Weight difference of leather and linen
- Thread starter riedmich
- Start date
Probably. I use both on my cues and figure that either will weigh about 14 gm but there could be a gram difference. Extra glue might also add a gram. I've built a lot of cues over a long time and I don't believe anyone would feel a gram difference spread over a 12" area in the butt of the cue. At the tip, maybe.
I developed a computer program for help with weighting and balancing cues. It includes a lot of information about the various materials/construction methods used in cues, including wraps.
I can give you a few estimates later tonight when I get home. How much change in weight depends on the handle material, of course, and one's own wrap installation methods.
Kelly
I can give you a few estimates later tonight when I get home. How much change in weight depends on the handle material, of course, and one's own wrap installation methods.
Kelly
For linen that has an aggregated installed density (counting glue, et al) of 67 pounds per cubic foot, and a typical 12" wrap, .023 channel depth/pressed wrap thickness.
Maple handle, 45 pounds per cubic foot, cutting the groove and installing linen will increase the weight by roughly 6 grams.
For something like purpleheart at 60 pounds per cubic foot, about a 2 gram increase.
For something very heavy like ebony, 75 pounds per cubic foot, a 2 gram decrease.
The 67 pounds per cubic foot estimate of installed linen would vary some from installer to installer, and is easily (enough) determined by measuring the weight of the cue after the groove is prepped, and again after the linen is installed. Knowing the channel depth, the wrap length, and the cue diameter at each end of the wrap, a linen density can be calculated.
Kelly
Maple handle, 45 pounds per cubic foot, cutting the groove and installing linen will increase the weight by roughly 6 grams.
For something like purpleheart at 60 pounds per cubic foot, about a 2 gram increase.
For something very heavy like ebony, 75 pounds per cubic foot, a 2 gram decrease.
The 67 pounds per cubic foot estimate of installed linen would vary some from installer to installer, and is easily (enough) determined by measuring the weight of the cue after the groove is prepped, and again after the linen is installed. Knowing the channel depth, the wrap length, and the cue diameter at each end of the wrap, a linen density can be calculated.
Kelly
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In this example, I would think so, as you will need to buildup the wrap channel with either bondo, epoxy, etc. to make a flush fit of the linen to the handle. How much, don't know, but it doesnt take much of anything to make more that a gram difference. Going the other way, leather to linen, should have a drop in weight, again, no answer as to how much of a change.
The real question is, will anyone notice? absolutly not, IMO. Most people don't even realize that their cue, that has a sticker saying XX Oz, actually usually weighs about an ounce lower....so, the change from leather to linen will show a larger weight in grams on a scale, but basically it wont be noticed in the real world senario.
Just my thoughts,
Dave
I experienced at my own playing cue, that 2 gramms less shaft weigth, reduced at 4/5 of the shaft length by sanding the taper, feels in another way. Before sanding and after sanding perfect surface smoothness. And I also have the experience, that 2 different shafts with exactly same weight and tip diameter I can feel them on the same butt as another weight, although it only can be another ballance of whole cuestick / the shafts itself. So I might be a little too sensitive, but in the moment my player cue feels 100 % perfect and I am not completely satisfied with the leather wrap.
I also had the experience at another cue that only by changing the type of bumper the weight and balance changes "feelable".
So the only reason for my question was that I am really not sure if I shall decide for linen wrap or not. My personal best wrap that I had was a slightly lacquered linen wrap, just feeling the linen a little bit, because the lacquer doesn't cover it completely. It was perfect because it didn't get dirty anymore and I had a convenient grip, that feels much better than pure lacquer but stays like it is for ever.
So if it would be rather like this that the handle's diameter should have to be increased a little bit before installing the linen wrap, I should consider that I take an unwaxed linen and lacquer it in 2 or 3 thin layers with intermediate sanding to keep nearly same weigt. That was my "background".
Thanks for all of your questions!!
Michael
I also had the experience at another cue that only by changing the type of bumper the weight and balance changes "feelable".
So the only reason for my question was that I am really not sure if I shall decide for linen wrap or not. My personal best wrap that I had was a slightly lacquered linen wrap, just feeling the linen a little bit, because the lacquer doesn't cover it completely. It was perfect because it didn't get dirty anymore and I had a convenient grip, that feels much better than pure lacquer but stays like it is for ever.
So if it would be rather like this that the handle's diameter should have to be increased a little bit before installing the linen wrap, I should consider that I take an unwaxed linen and lacquer it in 2 or 3 thin layers with intermediate sanding to keep nearly same weigt. That was my "background".
Thanks for all of your questions!!
Michael
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Detecting the W&B difference due to a change in bumper is pretty sensitive! But, the balance is most affected by changing things at the end points. Some of those large bumpers are a bit heavy. It is possible you would feel the change due to a bumper switch more than you would feel the change due to the wrap switch. As a few mentioned in the early responses, the difference in W&B due to the wrap change is spread out over 12 inches, and is in the area you grip. A bumper change is at the end point outside of your grip area, and so would influence the feel more.
As for you being able to feel a balance difference between two equal weighted shafts when screwed to the same cue, you got me. You can try measuring the balance point of the shafts individually (while not screwed to the cue) to see if they are significantly different.
As for changing from leather to linen, same thing as what Dave said. If you are that sensitive to W&B, you should expect at least some change, particularly if the leather wrap is thick and the handle has to be built up as aleady mentioned.
Kelly
Hi Kelly an all others,
my doubts about too big influence of changing to linen wrap are now small. I think I'll do it and compensate the balance by trimming the bumper if necessary. If it are 1 or 2 gramms at the end it's nothing. The balance will be OK after all, I'm sure now.
Thanks!!
my doubts about too big influence of changing to linen wrap are now small. I think I'll do it and compensate the balance by trimming the bumper if necessary. If it are 1 or 2 gramms at the end it's nothing. The balance will be OK after all, I'm sure now.
Thanks!!
I had the leather replaced with linen on one of my cues and I could not tell any difference.The only change was that with the linen the grip area was a little thinner but I liked it because my fingers are a little short.