What Are Your Feelings On "Trunk Dealers" at Pool Events?

[trob]

I think I probably worded something wrong. Wasn't suggesting they should be ok to sell
right inside the venue, next to the paid booths. Of course they're gonna get kicked out if they try that.
I meant in the parking lot. They have a right to try to change location to get more profit.
But obviously not literally in the booth area or whatever.

Then again, I can't sit in McDonald's parking lot and sell fries to people either.

But, maybe that's apples to oranges. That's selling a product that directly competes
with the parking-lot-owner's product. But if it's a hotel parking lot,
the hotel isn't going to be poorer for it. So why should they care and kick anyone off their property?

I think they could kick you in the parking lot also but I don't think anyone is guarding the parking lot so your probably ok lol i agree,,, I don't think they feel effected as much as someone with an open case selling them right in front of there stand.

 

[trob]

Agreed. People who own or have owned a business understand this to well. Again mcdonalds $1 menu could become a 50 cent menu if they dint have over head lol

I have news for you, we are all working on a commission, but that's a life view. As far as acting the middle man, are you kidding me? When I buy from a cuemaker, him and I have an agreed price, he is happy, I am happy and in the end the customer is happy. Lets say I have a consigned piece, why is that piece consigned to me and not dealer X... well because he is banking that my reputation gets him the sale, and HE doesn't want the hassle or drama of selling. Then it becomes MY problem. Who gets the grief on a consigned deal when there is a disagreement? Not the consignee.. there are no crumbs, the owner has a price that is normally pre-agreed upon, the dealer sells based on what he feels is fair.

So let me ask you, how many cues, or cases need to be sold in your opinion to recoup 3.5-4k? Factor in there are 200 other people selling the same stuff you are, needing to make back the same money.. think about why there is a fundamental issue with guys looking to sell on the sly. Of course there are tons of buyers who will help ease their burden, don't worry about that...

There is give and take everywhere.. at a show where there is a table cost, a hotel room cost a meals cost, a transportation cost... 5 nights at 150 ish.. 750.00, the booth 1200, food for the week..5-6 hundred, transportation 1200 ish.. then lose sales to some shlub that is probably sharing a room with 4 other shlubs.. stop it already. Guys paying should not lose a nickel to someone that lurks in the isle.

But it is difficult, because you can't draw the distinction between a guy who is looking to upgrade his cue with a dealer vs one of those guys. Its not an easy task for sure.

JV

 

[classiccues]

I always thought a nice business would have been to go down with a handful of cues and then advertise a consignment arrangement for those type of guys that would be the floor sellers we are discussing. Then after some real thinking the conclusion I came to is that those guys would be the guys that agree to your 10% just to have someone look at the cue in your booth, then do a deal after the show. OR he'll come saying he needs the cue back he is leaving.. bla bla... Then sell the cue and you don't get crap.. Really a kick in the pants...

No way to fight this kind of mentality.. shame really..

JV

 

[Kid Dynomite]

I always thought a nice business would have been to go down with a handful of cues and then advertise a consignment arrangement for those type of guys that would be the floor sellers we are discussing. Then after some real thinking the conclusion I came to is that those guys would be the guys that agree to your 10% just to have someone look at the cue in your booth, then do a deal after the show. OR he'll come saying he needs the cue back he is leaving.. bla bla... Then sell the cue and you don't get crap.. Really a kick in the pants...

No way to fight this kind of mentality.. shame really..

JV

Nothing to keep the vendor from selling to a friend at below market prices to buy back and sell later on the sly either???

Kd

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

 

[classiccues]

Nothing to keep the vendor from selling to a friend at below market prices to buy back and sell later on the sly either???

Kd

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

??? I don't understand your comment? If there is an agreed upon price between the consignee and the consigner, and the price isn't met, the cue doesn't sell...

Do you think people drop off cues without a plan?

