formal warranty policy, so I try to always go back however there have been a few exceptions.

My question is the following.... As a company, where do you draw the line on a warranty service? What would you do in the following situations?

1) (Featherstrip loose, cloth coming out) recovered table 1 year ago with no call back until now, 2 hrs away but customer made good impression . If the customer were any different I might explain the time and look to charge, now I am scheduling the return with next local job which could be a couple of weeks. Not an area I pay to advertise in, looking to keep good word of mouth so this is a no-brainer for me.

2) (Table settled into heavy rug)... explained to customer's contractor (who booked the job) on installation that this may happen, would need to charge for return since he insists on having it on a very thick rug over hardwood. I never actually speak to customer until about 3 weeks after install, when he calls and is irate and demanding immediate trip for only mileage fee (3hrs away). Not happy about the "demand" when I was very clear what would happen. I quoted return and level charge and never hear from him again, basically guaranteed a lost customer for life.

3) Moved a 8ft bar table between family members a pretty long distance, everything went fine we did pull the slate but did not recover. 5 months later I get a call from someone I never spoke to who apparently is the husband of my destination contact. He claims the cloth is now loose in a spot and he expects me to return and fix it. I explain that we did not take the cloth off and it was not loose when we left, along with that it has been 5 months. He is very pushy and seems to be taking out a bad day on me. I explain that if he can wait until I am scheduled in the area I would be glad to take a look at it. Basically it is the attitude and disrespect that is turning me off.

4) House to neighboring house move and recover on an unbacked 8ft 3/4 slate no-name table. Return call requested because 2 tails came unglued (ran out of duct tape!), quick and easy fix until... she complains that she can see the shiny heads of the 4 small 7/8" nails holding the plastic pockets in. She actually gets pissy about this, that they are not black. Naturally out comes the Sharpie and on the road we go... She claims I used the wrong nails and wants me to come back immediately... no shit. I don't want to deal with her, nothing is wrong with the table. How do you rid yourself when you get a personality like this, they are out there alright.

5) Mid distance move, quoted to reuse cloth, customer purchasing table meets us at origin. First words out of customer are "So, you are putting new cloth on right?", I respond with showing him the quote I emailed him and was approved on saying clearly we were to reuse. I explain that I carry cloth with me, major colors only but agree to give him a small discount if he wants a new cloth last minute (he seems fidgety). He refused, then said he wasn't going home that someone would be there to meet us (again not part of the plan). He says they are going to have payment, but I am skeptical and it is in the middle of nowhere.... Already having wasted a day, I continued almost expecting to be stiffed after assembly. Good news is that all went well, and his wife paid upon completion... glad I was wrong. An hour later he calls and asked where the table got all the damage from. Now I take extreme care in padding so this is a quick conversation. He is looking for me to "make good" but we did nothing, not so much a rub. I explain my wrapping everything but the frame (commercial style) and slate would not let anything happen to the 40yr old table he bought. Not really sure what his deal was, but I wish I had put my foot down when meeting him so there was no confusion or room for misleading.

I know from talking with many other mechanics, this is nothing new. My question is what would you do and where do you draw the line? It seems like whenever I have that "gut" feeling I should not work for someone, then persist, I regret it. Looking for feedback and examples of situations you have run into including how you handled it. Thanks
Rob
 
I'd say I'd do the same on #1. Try to schedule to take care of it the next time you're in the area. Most people will understand and be somewhat patient since you're not charging them, just don't wait too long.

#2 is an example of a situation where it is sometimes a good idea to put recommendations or disclaimers on your invoice when you get a signature. If they've signed off right next to where you've told them that settling may occur and you will charge to come back, well, there's not much room for miscommunication. You also need to make sure that the homeowner is the one signing off and verifying the work. I've even ran into situations like "the babysitter will be there, and she can tell you where the table needs to go". At that point, I will ask them to tape off the area where they want the table, and recommend that they be present to confirm it's position before we put the slate on. Also let them know that once the table is assembled, if we have to return to move it, there will be a charge, so make sure they are comfortable with the babysitter telling us where to put it. Just one example, but if there's any uncertainty, make sure it's the homeowner/the person that owns and will be playing on the table who signs off on the work. Of course in this particular situation, you should also consider the fact that your name is associated with the installation, and as of right now the table isn't playing level. I'm sure you guarantee your work, including the levelling. I guarantee mine and let them know that if settling is going to occur, it will happen usually while we are there working on the table. Thicker rugs, it might settle more. Just let them know that you do warranty your work, and that if they need anything, all they would be responsible for is the trip/mileage, or whatever you want to call it. If it doesn't cost you anything to make it right, your reputation is worth making the customer happy.

