We Get What We Deserve

duckie said:
Like it or not, Lou is spot on.

You put up with substandard events, that's what you get.

There is no class, no sense of style in pool tourney's. I realized this recently when I went to a local 3 cushion tourney. There was class in that tourney.

The players acted like gentlemen, a dress code was in affect, the fans were quiet and if they got a little too loud, they were told to be quiet.

Pure class, pure style, but then again that is what is expected and DEMANDED from the players as well as the fans.

This is the biggest problem with pool. There is no set standards required of the players or the fans such as in the 3 cushion tourney I went to.

Until this is changed, you will get what you deserved in pool tourneys.

Oh, go ahead bad mouth me all you want. Doesn't change the fact that I'm right.
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Anyone who "demands" is free to launch their own expo at any time.
I guess Allen adding tons of cash into the events isn't "class?" Is that expected as well?

Are you trying to compare a piss-ant local 3 cushion tourney (prob no more than 10 guys in it) to the Super Billiards Expo???????
 
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I've done my fair share of project management over the years and the first thing you look for are any problem areas in your project and then find some way to deal with them.

So either these problems areas were never thought of before hand or they were but for some reason were not addressed.

The amount of money has nothing to do with quality of the event. The quality of the event comes from the promoter and the staff putting on the events.

You put on a quality event, you will make money. As it stands now with the bad reviews so far of the event, there is a good chance that those that went this year, won't go next year.

I find it hard to believe that someone that has been putting on events like this would not see some of the problems mentioned, ie table placement, lighting and access.

The unknown is what, if any, restrictions/limitations were put on the promoter of the event by the where the event was held.

There could have been things wanted to be done, but the venue would not allow for some reason.

But, in the end, you still get what you deserve.
 
sfleinen said:
Lou:

As you know, I'm a veteran as well. There's a SOLID point to be made of the fact that, with the massive budgets of the different factions of the respective military alma maters of you and I (Air Farce and Navy, respectively), .........
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Note to self -
While it's fairly typical to poke fun at other branches of the military when you are talking amoungst a group of veterans, it isn't always funny to write it down.

This is just a little reminder for me. Now back to our regular programming.
 
BasementDweller said:
Note to self -
While it's fairly typical to poke fun at other branches of the military when you are talking amoungst a group of veterans, it isn't always funny to write it down.

This is just a little reminder for me. Now back to our regular programming.
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Thanks -- that's true. Post fixed.
-Sean
 
JB Cases said:
The ONLY proper response to this is this:

http://www.theodore-roosevelt.com/trsorbonnespeech.html

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. "
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John,

I've always liked this quotation. My Masters teammate Tom McGonagle used this in a post about how some non-players complained about things in the Masters tourney in poor taste.

I think, to be fair, that the big difference here is that Lou described at length the exact way that he WAS in the arena. Unless he was lying, he was speaking from his experience dealing with similar situations. I would say that this makes his opinion pretty valid. I agree with him in that it certainly seemed as though they overlooked some pretty obvious things at this year's expo. One example was that the pro arena was at one point cut off from the amateur area when the vendors closed. They solved this issue the second day by creating a pathway to go back and forth after the vendors closed. It is nice that they corrected this, but at the same time really hard to imagine getting wrong in the first place. Another example: Wednesday night I go to the door they were letting people in for the warmup tourney. They say I must pay $10 to go in and practice, and my friend, who just wants to sit there while I practice, must also pay $10. At the old place, she could have just gone to the room, or sat outside the practice area. So I pay my $10, and go to ask if there is any room in the warmup tourney still. They tell me they are full, but that also there are no tables for practice for 3 more hours at 11:30 pm!! So now I'm wondering what I paid for in the first place...why didn't the guy taking my money at the door have this information? There is just no way around the fact that this was simply poor planning.

For a production of that magnitude, they might have asked for some input from past attendees about what kinds of things they like to do at the expo. I can't believe they couldn't have spent some time (like, a LOT of time) going over possible scenarios that might come up. It just seems like they didn't do this.

