Waxing the cue ball? WTF is Kaci talking about now?

benjaminwah said:
World number six Eklent Kaci has called for any player caught cheating to be banned for a long time after the cue ball behaved in a strange fashion at the World Pool Championship.

Kaci, who was beaten in the final in Saudi Arabia last time around at the hands of world number one Fedor Gorst, exited the tournament in the last 32 at the hands of world number 61 Patric Gonzales.

Gonzales was amongst seven Filipino players to book their places into the World Championship last 16, joining the likes of Carlo Biado, Anton Raga, Jefrey Roda and James Aranas at the business end.

However, Albania’s Kaci raised his concerns via social media following his abrupt exit and fuelled the strong rumours that certain Filipino players have been waxing the cue ball in some manner.

“I lost in the last 32 against one of the 30 Filipinos in the tournament,” Kaci began. “[There was a] weird cue ball, it was all over the place.

“I think the cue ball was waxed real bad, and I think whoever gets caught doing it should get banned for enough time for their gloves, towel and whatever to get real dry.”

Kaci later added: “I’m not complaining because I lost. It’s not my first time and it’s not going to be my last time losing that’s for sure.

“My mind says that the cue ball was playing different, compared to my previous three matches, where the start of the match plays just fine, and then mid-match until the end tables and balls play tougher and tougher.

“Last match I had too many over-draw shots, playing a safe shot, aiming half of the ball with english, and didn’t even hit the ball, missed lots of shots by a mile where english was needed, out of position totally sometimes.

“Even if nothing wrong was with that cue ball, I still think that the authorities in charge about this stuff should take this seriously. It has happened many times in many tournaments, where lots of players have complained about it and no one has gotten punished. It will keep happening from one or another.”

Kaci’s concerns come following the cue ball behaving oddly in Jeffrey Ignacio’s 11-10 win over Aloysius Yapp, with world number two Yapp putting ‘wax on, wax off’ on his Instagram story post-match.

Yapp has since apologised for that quip and who it may have affected. But he also said: “We players are letting the relevant authorities handle it now. Whatever the verdict may be, we players we accept it.”

Yapp added: “It’s basically impossible for a cue ball to be slicker at the end than at the start after 21 racks of play, with the refs sweaty palms and humidity in the room too.”

absolute-pool.com

‘I think the cue ball was waxed real bad’ – Kaci questions Filipino opponent after World Championship exit

Last year’s runner-up Eklent Kaci has raised cheating concerns following his World Pool Championship exit (Photo: Taka Wu)
absolute-pool.com absolute-pool.com
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A little silicone powder will do is as well.

I see these guys cleaning the pool ball by putting in their pants pocket....that always makes me wonder wtf could they be doing. Saw Gorst do it recently. It shouldn't be allowed.
 
Zerksies said:
Seems weird but not unheard of someone cheating.

But trying to figure out how a waxed ball would benefit me.

Eventually i would have to get the ball. Aren't i screwing myself? It's not like they are picking up the ball everyshot.
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Not if you are used to how it will play. Just.like gaff tables with push puns in the nose of the rails at certain spots for banks, tables that roll off, ways of cleaning a table...all to change how it plays.
 
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dendweller said:
Throw some Pledge furniture polish on the cue ball, you'll get some surprising action when you spin the ball.
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Absolutely.
Had a guy at my room do this to a set of balls with Pledge in the diamond washer....took awhile until all the sets played right to get the wax out of the machine.

Windex worked just fine to keep them right...and a little Aramith ball restored every couple weeks.
 
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here's a thought referring to the "one of the 30 filipinos" insinuation. if table is kinda slow and it's hot and a bit humid, who would be at an advantage? the filipino player. why take away that advantage?
 
Bob Jewett said:
That could also be due to the cue ball being small from wear. Make a ring of six object balls frozen around the cue ball and if there is a gap with the last object ball in the ring, the cue ball is the wrong size. This can be a serious problem for very old cue balls.
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Also if its just a lighter ball from use or a cheap replacement ball.
 
SBC said:
Absolutely.
Had a guy at my room do this to a set of balls with Pledge in the diamond washer....took awhile until all the sets played right to get the wax out of the machine.