JV

 

[$TAKE HOR$E]

How many cues does it take to be a "trunk dealer", one or two rolling cases full? I never heard one dealer complain at the DCC and in fact they probably made out better off of them. I normally take at least 3 or 4 cues to tournaments to try and peddle for lack of a better term and I can guarantee that I have made up for that by turning people onto buying or trading to and from dealers. That being said, if everything goes as planned ill be at the SBE with a few cues and im sure ill let someone get the best end of the deal just for the hell of it.

 

[Kid Dynomite]

??? I don't understand your comment? If there is an agreed upon price between the consignee and the consigner, and the price isn't met, the cue doesn't sell...

Do you think people drop off cues without a plan?

JV

fair enough point. Just saying I can think of scenarios that the vendor can back door the seller/consignee. it goes both ways was my entire point.

Kd

 

[takeitdown]

In business

You get smarter an better or you go extinct.

The real issue is falling cue values. Also a limited supply of vintage customs that are available to buy at a price where you can resell to turn a profit. Its not so easy being a trunk merchant or "legitamate" dealer in a buyers market.

 

[chefjeff]

Be sure and let Allen Hopkins know if you see a trunk dealer. I am sure he would be interested in seeing their cues.

Right. If it is trespassing on private property (google it, it is a lost relic), the owners of the property and their renters of it should be the ones deciding.

That's why "laws" making owners comply with politicians are damaging laws. (think non-smoking dictates)

The beautiful and extremely simple common law concept of private property being integrated into such decisions immediately stops such unnecessary problems in their tracks.

Ta Dah!


Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

no they have no right to sell a cue in a pool hall they don't own or a venue they haven't rented. they guy renting the space for the event or the owner of a pool hall has every right to throw you out. You think mcdonalds is going to let you sit in there lobby and sell soda's cheaper to people walking in the door then what they sell them? Of course not.... You goto a professional football or baseball game you will see plenty of people off the property selling hats and shirts cheaper. Try moving that on their property or inside their gates doing that and you will be out on your ass.

That. Property. Solved!

Jeff Livingston

 

[JB Cases]

My feeling is that any of these venues are gathering places for dealers and buyers of all types. Some people buy a booth and as such are physically tied to a location and they have to wait for customers to come to them. Others wing it by not buying a booth and hoping for chance connections to move their goods. I think it takes all types and I would bet that some of those who bought booths have benefitted by being able to get a good deal on a cue and then turned that cue to someone else for a profit.

I am kind of ambivalent about it really. I think it takes all kinds of people to make a show and as long as there are shows like this there will be folks who peddle their wares "unofficially". Those people run the risk of being barred but they do provide something of a service on some levels.

I personally remember that some of the most upstanding "floating" dealers have literally dragged up to a dozen people to my booth at shows to force them to buy our cases. How can I not like that type of service when there are four or five guys out on the floor bird-dogging customers for me?

Now, on the flip side I have also had the situation where such a dealer has tried to steer a customer away from our booth and when I hear it I flip out and invite the customer to compare all cases and ask the dealer to justify his action. IN every case I have "won" the debate and forced the dealer to admit that he simply wanted to "sell" the guy another case because of some other reason than it being actually a better deal.

 

[cueaddicts]

You get smarter an better or you go extinct.

The real issue is falling cue values. Also a limited supply of vintage customs that are available to buy at a price where you can resell to turn a profit. Its not so easy being a trunk merchant or "legitamate" dealer in a buyers market.

This issue really is really not about cue values, the market, etc. It's about general decency and respect. The vendors at these events lay out a ton of money and effort to come do these shows. Without them, most would agree that these events would very quickly lose their allure. The SBE has made attempts to clean this up in recent years, the Derby....not so much.