#3, again, if the wife signed off on the work, then you're basically covered. However, if it won't cost you any materials, I think it is good business to offer to stop by next time you're in the area and take care of it or offer to do it just for the price of your gas or whatever. It's a reputation thing. Better to go beyond their expectations to make sure they're happy with your work. I've actually been in similar situations where I told them I'd be in the area the next week anyway, I'll stop by and take care of it for them, just give me whatever they think is fair. Most people will be good to you in that situation.

#4 Come on dude, really? I mean, yeah, she might be a little nit-picky, but how hard would it be to ask her if she would prefer you go to Home Depot and get some black nails or put a small piece of black electric tape over the nail head so you don't see it at all? In-and-out fix, pennies in materials, make her happy. You're even giving her two options so she feels like she's gotten her way.

#5 is a rough one, and I think we've all had those jobs that gave us that uneasy feeling. I myself always make sure someone is home at both locations, and I prefer that person is the homeowner. I understand that isn't always possible, but the person does need to be an adult to cover your ass. This is why I won't go into a house unless someone is home, even with their permission:

I moved a table into a house once. The homeowner was home, and was actually watching most of the installation since she was curious and had never seen a pool table apart. I'm sure you've all heard that too. Anyway, she was in the basement with us the entire time. When we finished, we left out the walk-out door in the basement and she locked up behind us. The next day I get a call from a detective questioning me because the house got broken into after we left. We did explain to him that she was with us the entire time we were working, but imagine if that was one of those jobs that someone had told us "The door's unlocked, just go on in". No way. On top of that, you never know if there will be someone home that didn't plan on being there, or a dog, or anything else. Just WAY better to cover your ass and make sure they are there with you. If you get into a situation like this that just makes you uncomfortable, and doesn't feel right, you know there's a reason for it. Just let your customer know what procedures you're comfortable with, and WHY you prefer to do things a certain way. If you keep the communication open, most people are understanding and will find a way to work with you.

But then of course the saying does hold true:

You can't please them all!!! ;)
 
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sometimes you may be better off without certain customers, you did your best, don't worry about it. some people don't listen when your talking and forget what you tell them. As we all know some people like to complain and try to get something for free.

It is good policy to never work alone without the customer there. Too many chances of a problem surfacing with noone to give go ahead on upcharge etc. In particular loose rubber.

As you deal with more and more people your skills at handling them will improve and you will learn how to turn them around your way. Sort of like breaking the ice in an online forum. Of course like I said, there is always that one or two.

From the way I see your writing you really have nothing to worry about.

You offer what you think is fair for the situation, you do your best as I'm sure you do, if the customer is unreasonable, don't worry.
 
Hi Rob, I know it may not be cost effective now but you should go back to those jobs and correct whatever issue they have and any that you find too. Not only do you keep that customer happy but you will possibly gain anyone who plays on that table as a new client.

As you go back and fix your mistakes (and sometimes others) you will figure them out and you will not make those same mistakes again, before you know it you will have made all the mistakes and you wont get any return calls.
 
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Offer an extended warranty. :D

How many of you are going to do rails with loose featherstrips?
That's just asking for problems down the road.

Silver colored nails are standard.
Table owner can paint them if they want or ask you to do that while you're there.

Don't do the job unless the owner will be there when the job is done.
Have the principal (not the wife/gf/kid) sign off that they accept the work performed.

Ask if there's heavy carpet - you may need to make 2 trips - 1 to set the frame and slate
and a followup trip to level and finish. Build this into your price quote but explain what
happens when the table settles into the carpet. A way around this is to make leg blocks
like Glen uses with the nails that eliminate carpet marks.

Sometimes you're better off Not taking a job when you sense there will be problems.
Drive your own train.
 
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No clue how to move a table but when I used to move furniture I would always use my cell phone to take pictures of any damaged items with enough in the background to identify it was in the original location with the damage before I even touched the thing.

Most times it wasn't needed, but the 2 times I got called on to replace a piece of furniture that I supposedly damaged, I was able to show them the photo and say "oh, this damage that was already there? have a nice day."
 
TableTek said:
I have an interesting question for the installers and mechanics on the forum. I currently do not have a formal warranty policy, so I try to always go back however there have been a few exceptions.

My question is the following.... As a company, where do you draw the line on a warranty service? What would you do in the following situations?

1) (Featherstrip loose, cloth coming out) recovered table 1 year ago with no call back until now, 2 hrs away but customer made good impression . If the customer were any different I might explain the time and look to charge, now I am scheduling the return with next local job which could be a couple of weeks. Not an area I pay to advertise in, looking to keep good word of mouth so this is a no-brainer for me.