I think recognizing one's shortcomings or failures is a critical part of improvement. I agree that overall the expo was pretty good. I don't think it was nearly as good as years past, and I think they could have spent a little more thought planning through the situations that come up. Ideally, Allen and his crew will "get" this, and spend more time next year thinking things through. The previous expo set a standard. Allen and crew is expected to live up to that standard that THEY set. I'm sure they will do better next time.

KMRUNOUT
 
Jodacus said:
Criticism without a real workable applicable solution is as easy as it is useless.

Criticism with real workable applicable solution is much, much harder and usually a lot more welcome.
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When I get paid I'll start solving someone else's problems who is profitting from an event. Though I'm a pretty good cook that doesn't mean I'm going to go roll up my serves and go into the kitchen when a restaurant I've gone to sucks.

Lou Figueroa
 
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DoubleD said:
Hmmmmmm...I'm guessing that the USAF budget for an airshow (for an open field with porta-pottys) is a bit bigger than any billiards expo budget.

Plus...you have one group of people to deal with--the Air Force.

Oh, and you didn't have to turn a profit.

Also, you didn't do it efficiently--this I guarantee.

Poor comparison, sir.

dld
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As duckie pointed out, money isn't the issue. Certainly, it would not take the national defense budget to foresee and solve problems related to parking, vendors selling food (for profit), and making sure your staff represents the event well by preparing them to answer questions in an intelligent and consistent manner. Last time I checked, porta potties weren't a bank buster either.

Lou Figueroa
 
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lfigueroa said:
When I get paid I'll start solving someone else's problems who is profitting from an event. Though Im a pretty good cook that doesn't mean I'm going to go roll up my serves and go into the kitchen when a restaurant I've gone to sucks.

Lou Figueroa
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You haven't been to the restaurant and you knock it.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
 
sfleinen said:
Lou:

As you know, I'm a veteran as well. There's a SOLID point to be made of the fact that, with the massive budgets of the different factions of the respective military alma maters of you and I (A.F. and Navy, respectively), we can put on shows of the magnitude you describe. Hire the experts and put them to work for you. When you have the nearly bottomless pit spending budgets of the DOD, you can do just about anything. Taking risks with, and spending other people's money is easy.

But put a fence around that budget -- especially if that budget is coming out of your personal pocket -- and watch what happens. Ah, not so easy grasshoppa, eh?

I find it a bit odd (humorous, actually) that you commented specifically on an event that you weren't even at. Or, that you chose to use this event -- one that you weren't even at -- as "the latest example" of a much grander-scale point you're trying to make. While the grander scale point may have some value, going to a past year's event isn't a free pass to comment on this one, because you didn't personally experience the massive changes nor have a knowledge base of experience with multiple past year events to compare against.

I was there. (And I was also at previous year's events -- 5 years running, without a gap.) I also manned a booth at this year, as well as in years past. I thought Allen Sr. & crew did the best they could with what they had. The layout of these new facilities is completely different from the VF Convention Center. Don't forget that Allen Sr. & crew had literally up to a run of 18 years to fine tune and tweak the layout of SBE to suit the VF Convention Center. First year in a new facility? *Of course* there's going to be some growing pains as Allen Sr. & crew figure out what works, what didn't, and tweak/tune it over time. One thing about Allen, is that he *listens* to feedback. He's demonstrated this in spades, year after year in the old VF Convention Center.

I think if we give him time, he'll fine tune and tweak SBE to fit the new facilities just as well as he did the old one.

And, going back to your original example of using air shows to compare against, I'll bet my hat that the first incarnations of those shows didn't exactly go off as planned, either. I know that when bases close and any kind of military show moves to a new base / area, there's growing pains there, too. I'd been stationed aboard multiple ships, at multiple bases (and seen multiple bases around the world as well -- remember, Navy ships travel, unlike the A.F. where you're rooted in one place for the duration, awaiting the call). I can tell you that each one has been fine-tuned and tweaked over time in how they do things.

Your commenting on SBE in the new facilities is about as meaningful as, say, my commenting on DCC and its new facilities -- when I have yet to even go to a DCC.

Food for thought,
-Sean
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What's funny is that I was actually talking about pool events in general, though the most recent one certainly brought the issue forward and everyone immediately leapt to make the connection.