It's incredible to see what some people have the stones to do. One story I will always remember is from a past US Open. Dick/Billiardcue had his booth set up back then and a customer was closely looking at one of his South West he had there for sale, about to pull the trigger. Then this guy walks by and grabs the customer, pulling him out of the booth, and slowly shakes his head...telling the customer he didn't want to buy that cue, but he has a nice SW up in his room that the guy needed to see. Boy, that took some gigantic ones.....and if I mentioned who it was that did that, everyone would instantly know him. lol

I really need to write a book sometime....

 

[Lonestar_jim]

I was at a tournament recently.I was in talks with Joe Salazar on a $3500 cue and with Ron Grier (I think that's how his name is spelled) about 2 cues for $1200.
I had already told some friends that was there I was going to offer Joe $3300 for the cue and Ron $1000 or we could negotiate further.
I walked over to ask a friend a score of a match and he started asking me about the cues.I tried to explain to him about inlays,points(cnc,spliced) and inlay materials
.He is new to this kind of thing.So I took out a couple of my personal cues and was explaining some things.Before long we had several people around us discussing this and showing their cues.
About that time the tournament director came over and told us to put the cues away and if we were caught selling any cues in there we would be barred.I said we were just explaining about cues and weren`t selling.We were told to put the cues away and proceeded to go announce over the loud speaker that any caught selling cues would be ask to leave because the vendors paid to be there.
I understand that but we weren`t selling.
I don`t know which one said something to the tournament director but it cost both of them a sale.
I had over 12k on me and have a very large collection of cues.Ron and Joe both saw the cash so they knew I wasn`t b.s.ing them.
Sometimes it`s better to keep your mouth shut,it cost both of them a sale and I will never attend another one of the tournament directors events.

Yes that's a hard situation for the vendors. It sounds like all the enthusiasm for cues taking place outside the seller's Booth drew suspicion. It's too bad that the director didn't believe you, but I can see that he needs to please the vendors foremost. Was this handled properly? I think so... who knows what someone "saw". Perspectives vary.

 

[Kid Dynomite]

After 4 plus pages of responses and NO consensus???

I want the dealers to give members the 10 commandments of cue sale etiquette.

One cue OK at show?
Three cues OK?
No cue trade in's?
Ok sales with friends?
Provide some scenarios that are ok and what is not? People want clarity. Not have some tournament director run up on them cause a vendor is paranoid and thinks something fishy MAY be going on and sent him over.

What do cue vendors want and expect? What are the vendors willing to do in return? Like Pt109 said it is all about communication. The little guy's seem to be getting the brunt of it for a few abusive people.

KD

 

[Worminator]

It's incredible to see what some people have the stones to do. One story I will always remember is from a past US Open. Dick/Billiardcue had his booth set up back then and a customer was closely looking at one of his South West he had there for sale, about to pull the trigger. Then this guy walks by and grabs the customer, pulling him out of the booth, and slowly shakes his head...telling the customer he didn't want to buy that cue, but he has a nice SW up in his room that the guy needed to see. Boy, that took some gigantic ones.....and if I mentioned who it was that did that, everyone would instantly know him. lol

Bet it wouldn't take too many guesses...

 

[cuesblues]

After 4 plus pages of responses and NO consensus???

I want the dealers to give members the 10 commandments of cue sale etiquette.

One cue OK at show?
Three cues OK?
No cue trade in's?
Ok sales with friends?
Provide some scenarios that are ok and what is not? People want clarity. Not have some tournament director run up on them cause a vendor is paranoid and thinks something fishy MAY be going on and sent him over.

What do cue vendors want and expect? What are the vendors willing to do in return? Like Pt109 said it is all about communication. The little guy's seem to be getting the brunt of it for a few abusive people.

KD

This isn't about a consensus, it's AZ Billiards.
This is the same crowd that looks for every angle possible to get-around and even disregard simple 48-hour bumping policies.
I doubt the Ten Commandments of billiard expo cue selling is going to carry a lot of weight, or even make sense if history has anything to say about it.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

After 4 plus pages of responses and NO consensus???