2) (Table settled into heavy rug)... explained to customer's contractor (who booked the job) on installation that this may happen, would need to charge for return since he insists on having it on a very thick rug over hardwood. I never actually speak to customer until about 3 weeks after install, when he calls and is irate and demanding immediate trip for only mileage fee (3hrs away). Not happy about the "demand" when I was very clear what would happen. I quoted return and level charge and never hear from him again, basically guaranteed a lost customer for life.

3) Moved a 8ft bar table between family members a pretty long distance, everything went fine we did pull the slate but did not recover. 5 months later I get a call from someone I never spoke to who apparently is the husband of my destination contact. He claims the cloth is now loose in a spot and he expects me to return and fix it. I explain that we did not take the cloth off and it was not loose when we left, along with that it has been 5 months. He is very pushy and seems to be taking out a bad day on me. I explain that if he can wait until I am scheduled in the area I would be glad to take a look at it. Basically it is the attitude and disrespect that is turning me off.

4) House to neighboring house move and recover on an unbacked 8ft 3/4 slate no-name table. Return call requested because 2 tails came unglued (ran out of duct tape!), quick and easy fix until... she complains that she can see the shiny heads of the 4 small 7/8" nails holding the plastic pockets in. She actually gets pissy about this, that they are not black. Naturally out comes the Sharpie and on the road we go... She claims I used the wrong nails and wants me to come back immediately... no shit. I don't want to deal with her, nothing is wrong with the table. How do you rid yourself when you get a personality like this, they are out there alright.

5) Mid distance move, quoted to reuse cloth, customer purchasing table meets us at origin. First words out of customer are "So, you are putting new cloth on right?", I respond with showing him the quote I emailed him and was approved on saying clearly we were to reuse. I explain that I carry cloth with me, major colors only but agree to give him a small discount if he wants a new cloth last minute (he seems fidgety). He refused, then said he wasn't going home that someone would be there to meet us (again not part of the plan). He says they are going to have payment, but I am skeptical and it is in the middle of nowhere.... Already having wasted a day, I continued almost expecting to be stiffed after assembly. Good news is that all went well, and his wife paid upon completion... glad I was wrong. An hour later he calls and asked where the table got all the damage from. Now I take extreme care in padding so this is a quick conversation. He is looking for me to "make good" but we did nothing, not so much a rub. I explain my wrapping everything but the frame (commercial style) and slate would not let anything happen to the 40yr old table he bought. Not really sure what his deal was, but I wish I had put my foot down when meeting him so there was no confusion or room for misleading.

I know from talking with many other mechanics, this is nothing new. My question is what would you do and where do you draw the line? It seems like whenever I have that "gut" feeling I should not work for someone, then persist, I regret it. Looking for feedback and examples of situations you have run into including how you handled it. Thanks
Rob
Click to expand...

Rob, I didn't read your whole post. But I usually guarantee work for 1 year. If I feel I can't please the customer, I will refund the labor portion or give them a refund in the amount to hire someone new. If I feel there being unreasonable, then I will deny them anything, this usually happens when the customer feels the cloth is defective and I found a cue with no tip on the rack. I have offered refund to customers but no one has ever accepted it.

If rail cloth comes out of the featherstrip or staples I replace it as soon as possible so nobody else finds out.
 
As a customer...

As a customer, one suggestion is to always photograph a table before you disassemble and move it.

My opinions are from a customers perspective (but I have a good rep as being a dead fair person)..

1: no brainer. You have to make good when you're in the area again. Not a special trip.

2: tell customer to speak with the contractor, that it was clearly explained to him. Full charge for any work, either contractor or homeowner eats it. May in future get a signature prior to work explaining any pitfalls that may arise later. Proof they were warned.

3: Not your problem. You did not replace the cloth.

4: Done with her. Wouldn't even have Sharpied the nail heads. Unreasonable request. Before leaving, would have told her how sorry I am for her husband.

5: See pre move photograph idea

6: Consider refusing work from those you deem to be nitpicking women. When I was 15 I was working in a gas station. I checked the air for a woman. 10 minutes later she came back, said the tire went flat, and demanded a new tire. I called my boss and he threw her off the property.

I see the photo idea was discussed.
 