As to growing pains at a new base or with new personal (the military moves around a lot, so it was always new people) anyone suffering growing pains as severe as the ones usually suffered at pool events, would be immediately fired.

Lou Figueroa
 
DoubleD said:
Anticipating potential problems is a whole lot different than actually being able to throw the resources at dealing with those potential problems.

For instance: Monkeys may well fly out of my butt. I could, right now, find the world's leading expert in avian-simian-rectal-expulsion prevention, but I am guessing he doesn't live anywhere near me, speaks a different language, is expensive and probably booked up for years on end. It is also kind of a slim chance that it will happen, so why would I throw money/time at it.

As JB insinuated with his (almost) apt TR quote--if your noggin is so superior, why don't you volunteer to help instead of crapping all over it?

dld
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Many of the problems that happen at pool events big and small could be foreseen and taken care of ahead of time. Instead, pool players make excuses. They suck it up. And go again the next year. Nothing changes.

Lou Figueroa
yes, sir
more of the same
please
 
elvicash said:
Lou use your public affairs skills for the good of poo,l turn away from the darkside. Haters do not make pool better, work for change rather than resisting the people who are trying to make a difference. If you have to be a critic try to mention some positives and then come with items that could be done better.
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eivi, I think you're missing my point. I could care less whether any particular event, let's use the SBE as an example, is run any which way. I went a few years ago and didn't like it and don't go now. Equally, there are a few other tournaments that I could go to, but don't like they way they're run, so I don't go to those either.

And that's my point -- if you keep supporting a crappy event you will continue to get a crappy event. If you keep going out to dinner at the same crappy restaurant you're going get what you deserve -- a crappy meal. (And it's not your job to train the server or go into the kitchen or fix the owner's menu.)

Pool players are the greatest apologists in the world and it doesn't matter whether it's KT, or the Galveston bunch, or someone else. Because we'll always be there for them: well, at least he tried; at least they put on an event; it was a first time event (or new venue); you shouldn't bad mouth them; etc, etc.

Anything else in this country and you can find people being taken to task for poor performance, service, goods, broken promises (advertised payouts anyone?), whatever. But at pool we suck it up, make excuses for the promoter, and the crap goes on and on. We deserve it.

Lou Figueroa
 
BasementDweller said:
Note to self -
While it's fairly typical to poke fun at other branches of the military when you are talking amoungst a group of veterans, it isn't always funny to write it down.

This is just a little reminder for me. Now back to our regular programming.
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Sean excels at the cheap shot, even at a sister service.

Lou Figueroa
 
From a pure money making perspective it does seem easier to make money off pros looking for a payout, than any other type of customer.

Pros put up their expenses. It is tough to replicate in other industries. The closest are customers that wait online days in advance of a product release.
 
justnum said:
From a pure money making perspective it does seem easier to make money off pros looking for a payout, than any other type of customer.

Pros put up their expenses. It is tough to replicate in other industries. The closest are customers that wait online days in advance of a product release.
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Don't forget the amateurs who pony up to play in events they have no chance at cashing in, but happily donate time, air fare (or gas), rental car, hotel, food, drinks, entry fee, and incidentals :-)

Lou Figueroa
one a them
 
lfigueroa said:
Sean excels at the cheap shot, even at a sister service.

Lou Figueroa
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Relax, Lou. I removed it. I initially put it in there to chide you in a friendly way. You know, the old <nudge> <nudge> thing with the elbow, that, done in person, would most likely make you smile. But I realized -- after Chris pointed it out -- that it's the type of thing best done in person, not in writing.

I could also editorialize with a blanket stereotype about your writing style (and lord knows there's a ton of 'em that you earned), but I won't.

-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
Relax, Lou. I removed it. I initially put it in there to chide you in a friendly way. You know, the old <nudge> <nudge> thing with the elbow, that, done in person, would most likely make you smile. But I realized -- after Chris pointed it out -- that it's the type of thing best done in person, not in writing.

I could also editorialize with a blanket stereotype about your writing style (and lord knows there's a ton of 'em that you earned), but I won't.

-Sean
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Don't play cute and don't cut me any slack. If you have something to say, spit it out, or STFU.

Lou Figueroa
 
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