It's definitely the pocket angles. Brunswicks are generally 50+ year old commercial tables which have taken a lot of abuse. Over time, the subrail wood behind the pocket facings starts to deteriorate which creates a wider pocket angle. The wider pocket angle rebounds the object ball into the opposite jaw rather than into the pocket which causes balls to often hang up. Very frustrating.
what causes so many shots to hang
- Thread starter deanoc
- Start date
He’s hitting it bad. That’s all there is to it.
If it was an Olhausen or hacked up 60 year old GC it might be a different story.
For a new Brunswick table he hit the rail going in. That’s it.
If it was an Olhausen or hacked up 60 year old GC it might be a different story.
For a new Brunswick table he hit the rail going in. That’s it.
So the cue made him miss?? I thought it was the Indian and not the arrow that mattered.
That happens all the time on Diamond bar boxes, just clip the rail with any pace on the way in and you will jaw the ball. I have even seen the ball sit there and laugh at me sometimes.
Oh yeah, the crackpot schmelke hybrid collab is a dud
Playing on pool tables with tighter, smaller pockets is obviously a lot more difficult, i.e., challenging, than playing with
more spacious size pockets. IMO, any pocket size approaching 5” is a great way to start as a new player. You will pocket more balls and your introduction to pocket billiards will become more fun and satisfying so you’d enjoy the experience and embrace the game we all have come to love. And that’s more than enough for a lot of pool players.
If you are ambitious and enjoy the game of pool, you will want to progress and improve. You start out with getting your
own cue stick, playing more often and appreciating that the game gets much harder as the pocket size gets smaller. Now there are standards for pool equipment including pool tables, pool balls and cue sticks. As your skills improve, smaller pockets just aren’t as daunting as before. In fact, it becomes a gauge of how good a player you’ve become.
Missing a shot is more than bothersome. Personally, it is infuriating because when I miss, I don’t miss the pocket, I tease it. And seeing the OB sit there and not go in is more than aggravating because I did something wrong. So I accept the frustration and use it as motivation. Pain is an excellent teacher because it leaves a indelible impression.
You remember it much longer than a pleasurable experience. Adversity can and does make you stronger when you
persevere and push through it. It can take awhile to overcome but call it stubbornness or commitment but when you
do overcome it, the exhilaration is a powerful motivator to try even harder. If I could play on a table with 4” pockets, I’d relish the opportunity because returning to 4 1/4” and 4 1/2” pockets would be so much easier. The greater the challenge, the better you’ll become if you have a competitive personality.
Play on a 10’ table and switch to a 9’, it is so much easier. Play on a 9’and switch to a 7’, it’s the same thing. We play
pool because we enjoy the game. Some people like to play short golf courses with low slope ratings and other prefer longer courses with very tough slopes. It is still golf no matter which type course your prefer and as long as you have fun, that’s all that matters because it what keeps us coming back.
I think it helps to realistically align your expectations at the outset on just how good you want to become because otherwise you may become frustrated with your progress, or lack of any. Pool should be an easy game but it isn’t unless you put in the time to learn it and put in the practice time to eliminate bad habits or any swing flaws.
more spacious size pockets. IMO, any pocket size approaching 5” is a great way to start as a new player. You will pocket more balls and your introduction to pocket billiards will become more fun and satisfying so you’d enjoy the experience and embrace the game we all have come to love. And that’s more than enough for a lot of pool players.
If you are ambitious and enjoy the game of pool, you will want to progress and improve. You start out with getting your
own cue stick, playing more often and appreciating that the game gets much harder as the pocket size gets smaller. Now there are standards for pool equipment including pool tables, pool balls and cue sticks. As your skills improve, smaller pockets just aren’t as daunting as before. In fact, it becomes a gauge of how good a player you’ve become.
Missing a shot is more than bothersome. Personally, it is infuriating because when I miss, I don’t miss the pocket, I tease it. And seeing the OB sit there and not go in is more than aggravating because I did something wrong. So I accept the frustration and use it as motivation. Pain is an excellent teacher because it leaves a indelible impression.
You remember it much longer than a pleasurable experience. Adversity can and does make you stronger when you
persevere and push through it. It can take awhile to overcome but call it stubbornness or commitment but when you
do overcome it, the exhilaration is a powerful motivator to try even harder. If I could play on a table with 4” pockets, I’d relish the opportunity because returning to 4 1/4” and 4 1/2” pockets would be so much easier. The greater the challenge, the better you’ll become if you have a competitive personality.
Play on a 10’ table and switch to a 9’, it is so much easier. Play on a 9’and switch to a 7’, it’s the same thing. We play
pool because we enjoy the game. Some people like to play short golf courses with low slope ratings and other prefer longer courses with very tough slopes. It is still golf no matter which type course your prefer and as long as you have fun, that’s all that matters because it what keeps us coming back.