I'm one person that can't stand a customer that disrespects me, and won't fail to set someone straight. Example: Customer in Portland, OR. bought 4 Diamond 7ft Smart Tables, was told by Aaron at Diamond he should get delivery before Christmas, and would have...BUT, on my first delivery stop in Sioux Falls, SD. I got grounded by 3 Blizzards in a row, truck broke down because of the -40 to -50 below temps, nothing could move anywhere, had 5' of snow piled up on all sides of my trailer. Customer calls Diamond to complain that he removed his 4 tables Dec 27th and now has no tables, then calls me to say the something, but has to tell me how much money he's loosing daily now. I asked him first, WHO told him to remove his tables? Second, WHY would he take his tables out of the bar if I WASN'T sitting outside his bar with his Diamonds? I told him I'd be there as soon as I could, but that I still had one more Diamond 9ft Professional to deliver, and one of the same to break down, move, and set back up for the same customer. He then got irate with me, started cursing, threatened to sue me for lost income, and that ONLY his tables should have been on my truck, and that I should just throw the other tables I have on my truck for delivery to the side of the road and get my ass to his bar, etc.......I listened to all he had to say, then politely responded back to him "you've got bigger problems than that buddy, because I don't have to put up with this from ANYONE, so I'm taking your tables BACK to Diamond, and you can deal with Diamond reshipping you your tables", then hung up on him. I called Brian at Diamond, informed him of what took place on the phone, and that I was bringing the tables back to Diamond ASAP!!! $27,000.00 worth of tables! Brian said he'd straighten out the customer and call me back, he did, called me and asked me to complete the delivery, so I agreed. Made it to Portland, installed the tables, ate at the bar on the customers dime, and everything turned out great;)

Bottom line is, I won't eat shit for ANY customer, if I'm NOT wrong, if I am wrong on something, I'll bend over back-wards to correct whatever the problem is.

I once went back to JimS's house in IL, undid the rails on his 9ft Professional, pulled up the glued down cloth from the side and removed a small bugger that was under the bed cloth then put the table back together, no charge, 200 miles out of the way.

I had a table in Ft. Worth, TX. that for whatever reason somehow managed to pop a seam, and they were glued, and the table had been set up for a couple of years, and I'd recovered the table for a second time before this happened. Because I couldn't get to Chris, I called Cuephoric to see if he could go by Chris's house and take a look at the table for me, he did, and yep, for whatever reason the seam popped, so I asked him if he'd fix it, so he did and didn't charge Chris for me, so I owe Shane a favor now in return, though he says I don't because of spending time with him teaching him my gluing system:D

The bottom line here is, I try to take every precaution I can to avoid call backs, meaning that if the feather-strips are questionable, I replace them. If I see damages on something that I don't want to get questions about, I take pictures. If someone could complain about something, I try to know what that complaint could be before hand and fix it before it becomes a complaint.

I've had the customers that will complain about the last mechanic that worked on their table as well, and I always tell them the same thing, it's not that they did this or that wrong on your table, it's just they they didn't know how to do them things right, because there's no place in this business to learn how to be a mechanic, so everyone has just kind of learned on their own.

Rob, you're just going to have to take each customer one at a time, and evaluate each situation and decide what you're willing to do, and what you can do. As long as you did your best, that's really all you can do.

Glen
 
Terrific responses from all of you. It seems that I am not alone in having no "formal" warranty. As with all of your posts I do gladly go back, but its the disrespectful and unreasonable ones that stand out and remain in memory for years. It is funny about how many people will ask you to go in the house when no one is present, I would never do that for a contractor no matter how trustworthy. I worked in the moving business for 4 years when in college so we saw some ridiculous claims.

Anymore I have a general disclaimer form with me in the case it is needed, got to document everything. I have had 2 jobs in the past 2 weeks where we showed up, took the cloth off and found a broken slate... First one was a free table that my customer was having me move. He asked my opinion so I told him to leave it (charged consult fee and mileage). I will be finding him a table shortly. Second job was an awesome 50' Blatt (trenton brother) in pristine condition that I was disassembling and crating slate for transit. Got it apart and it has a broken slate. I did take pics of that as the buyer still wanted it. Ended up strapping the slate, then crating it (seller bought the straps from me too...).

What do you do if you get there and the slate is broken? I am hesitant to even move it, unless the customer wants me to take it to the shop and repair. Superglue does work sometimes, but if the seam breaks going up the stairs you are in a world of hurt depending how the thing is broken.

Rob
 
TableTek said:
Terrific responses from all of you. It seems that I am not alone in having no "formal" warranty. As with all of your posts I do gladly go back, but its the disrespectful and unreasonable ones that stand out and remain in memory for years. It is funny about how many people will ask you to go in the house when no one is present, I would never do that for a contractor no matter how trustworthy. I worked in the moving business for 4 years when in college so we saw some ridiculous claims.