Windex worked just fine to keep them right...and a little Aramith ball restored every couple weeks.
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Gosh…..you can smell Pledge Wax 10 ft away from where you apply it. Hope they at least used lemon scented.
 
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My bet would be on a silicone spray applied to a glove in small amount, much easier/faster to apply it on cueball than wax, the behaviour of the cueball Eklent described in his post fits perfectly for that...
 
How many of you guys bring your own cue ball to league?
That’s cheating as well…
 
The early 2000s, pool had rack riggers. There was also the bird break at the WPC in Manila that Peach won. It wasn't just Peach. Even Bustie and others were doing the bird break, which eventually resulted in a rule change with 3 balls passing the side pocket. As an aside, if you ever go to a carnival with a pool table set up to run three balls, use the bird break.

Even baseball has its problems. Anybody remember the Pine Tar Incident between the Kansas City Royals third baseman George Brett against New York Yankees in Yankee Stadium in 1983? With team trailing 4–3 in the top half of the ninth inning and two outs, the Brett hit a two-run home run off Yankee closer Rich "Goose" Gossage to give his team the lead,

Yankee manager Billy Martin, who had noticed a large amount of pine tar on Brett's bat, requested that the umpires inspect his bat. The umpires ruled that the amount on the bat exceeded that allowed by rule, nullified Brett's home run, and called him out. The game ended with a Yankees win.

Nota Bene: 25 days later, The Royals protested the game, which was upheld by American League president Lee MacPhail. He ordered the game to be continued from the point of Brett's home run. The game was resumed 25 days later on August 18 and officially ended with the Royals winning 5–4.

 
From Johann Chua

I stayed silent on all these baseless allegations circulating thru social media not because it's true, but since the tournament is still on-going, most of my friends are still competing, and with much respect to Matchroom Pool, I decided to wait for the conclusion of this tournament. While I kept my silence, my legal team secured all evidences, screenshots, pages and account information of all the people who blatantly spread false and defamatory statements against me. I will not allow anyone to malign my name and reputation without solid proof or evidence. I don't need to explain myself to anyone. It's not my thing and my followers know that. I will all take this legally. I am welcome for any kind of investigation, should there be any. This will be the last time I'll be posting here in social media regarding this matter. My lawyers will deal with this matter in court, both in the US and in the Philippines. I know who you guys are, see you in court. 🇹🇼🇸🇬🇵🇭🇵🇭

PS: These people are attacking me in social media trying to tarnish my name. It's not true that I am under watch during the tournament like most of these allegations say. I confirmed it with Matchroom. One of the matchroom organizers confirmed that none of these 20+ players reported against me as said in this allegations.
 
Xdecemberguy said:
Why would you guys question Kaci? He a professional player and has been for yrs. If he sees something not acting quite right...I would believe him. Plus people have been doing this for awhile..and yes it's cheating.
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Seriously?? How 'bout that he just got beat and is a whining biach looking for an excuse??
 
benjaminwah said:
From Johann Chua

I stayed silent on all these baseless allegations circulating thru social media not because it's true, but since the tournament is still on-going, most of my friends are still competing, and with much respect to Matchroom Pool, I decided to wait for the conclusion of this tournament. While I kept my silence, my legal team secured all evidences, screenshots, pages and account information of all the people who blatantly spread false and defamatory statements against me. I will not allow anyone to malign my name and reputation without solid proof or evidence. I don't need to explain myself to anyone. It's not my thing and my followers know that. I will all take this legally. I am welcome for any kind of investigation, should there be any. This will be the last time I'll be posting here in social media regarding this matter. My lawyers will deal with this matter in court, both in the US and in the Philippines. I know who you guys are, see you in court. 🇹🇼🇸🇬🇵🇭🇵🇭

PS: These people are attacking me in social media trying to tarnish my name. It's not true that I am under watch during the tournament like most of these allegations say. I confirmed it with Matchroom. One of the matchroom organizers confirmed that none of these 20+ players reported against me as said in this allegations.
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I'm with Chua here. As the Greek philosopher and historian Herodotus once noted "the past is history."

