What could Efren give up today?

The correct spot would be???

  • Total voters
    87
  • Poll closed .
hemicudas

hemicudas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What do you think Efren could give up under this scenario?

Let’s take one of if not the straightest shooters in this country, Cory Duel, who himself is a great one pocket player. Let’s give him a coach. The only one pocket mind close to that of Efren’s. Let’s give him Ronnie Allen. Ronnie’s playing ability is a mere fraction of his glory days, yet his one pocket mind think is still totally intact.

What would be a fair game assuming, Cory, executed all the shots, Ronnie suggested? Even? Small weight? Large weight? You tell me???
 
hemicudas said:
What do you think Efren could give up under this scenario?

Let’s take one of if not the straightest shooters in this country, Cory Duel, who himself is a great one pocket player. Let’s give him a coach. The only one pocket mind close to that of Efren’s. Let’s give him Ronnie Allen. Ronnie’s playing ability is a mere fraction of his glory days, yet his one pocket mind think is still totally intact.

What would be a fair game assuming, Cory, executed all the shots, Ronnie suggested? Even? Small weight? Large weight? You tell me???
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Everyone has a different perspecitive on what is going on when a cue ball is struck. In other words your idea and mine on what "punching' a ball is may be very very different.. If this could be overcome as you seem to be implying in your model and also assuming all the shots were executed properly. This is a big leap but:


Given that Efren needs a ball if not 2.
 
Ronnie was a threat to come with an amazing shot and run out playing one pocket. Just because he can see a creative shot, doesnt mean that anyone can execute it. Nothing against Corey....hes a world class player. Efren on the other hand is as creative as anyone. I think 10-7 would be close. This is what Efren gives Cliff. JMO.

Southpaw
 
hemicudas said:
What do you think Efren could give up under this scenario?

Let’s take one of if not the straightest shooters in this country, Cory Duel, who himself is a great one pocket player. Let’s give him a coach. The only one pocket mind close to that of Efren’s. Let’s give him Ronnie Allen. Ronnie’s playing ability is a mere fraction of his glory days, yet his one pocket mind think is still totally intact.

What would be a fair game assuming, Cory, executed all the shots, Ronnie suggested? Even? Small weight? Large weight? You tell me???
Click to expand...

Bill,

Intriguing matchup. IMHO Cory/Ronnie get small weight. It would be a 1P sweaters wet dream:)
 
hemicudas said:
What do you think Efren could give up under this scenario?

Let’s take one of if not the straightest shooters in this country, Cory Duel, who himself is a great one pocket player. Let’s give him a coach. The only one pocket mind close to that of Efren’s. Let’s give him Ronnie Allen. Ronnie’s playing ability is a mere fraction of his glory days, yet his one pocket mind think is still totally intact.

What would be a fair game assuming, Cory, executed all the shots, Ronnie suggested? Even? Small weight? Large weight? You tell me???
Click to expand...

On paper it seems like an even match, but good players have big egos and great players have huge egos. I doubt that Cory could play with Ronnie's style given his own style is pretty sporty, even if Ronnie was pointing out the shots. No one saw the shots Ronnie did and no one sees the shots Efren does. But if Cory could adapt to Ronnie's style and keep his ability to pocket and run balls, what a match it would be. Small weight would win it for them. John Henderson
 
Wow, that would be great to see. I think it would be too close to call, I mean I wouldn't be comfortable betting on either side.

What I'd really like to see would be Reyes vs Blomdahl with Ronnie Allen coaching him. Blomdahl can execute anything that Reyes can and probably more. With Ronnie Allen coaching him I honestly think Reyes may need a ball.

Bobby
 
I would definitely love to see this matchup. It would be interesting to see Corey's shotmaking against Efren's lockup strategies. I'd still say EFren would have to give up 2, but then again I've made the error of betting against Corey in the past - especially the 2004 US Open 9 Ball where he came back from 5-9 down to get past Efren. :confused:

Corey is one of the best, most imaginative shotmakers in history - which makes this a very interesting matchup against IMO the greatest ever to hold a cue in his hands.
 
Cory is a great shooter but Efren is a great shot maker. There is a difference, to my way of thinking anyway. A great shooter to me can pot balls from anywhere on the table. A great shot maker can create a shot where there was none. This is where Efren gets ya. Plus, being a "magician' is worth a ball so I make it 9-7. Without Ronnie coaching, 10-6.

I would pay good money for front row, Pel
 
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Very interesting. I voted for 10-8. The only weakness I could think of might be in the Allen -> Deuel communications pipeline. :)
 
Pelican said:
Cory is a great shooter but Efren is a great shot maker. There is a difference, to my way of thinking anyway. A great shooter to me can pot balls from anywhere on the table. A great shot maker can create a shot where there was none. This is where Efren gets ya. Plus, being a "magician' is worth a ball so I make it 9-7. Without Ronnie coaching, 10-6.

I would pay good money for front row, Pel
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Hey Pel, Please forgive my sarcasm...but....you said Cory needs 10 to 6 against Efren with no coach......aah no, seeing as how Cory played Efren at the DCC this year for several thousand with 10 to 7.......AND WON.
 