I want the dealers to give members the 10 commandments of cue sale etiquette.

One cue OK at show?
Three cues OK?
No cue trade in's?
Ok sales with friends?
Provide some scenarios that are ok and what is not? People want clarity. Not have some tournament director run up on them cause a vendor is paranoid and thinks something fishy MAY be going on and sent him over.

What do cue vendors want and expect? What are the vendors willing to do in return? Like Pt109 said it is all about communication. The little guy's seem to be getting the brunt of it for a few abusive people.

KD

I'm not a cue vendor but I'd like to take a shot at this.

Mine would simply be two commandments.

1. Don't be a rule-breaker. If you bring cues with you to an event and attempt to find new prospective customers for those cues while there, and you sidestep the vendors who paid for that very privilege, then, imo, you are breaking the rules.

If you don't think you are breaking any rules, check with Allen Hopkins or whomever is running the event you are at.

2. Be considerate.

There are 3 main pieces to the puzzle that are all needed for success.

Vendors who pay for booths, competitors who pay entry fees, and customers who make purchases.

These three groups should be appreciative and respectful for each other.

best,
brian kc

 

[classiccues]

BTW its not "our" rules, its Allen's rules. He has thrown people out for doing it, and I don't think that the concept is that difficult.

The promoter / organizer said NO.

JV

After 4 plus pages of responses and NO consensus???

I want the dealers to give members the 10 commandments of cue sale etiquette.

One cue OK at show?
Three cues OK?
No cue trade in's?
Ok sales with friends?
Provide some scenarios that are ok and what is not? People want clarity. Not have some tournament director run up on them cause a vendor is paranoid and thinks something fishy MAY be going on and sent him over.

What do cue vendors want and expect? What are the vendors willing to do in return? Like Pt109 said it is all about communication. The little guy's seem to be getting the brunt of it for a few abusive people.

KD

 

[classiccues]

Think Detroit Rock City and Cameras...

Just a guess...

JV

This issue really is really not about cue values, the market, etc. It's about general decency and respect. The vendors at these events lay out a ton of money and effort to come do these shows. Without them, most would agree that these events would very quickly lose their allure. The SBE has made attempts to clean this up in recent years, the Derby....not so much.

It's incredible to see what some people have the stones to do. One story I will always remember is from a past US Open. Dick/Billiardcue had his booth set up back then and a customer was closely looking at one of his South West he had there for sale, about to pull the trigger. Then this guy walks by and grabs the customer, pulling him out of the booth, and slowly shakes his head...telling the customer he didn't want to buy that cue, but he has a nice SW up in his room that the guy needed to see. Boy, that took some gigantic ones.....and if I mentioned who it was that did that, everyone would instantly know him. lol

I really need to write a book sometime....

 

[cuenut]

I have never been able to attend any of the major events like SBE and DCC, but have mixed emotions about this subject. I don't think the average collector like myself goes to any venue exclusively to buy/sell/trade with a vendor, but you guys are the first place we visit. I might show up with 8 or so cues and would hope to trade up with a dealer first, but why wouldn't I consider another cue, simply because it wasn't in a vendor's booth? Also, in many cases, dealers get special pricing on new cues from cuemakers that I can't get. So I have a cue that is not marketable to a dealer in terms of an outright sale or trade, and that would mean getting a pawnshop-like offer. nothing wrong with that, but I wouldn't do it if I don't really need the money. I like to upgrade, and if someone else knows what I have and has the money to buy it for a price I can accept, I would sell. I do feel that since I am more of a collector than a player, I would also consider paying a small fee to bring in cues if I intend to do it for the duration of the tournament, as opposed to going for one day to take my chances. I am not familiar with fees for booths, but is there a graduated fee for the number of cues/cases you take to sell, or flat rate for a table? I assume the latter. I can sympathize with both sides. If someone undermines a deal like the SW story mentioned earlier, that is a different story.