Anymore I have a general disclaimer form with me in the case it is needed, got to document everything. I have had 2 jobs in the past 2 weeks where we showed up, took the cloth off and found a broken slate... First one was a free table that my customer was having me move. He asked my opinion so I told him to leave it (charged consult fee and mileage). I will be finding him a table shortly. Second job was an awesome 50' Blatt (trenton brother) in pristine condition that I was disassembling and crating slate for transit. Got it apart and it has a broken slate. I did take pics of that as the buyer still wanted it. Ended up strapping the slate, then crating it (seller bought the straps from me too...).

What do you do if you get there and the slate is broken? I am hesitant to even move it, unless the customer wants me to take it to the shop and repair. Superglue does work sometimes, but if the seam breaks going up the stairs you are in a world of hurt depending how the thing is broken.

Rob
Click to expand...

Broken slates fit in 2 category's, either they're repairable, or they're not. If repairable, they should never break during handling;)

Glen
 
Rob,

It's very hard to do good business with bad people. Unfortunately, we usually don't find this out until we are well into the job. I'll always try to go back and fix or repair any problem as long as I'm getting reasonable respect from the customer. If the goodwill is not retrievable even after you've agreed to rectify any complaint, your better off to offer a refund or have the customer use an other company to service their table.

I've had this very situation a few times in my career. I have many times gone back and done repairs and service outside the scope of what was contracted, or paid for, just to keep the customer happy.

I look at it this way, I receive tips on jobs where the customers are very happy. Allocate 20% of your tips to the call back expense to the customers that aren't happy for whatever reason.

Jay
 
I offer a 12 month warranty on all work we do. It covers anything the customer is not happy with except wear and tear of cloth. If the job is not in town i make it clear since it is a no charge that we will take care of it when we are in the area. I warranty levelness on carpet to in town jobs because it makes us different then others. I will say we have been lucky for a long time(knock on wood) not to have any impossible people to deal with. damage to the table i always make it known before handling it so there is no question that we did it.
 
realkingcobra said:
Broken slates fit in 2 category's, either they're repairable, or they're not. If repairable, they should never break during handling;)

Glen
Click to expand...

Hi Glen,
This last one you could barely feel a hairline, it looked like a scratch. However it was clean through visible on both side of the slate, actually looked marked like it was a factory defect (but its 60yrs old?). The backing was strong so we strapped it across the slate both ways so it couldn't slip easily. I felt it shift a bit going up the stairs. The buyer already paid, truck to arrive the next morning. He signed off on it as seller was willing to refund money and I would remove the table.

0128002043a.jpg

I am confident I can fix a very bad slate, but it is a lot of time so it will generally be easier to replace.
 
TableTek said:
Hi Glen,
This last one you could barely feel a hairline, it looked like a scratch. However it was clean through visible on both side of the slate, actually looked marked like it was a factory defect (but its 60yrs old?). The backing was strong so we strapped it across the slate both ways so it couldn't slip easily. I felt it shift a bit going up the stairs. The buyer already paid, truck to arrive the next morning. He signed off on it as seller was willing to refund money and I would remove the table.

View attachment 124563

I am confident I can fix a very bad slate, but it is a lot of time so it will generally be easier to replace.
Click to expand...

I find it much easier to repair the slate, as with that kind of crack, super glue will just feed right into the crack and bond it back together, good as new. Just a little trick I might add, duct tape the bottom side of the crack, so as to create a "bottom" of the crack, then the water thin super glue will back up all the way to the top side of the crack in fill it in fully;)

Glen
 
Well if slate is cracked I would replace if possible and price doesn't hurt the customer too bad. In the long run its the right route. Example: Yes how do you like my table, yes I want to sell it, its great and even has a piece of slate that was cracked but you can't telll. Point: problem to sell later over slate that isn't cracked. Judge Judy says so
 
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OTLB said:
Well if slate is cracked I would replace if possible and price doesn't hurt the customer too bad. In the long run its the right route. Example: Yes how do you like my table, yes I want to sell it, its great and even has a piece of slate that was cracked but you can't telll. Point: problem to sell later over slate that isn't cracked. Judge Judy says so
Click to expand...

Much easier to sell a table with a "repaired" slate if the rest of the table is in good condition, than it is to sell a table a hack of a mechanic has worked on last and butchered up the rails;)
 
I did consider using superglue on it, the crack seemed pretty tight so it prob would have been okay. In the end, the buyer had already paid so when he said to ship as is we just strapped it so it hopefully didn't chip out on the way in its crate.
Rob
 
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