Great insight!

jrhendy said:
On paper it seems like an even match, but good players have big egos and great players have huge egos. I doubt that Cory could play with Ronnie's style given his own style is pretty sporty, even if Ronnie was pointing out the shots. No one saw the shots Ronnie did and no one sees the shots Efren does. But if Cory could adapt to Ronnie's style and keep his ability to pocket and run balls, what a match it would be. Small weight would win it for them. John Henderson
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This is the best take I have seen on this subject. You have extracted perfectly the flaw in the match-up. No wonder you are a good 1pkt player. Cory would have to buy into, and believe in Ronnies style. To do that, Ronnie would have to give up the secret reasons why Cory should do what he is told. To make the shots work, Cory would have to believe wholeheartedly in what he is being told to do. I know Ronnie, and with a gun to his head he wouldnt give up the real reasons behind his strategy to a straight shooter like Cory just to win a bet. He might not tell his own son.

the Beard
 
Southpaw said:
Ronnie was a threat to come with an amazing shot and run out playing one pocket. Just because he can see a creative shot, doesnt mean that anyone can execute it. Nothing against Corey....hes a world class player. Efren on the other hand is as creative as anyone. I think 10-7 would be close. This is what Efren gives Cliff. JMO.

Southpaw
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When did Efren ever give Cliff 10-7, seems very unlikely he ever did. Efren tortured Corey giving him 9-7 but Corey won getting 10-7.
 
I wouldn't be surprised that I'm in the minority.

hemicudas said:
What do you think Efren could give up under this scenario?

Let’s take one of if not the straightest shooters in this country, Cory Duel, who himself is a great one pocket player. Let’s give him a coach. The only one pocket mind close to that of Efren’s. Let’s give him Ronnie Allen. Ronnie’s playing ability is a mere fraction of his glory days, yet his one pocket mind think is still totally intact.

What would be a fair game assuming, Cory, executed all the shots, Ronnie suggested? Even? Small weight? Large weight? You tell me???
Click to expand...

$Bill, cool thought. While everyone has an opinion.........:D
This is a pretty neat question, since I was at the Derby City Classic this year and I was sweating Bata playing chess for $10 a game. The guy he was playing was trying real hard but he was no match for the Magician. As I watched Efren beat the guy every game, Corey Deuel would come up to the table and ask, "Efren, do you want to play some $200 a game one pocket?" to which Efren would say, "I'm playing chess" and he would kind of smirk or maybe it was a cross between a smile and a smirk. So Corey looks kind of puzzled and he wants to play Efren about as bad as I want to play Corey in a tournament at Buffalo Billiards.

Corey's looking at Efren kind of hurt and says Efren, don't you like playing me?" Efren says "Sure" but I'm playing chess right now
to which Corey exhorts, "BUT YOU'RE ONLY PLAYING FOR $10 A GAME". Corey goes off comes back and Efren is still pounding on this guy who plays real slow. My feet are starting to ache. I had an Inside Pool magazine with Efren's face all over the cover and I had a friend who asks me to get different memorabilia from the pool tournaments I play in and so I pull out a Sharpie Marking Pen (THE BEST TOOL for an autograph hound)
and ask Efren to sign. He does without much emotion but signs it politely all the while never letting up on this poor guy he is playing chess with. Efren is just watching the chess board and there is Cory trying to persuade Efren to play some $200 a game one pocket 9-7 and Efren says "Well, maybe I play you some one pocket race for $2000". Corey licked his wounds and walked away while Efren continued to pound on his ever-trying chess opponent. So I voted 10-7 and the reason I think 10-7 would be an even game rather than 9-7 is that when you are being coached by someone, a strong willed person like Corey, would be tortured listening to Ronnie Allen saying, "Now Corey play safe on this shot, slide the cue ball between those two balls; (in the meantime Corey sees a 82.5 degree cut next to the rail that he could make and win the game) we got him locked up and there's no way he can get out of this safety" and his A game (whatever that is) would be negatively impacted. Corey knows enough safeties to take care of himself. He just chooses not to use them and prefers his brand of agressive style one pocket. Corey's makeup is not designed for safety play as such in the game of one pocket and having a coach would be a hindrance rather than a help.
JoeyA
 
I tell you all what. Take Corey as your shooter or anybody else for that matter and than get Ronnie, Freddie, Jimmy Fusco, Cliff, and anybody else you want as a commitee of coaches and than get 100,000+ together and see if they want 8-7 from efren... Not exactly!! Next Question Please
 
Pride is an unbelievable thing. I love hearing how Efren never shoots the right shots and how so and so of the older players would have done this or that to efren. Well he gives anybody in the world 9-7 imagine if he shot the right shots
 
wayne said:
When did Efren ever give Cliff 10-7, seems very unlikely he ever did. Efren tortured Corey giving him 9-7 but Corey won getting 10-7.
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In addition to the above, Efren did beat Cliff 10-7, 9-7 at DCC. And it is my opinion that Corey wouldn't have to like it 10-7 if he was playing a "fresh" Efren. Corey played well in that match but Efren missed many shots he usually makes. Either way, I would pay money get close up & personal if that match ever took place. Would love to hear as well as see what Ronnie knows, if he'd tell!
 
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JoeyA said:
As I watched Efren beat the guy every game, Corey Deuel would come up to the table and ask, "Efren, do you want to play some $200 a game one pocket?" to which Efren would say, "I'm playing chess" and he would kind of smirk or maybe it was a cross between a smile and a smirk. So Corey looks kind of puzzled and he wants to play Efren about as bad as I want to play Corey in a tournament at Buffalo Billiards.
Click to expand...

I think Efren's about as excited to play for $200 a game as I am to play for $2 a game.
 
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