Little is achieved through any of these "unprovable" allegations of unfair play at the World 9ball. On the other hand, the observations of the players as a group matter very much in mapping out the future of our game.

The bottom line here is that the collective awareness of the silicon/wax issue has risen. Pool can make a positive out of all this by implementing rules that make it much more difficult for players to tamper with the cue ball and establish penalties for infractions.

It achieves nothing to try to single out those that may have been guilty of an infraction at the just completed World 9ball, but if nothing is done to limit tampering with the cue ball going forward, pool will have missed an opportunity to improve itself.

Chua's right. Let's look forward.
 
I have never given it any thought but cleaning on shirts or in pockets leads me to wonder could there be some accidental tampering? Softener sheets definitely leave a residue behind as do some soaps. I don't know about all the other things that might be used in regular laundry or a cleaners when somebody is on the road and drops off laundry somewhere.

I don't like cleaning a ball on the cushion just because anything that comes off the ball goes on the table. Never gave it any thought but even the ref cleaning balls might be inadvertently doctoring the cue ball. Probably need to go to a special cloth or paper towel that has been selected to not affect play.

No question there is the occasional cheater but my gut feeling is that there isn't widespread and deliberate cheating. Typically if a person turns a pants pocket inside out there will be a collection of lint. I wonder what all stays in that lint which builds up over multiple washings?

Just some speculations. Some people use hair care products that might affect play inadvertently from hands on the hair like Efren's head scratch/rub. Some people get very dry skin and use a lotion of some kind too.

Just some random thoughts. I think accidental tampering with the cue ball is more likely than deliberate tampering. Many a pitcher has deliberately doctored a baseball with a hair care product. No reason to think it couldn't happen accidentally too.

Just some thoughts. I think accidentally doctoring the cue ball is more likely than deliberate tampering.

Hu
 
g0ds gReeN said:
Robocop. Starts talking about it ~5m20s.

Initially I was chalking all this up to perhaps referees unintentionally introducing foreign substances (they didn't know how to rack initially) but The King of Money Games has chimed in some on the topic of wax use (didn't name anyone.)
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Notes from listening to Robocop's Facebook video 5:20 to end:
He recalls incident in about year 2000 where a tournament had balls cleaned and the polishing included waxing the balls.
Europeans many years ago dominated pool and used wax a lot. Asian and especially Phillipino players did not but have catched up to the Europeans. Now he heard that everyone uses waxes. Players put it on their gloves or hand or palm.
He made it sound like balls are being waxed and it will continue unless tournament organizers set rules to stop it such as player can hold ball-in-hand only with three fingers. Referee touches balls at other times and not players.
.
 
Zerksies said:
Seems weird but not unheard of someone cheating.

But trying to figure out how a waxed ball would benefit me.

Eventually i would have to get the ball. Aren't i screwing myself? It's not like they are picking up the ball everyshot.
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Perhaps a little silicone?? Tiny piece of sponge soaked in it, kept in a tiny container in your bag to apply to your pocket when playing one hole makes the balls fall easier, but I'd never do that.😉 Sure would make the CB dance. Just saying.
 
Dennis mentioned it in his comments and I feel people are apt to bring up baseball: if this is such a problem then just change the rules. Put it in the rules and everyone can move forward from here. On a serious note, I'm a huge fan of due process.

Edit: I see Chua is also a fan of due process.
 
After reading this thread, I am still not sure how waxing a ball could: benefit the player doing it; hurt his opponent; and not backfire on the player doing the waxing.

Whatever the case, I have to think there might be something to it if Gorst, Kaci, Yapp and Shaw are all talking about.

Should they have said nothing at all? Just bring it to the attention of organizers behind the scenes?

Hard call. Going public will certainly intensify the spotlight. If some players are really waxing balls, going public will serve as a good deterrent.

Still ... accusing someone by name publicly without evidence is bad. Kaci's comments about 30 Filipinos was certainly inappropriate. Painting with a broad brush all right.

As for Chua, I've watched him more than anyone the past two years. I've never noticed anything unusual or heard commentators refer to weird bounces when he was playing. I'd be shocked, shocked if he were doing anything illegal. Very surprised to see insinuations against him.

Strange amount of controversy in pro pool the past year or so.
 
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