Was the Z-SHOT Efren’s Best Option?

sjm said:
I think it comes down to the Z-kick or the bending kick. Each offers a chance to pocket the ball. The bending kick offers just a little more separation on a miss as the five is approached at a slightly higher speed, but both shots offer a defensive possibility. Still, as the bending kick involves a tricky swerve to judge on the way to the object ball, I think it's the harder of the two to judge with respect to making the ball, even ignoring that the cue ball approaches the five at a steeper angle, which is another reason it's less likely to go in.

Of course, if the Z-kick is a cue ball path you have some command of, quite possibly because you have a three cushion background, I'd rate these choice as about equal. Still, if Efren's supposed statement that he had only hoped for a good hit is taken at face value, I'd say he didn't maximize his chance of a good hit with the Z-kick. On this occasion, I sense his statement shouldn't be taken at face value.

For most players, I think the bending kick is more likely to produce a good result. For Efren, I'd say these two choices were equals.
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If the Z-shot were more "natural," I might agree with you; but in my experience, Efren's Z-shot is much more difficult than the slight-bending kick. With the ball layout, the "natural" Z-shot path was blocked by the 6 and 7. Left spin was required to cheat the angle off the 1st cushion, and the resulting extra spin off the 1st rail reverses off the 2nd rail an unnatural amount, and any slight change in shot speed or spin amount radically changes the final path off the 2nd rail. During all my attempts, I was shocked how differently the CB reacted even though I was aiming at the same predetermined spot on the 1st rail with what I thought was a very similar stroke (with the speed and spin amount as close to consistent as I could get). I think Efren correctly predicted that it would take even a great player like SVB at least 23 tries to pocket the ball. And Shane missed the ball entirely on his first 4 attempts (see the 14:06 point in my match re-cap video), and I suspect he might have even tried the shot before in the past (who hasn't?).

Thanks for your input, which is always well thought-out and interesting.

Best regards,
Dave
 
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Poolmanis said:
I agree about 100% of your choices there Dave. I personally would tried that draw shot bend. I have shoot those shots in countless times in on several matches. They are easy to learn and fun to practice too. They are especially good when OB is almost in rail. Big target and 2 different target areas to make a ball and if you get them close, you can get counter safe easily.
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Agreed. The slight draw-bend kick was reliable and fairly easy to judge, even on the first attempt. I also pocketed the 5 at least five times during filming (many shots, including some of the pots, were edited out in the final video).
 
dr_dave said:
If the Z-shot were more "natural," I might agree with you; but in my experience, Efren's Z-shot is much more difficult than the slight-bending kick. With the ball layout, the "natural" Z-shot path was blocked by the 6. Left spin was required to cheat the angle off the 1st cushion, and the resulting extra spin off the 1st rail reverses off the 2nd rail an unnatural amount, and any slight change in shot speed or spin amount radically changes the final path off the 2nd rail. During all my attempts, I was shocked how differently the CB reacted even though I was aiming at the same predetermined spot on the 1st rail with what I thought was a very similar stroke (with the speed and spin amount as close to consistent as I could get). I think Efren correctly predicted that it would take even a great player like SVB at least 23 tries to pocket the ball. And Shane missed the ball entirely on his first 4 attempts (see the 14:06 point in my match re-cap video), and I suspect he might have even tried the shot before in the past (who hasn't?).

Thanks for your input, which is always well thought-out and interesting.

Best regards,
Dave
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It was not apparent that Efren used/required english into the first rail on the Z-kick, but if so, I agree 100% with your analysis.
 
sjm said:
It was not apparent that Efren used/required english into the first rail on the Z-kick, but if so, I agree 100% with your analysis.
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The next time you're at a table, set up the balls as in the Efren video and give it a try. Obviously, the table type (especially Diamond) and cloth conditions can have a big effect on the Z-shot, but I think most tables will require left spin to get the shot to work.
 
dr_dave said:
The next time you're at a table, set up the balls as in the Efren video and give it a try. Obviously, the table type (especially Diamond) and cloth conditions can have a big effect on the Z-shot, but I think most tables will require left spin to get the shot to work.
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High right works on that shot...the high makes whitey bend long...then it runs a bit off the second rail.
 
pt109 said:
High right works on that shot...the high makes whitey bend long...then it runs a bit off the second rail.
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I’ll need to give that a try, but I doubt it will work on my table. Have you tried this before with the Efren ball layout? I’ve used that effect before, but not with a shot like this.
 
dr_dave said:
Agreed. The slight draw-bend kick was reliable and fairly easy to judge, even on the first attempt. I also pocketed the 5 at least five times during filming (many shots, including some of the pots, were edited out in the final video).
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I like this shot the best. From a desperation standpoint it offers the best chance at a legal hit. Back to the Z shot, consistent failures can become a good reference. For instance if the shot came up in 8 ball where you had a bigger target (two more more balls) then there you have it...
On that, can the z angle be created when hitting harder?
 
dr_dave said:
FYI, I just posted a new video that demonstrates alternative options for the famous two-rail-kick Z shot executed by Efren "Bata" "The Magician" Reyes in one of the greatest matches of all time against Earl "The Pearl" Strickland. Check it out:


Contents (with timestamp links):
0:00 - Intro
1:37 - Bending Kick
3:34 - Massé Kick
6:27 - Kick Off End Rail
7:14 - Two-Rail Kick
8:33 - Jump Shot
9:48 - Intentional Foul
11:09 - Wrap Up

As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy!

PS: Here are my previous videos featuring the Z-shot:


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Pretty impressive! I would have shot the one rail kick off the bottom rail ,but used more speed, That was the only shot I thought was viable for me.
 
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dr_dave said:
I’ll need to give that a try, but I doubt it will work on my table. Have you tried this before with the Efren ball layout? I’ve used that effect before, but not with a shot like this.
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It actually came up in a match....another ball was blocking the one rail option.
i had to swoop to get maxi top spin...didn’t make the ball but my opponent was impressed enough he didn’t win another game. :)
 
book collector said:
Pretty impressive!
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Thanks!

book collector said:
I would have shot the one rail kick off the bottom rail ,but used more speed, That was the only shot I thought was viable for me.
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I had more trouble with that shot than I thought I would. I guess I need more practice with the mechanical bridge. The shot also required draw and/or reverse spin to clear the 6. This made the shot a lot tougher than a rolling-CB kick, especially at such a long distance. Give it a try. If you do, please report back to let us know if you still think it is a "viable" option.
 
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