I think it helps to realistically align your expectations at the outset on just how good you want to become because otherwise you may become frustrated with your progress, or lack of any. Pool should be an easy game but it isn’t unless you put in the time to learn it and put in the practice time to eliminate bad habits or any swing flaws.
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yes to the above.
but also most new expensive tables are being bought for new big houses and not for players intent on improving their games with tight pockets.
there is a call for both. should be clear in the marketing what you are getting. but it isnt. if all tables are tightened then most new players will never get to enjoy the game and move on. that stops the sales of many new tables and hurts pool in general.
and tight pockets might help your ball pocketing if you dont work hard at hitting the sides of the pockets to help with position.
tight pockets are also harder to get position with so hurt the average player much more than the very good players. as they can overcome not having to cheat a pocket as much and have better aiming skills.
but also most new expensive tables are being bought for new big houses and not for players intent on improving their games with tight pockets.
there is a call for both. should be clear in the marketing what you are getting. but it isnt. if all tables are tightened then most new players will never get to enjoy the game and move on. that stops the sales of many new tables and hurts pool in general.
and tight pockets might help your ball pocketing if you dont work hard at hitting the sides of the pockets to help with position.
tight pockets are also harder to get position with so hurt the average player much more than the very good players. as they can overcome not having to cheat a pocket as much and have better aiming skills.
The reason for this is that you likely have unrepaired Red Labels with the rails slightly tilted down from the "proper" down angle.. This causes the rail edge to "lift up" the balls as they hit the rail and bounce off. This effect is magnified when humidity levels rise. This also has the affect of shortening the response angle if you brush a rail while shooting a ball into a corner, often shortening a shot that would have "slid in" off the rail, into an angle that hits the pocket facing. I bet those tables ping pong the balls back and forth offtherails, to the extent it almost seems like balls "pick up speed" when struck into a rail firmly...
You can test if this is the issue by banking the cue ball at the middle point of the rail from the center pocket, and seeing if it banks into the corner... I had a Red Label in Florida that banked a FULL diamond short of the corner, when hit with a moderate center ball hit. It is possible to repair the downangle, but it takes some time, and is not exactly cheap. Requires the subrail to be rebuilt/recut.
My Red Label quite likely cost me a win in the One Pocket division at DCC against John Morra, the year he won the the Banks. I had him down 2-1, and had multiple shots at a cross corner to finish him off. My table required not only overcutting all cross corner banks, but also precise speed control. You could only get anywhere close to a "normal" angle on banks, if you rolled them. Sure, if I was better at adjusting to weird table conditions, I might have been able to compensate, but I am a weekend warrior, with not a ton of time to practice. That year I was between jobs for a few months, and ended up wiring in some bad ways of hitting banks, that did not move well to the Blue Labels Derby was using by that time.
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I got a 4 1/8" inch Blue Label Diamond. I absolutely love it
See my post about the Red Labels. There was a design flaw that resulted in bad rail downangles. It has since been fixed in all the Blue Labels.. But unfortunately, there are still a lot of Red Labels out there in pool halls.Has anyone picked on Diamond yet?
A lot of things can cause that from the pocket itself (shelf depth, facings, excessive shims, inserts, etc) to the way you play the shot (pace, imparted spin, angle to the pocket). My experience watching and playing: usually if it rattles or hangs it was the wrong speed. Assuming the table isn't set up really weird/poorly.
I bet if your exact new table in Germany was in your old house in Florida, (and the old one was still there), you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between the two. I’ve been to several rooms that had both red and blue right next to each other to form this opinion.
Of course. They're Vegan Gremlins.
That's the gremlins you hear!!
And I am betting you're wrong. There is absolutely no way to mistake the effect of the downangle being incorrect, ifyou know what you're looking for. It was a design flaw in the Red Labels, that got corrected in the Blue Labels. Plenty of Red Labels have actually been retroactively repaired.
I challenge you to post a video of a Blue Label banking a full diamond short from center to corner, with only a moderate hit. You talk a bunch stuff about how bad the Blue Labels play... Well, prove it to us with video.
Yep, the subrail angle was changed on the Blues per RKC's recommendation. I have access to a red pro-am and a couple old pro's. yes they bank a tad short but its not the massive difference some go on about. the blues play fine. changing the sr angle on a red has been done to a lot of tables.
Agree here. Blue labels DO play a lil 'hotter' than a Gold Crown but nothing close to what some go on-n-on-on-on-on-on-n-on about. Don't like them don't play but pleeeeeeeease stop the whining.
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I measured a Red Label at Starcade Billiards, the angle was 145. Hung or spit out plenty of balls
True I need a better stroke
145° pocket facing angles is way too punitive, regardless of how wide the pocket mouths are.I measured a Red Label at Starcade Billiards, the angle was 145. Hung or spit out plenty of balls
How dare youthat shelf is deeper than a justnum post.