Watching live versus online

[jay helfert]

But I need to be ringside to enjoy sweating a pool match in person -- i.e., CLOSE to the table. Only from close can you see the table layout well, identify the balls, know (usually) whether one OB will pass another, know which CB routes are possible, see what spin the player is using, etc. Watching pool from much of a distance, is, at least for me, far inferior to watching it on a decent stream.

This can also be a problem when doing commentary where you are working off the TV monitors only and don't have a clear view of the table. It's easy to make a mistake in this spot and the viewers will let you know you screwed up!

 

[Tin Man]

There have been a few comments over a couple of threads so I'll just say it once here, thank you all for your kind words. It was a lot of fun and I'm really glad some of you got to enjoy it along with me. I do regret not meeting a couple of you. Maybe I need to get an AZBilliards shirt that says "TinMan" on the back!

Jay, I like what you have to say about commentary. I'm always relieved to hear when you're in the booth. I've always felt I could do a good job (with some practice) but have never had the opportunity. Of course, that's what everyone thinks! I think what's important about brevity is that no matter what subject you're talking about, there is some portion of your audience not interested. By keeping your comments short they don't have to wait long to hear something else, possibly something they'd enjoy. If you go on and on about it then they are stuck.

When I was a kid I listened to Grady and Billy and loved the color and information they brought. It's hard to be objective though as I was star eyed and hung on every word, I would've been impressed by anything they said. I'm going to have to re-watch some of those matches to hear it from a different perspective.

Well, time to go back to work. Next one I fly to for sure is the Bar Table Championships in December, so for those I missed make sure to hunt me down if you're heading out that way!

 

[sjm]

Like many of you, I really enjoy watching top pool. Youtube is outstanding with high definition matches from all of our favorite international stars, and facebook streams are exciting as they bring live action right into our living rooms. But something gets lost in translation. For those that haven't attended these types of events in person I want to share some of the interesting dynamics that can develop that make sitting in the bleachers a much more profound experience.

Take for example the match between SVB vs Archer for the hot seat in today's Turning Stone XXX. On a screen it would be straight forward; Shane is an 820 Fargorate, Johnny is around 775, ba-da-bing, both good players, SVB is the favorite but Johnny is more than capable, they'll both shoot good pool, let's see how it runs out. But in person I picked on something else. For some strange reason I felt like SVB was feeling pressured to impress Johnny. It's not that Archer doesn't know how SVB plays plenty well at this point, but nevertheless I got this really weird feeling like he was a kid trying to live up to his dad's expectations. It was almost like he wasn't competing against Johnny today, he was competing with how Johnny remembered playing 15-25 years ago. I know, that's a strange read, but it was almost tangible. I also think SVB is so strong it's hard for him to feel threatened, he knows he can play his B game and win, and even if he drops a set he knows he can likely beat Hunter and then it's the same one set finals either way. Meanwhile Johnny was clearly not feeling confident. On the one hand he knows he's Johnny Archer and is a champion. On the other hand he knows he is 50, and he's not dominant, and not at SVB's level. So he's Johnny Archer, but is he still Johnny Archer? On tough shots he has to contend with these doubts, like "I know when I was 30 I could've run out here, but can I do it today?" Combine that with the mental pressure of playing the king of the hill, combined with the physical challenge of not getting many opportunities, and he was really struggling to offer any resistance. Then, in turn, it was like SVB felt bad for Johnny. SVB was having a hard time to put him away, Johnny was helpless to turn things around, and it was almost sad to watch, but bearable because of the obvious mutual respect and camaraderie between them.

Meanwhile Hunter had just beaten Erik H in a set that was fairly easy. He had been playing amazing all tournament but it was a little patchy starting out. He got a few big rolls early like missing the entire ball going in on a 7 ball cut and then kicking it cross side by accident and winning the first game, etc. Erik made a few uncharacteristic turn overs. While Hunter clearly made some good shots and runs, he didn't play that well yet won without much challenge.

So then watching Johnny's next match with Hunter was very exciting. Hunter has to deal with the pressure of facing a champion that is higher rated (and one who beat him on the winner's side from down 8-6 earlier), being one set away from the finals of the event for the first time, and knowing that he had just stumbled through a set and was fortunate to have dodged an elimination that might have come if Erik had punished him. Meanwhile Johnny was wounded. Seriously wounded. In practicing between matches Johnny couldn't execute anything. Missing cut shots repeatedly, speed control off, rattling balls, missing banks, jerky and tight. His game had just completely collapsed so he was dealing with all of the doubts and fears about his game slipping. To have to get into the arena again in that state can be like being on stage without pants on. As it turned out they both played pretty well, and it was a very hard fought set. They both made some critical errors, but make no mistake they both found their game and played some very strong pool as well. In the end while there was only one winner, they both won in the sense that they overcame those mental challenges and delivered a great set overall.

To me this was one of the most interesting sets of the tournament. Watching SVB front run the finals was anticlimactic and the outcome was never truly in question after SVB ran a few racks to go up 6-1. So while there were some nice run outs from both players (and they both played much better than the hot seat match), it didn't have the same drama that the semi finals did.

While we can't read minds, being up close and personal some things come across so clearly it really allows a different picture to develop, like going from 2D to 3D. It's awesome to watch how these champions handle themselves in the face of the pressures that come from these situations, be it how they warm up, how they sit in the chair, how they engage the audience, etc. We all know that pool is a mental game at this level and that doesn't translate well to a screen.

I will continue to watch pool on Youtube and Facebook, but if you get the chance please take the opportunity to go watch these matches live. It's also a great treat for the players to have fans applauding and rooting them on, and you get to meet some amazing people along the way. If you're reading this maybe I'll bump into you, feel free to introduce yourself. I'll be the guy sporting the "Fargo Billiards" hat. :wink:

This is a very astute post that highlights the lack of perspective that most commentators offer, and that includes the commentators that are considered the good ones. They rarely know what happened in the players' last match, what the head-to-head history is. Did these players meet recently in a different event and who won? How has each player fared in recent events on the pool calendar? What styles of play are each of the competitors known for? For the current event, in what parts of their games have each of the contestants shone and where have they fallen short? When has a player made a decision that was "out-of character" and what is the likely reason? Commentators very rarely offer this kind of information. They rarely comment on whether one of the players looks tired or mentally weary, yet such things are easily sensed by fans in attendance. Commentators tend to omit the historical context of a match, and I'm convinced that it's because they rarely know it. There are a few exceptions, and Jay Helfert is one of them.

Now the Matchroom events are the exception, because of the one table format. The Matchroom commentators get to see every single match in the event and, in some cases (Jim Wych is a good example), have seen every match played in the last several years in the events they commentate. They are, therefore, positioned to offer much more supporting information to online viewers than other commentators, and the online viewing experience is, consequently, far superior to what is customary.

Tin Man, you're right on the mark. You have to be there to get the full experience. Though I'm grateful to all who stream American pool, the online experience leaves much to be desired.

 

[LeftyIke]

Jay, I enjoy your commentating and analysis, but in an Orcullo vs. Van Boening match, there were many that complained that you predicted, and offered opinions on every shot, and said the same thing twice quite often, in your commentary. Can you explain what you are trying to give the viewer, and your strategy for analysis? Do you feel the need to comment on every shot vs. giving space and pause between shots. Many viewers that don't know much about Pool, criticize World-Class Players, Ex-Champions, and hall-of-Famers for their commentary, so I understand that you cannot please everyone.

 

[StraightPoolIU]

As I was reading this thread I started to think about my own experiences attending tournaments, and I think Tinman is spot on here. When you are at an event especially if it's a big one like the Derby there is a lot to take in that can't come across on a stream. You get to see the players warming up. How they're looking and how they're feeling.

An example that comes to mind is a couple of years ago I was at the Derby for the final day of the 9 ball. There were no more than 16 players left, maybe less, so anyone still left had a chance for a good pay day. I got in position to watch what I thought would be one of the best first matches of the last day between 2 former mosconi cup participants. What I noticed though is that while one of them clearly looked ready and was getting warmed up the other looked tired and ready to phone it in even though he should have been the favorite. He drank some coffee and might have hit 2 balls before they started. The result? The underdog ran him out of the building and I think the score was 9-1 or something like that. You would be shocked if the match was streamed and you were watching on your computer, but those in the room saw it coming.