What could we do as players, etc. to better the image of pool

[bandido]

Johnnyt has said it all, and I totally agree.

imho i'd love to make pool image looks better, because the way it looks in our country now isn't that good. They don't even consider it as a good sport which is heart-breaking for ppl like myself.

whenever my parents or family knew I was going to the pool hall, They automatically picture it in their brains as I am going to some club or a place to waste my time..... which is sad. I hope i can change this image. Lets hope years will change it OK.

I hope for pool to be something classy, like when you tell some randoms about Golf tournoment or Tennis Tournoment or even snooker tournoment.. even when they don't know tennis or golf, they will still consider it a game for gentelmen and money and famous. unlike the way they see pool..

If you are where your location states then somebody there have taken steps towards improving the sport there. I have recieved word that an affiliation request to the BMPAP is forthcoming. Yes we're willing to help your country's association with attendance of our players to your tournaments, in planning and operations of such, in the use of our players' draw appeal in recruiting sponsors and marketing to your citizenry. Your association members will also be welcome to our upcoming events.

Edwin Reyes
BMPAP co-Founder

 

[MasterClass]

Do we really want to play pool in vest and bow tie like the snooker guys?

I think a well designed collared polo t-shirt is probably the best. Pool should have a style on its own and maybe when it gets popular enough it will attract the attention of Nike to make apparels for the sport! Cool pool tee that is stretchable, does not crease, dry fit! Makes any pool player neat and feeling comfy. But I think we are a long way away........

 

[jamesroberts]

Hard to know where to start with the above!

You start by offering clear evidence of what many would already agree to be one of the main fundamental problems i.e. that not enough people, especially pool players, actually want to 'watch' pool no matter what the brilliance of the players available to be watched might be......yet in almost the same breath you appear to then make the incredible suggestion that those people who have already proved they have little interest in watching pool should dip into their pockets (via the organisations they pay fees to) in order to help fund the pros to play still more pool that an insignificant number of the members of those organisations want to watch!!!!!

I doubt if you intended your suggestion to read quite as crass as that cold devil's advocate assessment does ......but surely you can see how it can appear to some?

I'm just giving my assessments of 20 years of playing and being around pool. I'm sure I could criticize your views, however you didn't make any

 

[Nine Ball]

My worthless thoughts is pool will never be more than it is now...

The IPT was it's only shot at becoming something huge but that went under real fast..

If the IPT would have taken off then we would of had a new pool world..

What do I know though....

 

[memikey]

I'm just giving my assessments of 20 years of playing and being around pool. I'm sure I could criticize your views, however you didn't make any

Sorry if that came across wrong James.

You yourself have had 20 years of watching the indifference of pool playing and non pool playing potential audiences....I've had 35 years observing the same indifference of pool players and non pool players, in many parts of the world. If I had a dollar for evryone who thinks I'm stark staring mad to enjoy playing or watching pool I'd be a millionaire. Someone else might have 40/50 years watching that indifference to our game from potential audiences.......all of that is somewhat irrelevant though.......my point or question was that what would lead us to think that the proposal of amateur players/organisations funding more pro tournaments would either change that indifference or improve pool's image?

You validly point out that I have expressed no views on what would improve pool's image. I really wish I knew James. The morbid view expressed by many already is that pool's image is beyond redemption. I don't really think it's even mainly an image problem, it's more a problem of the very nature of pool. It simply has no mass appeal as a watchable tournament sport. No amount of image clean-up, even if that could be done, is ever going to make it a darling of any blue chip corporate organistions.

If pool rooms were transformed into whiter than white places full of saints (god forbid) I still don't think any major non-cue-sports brand will be that interested in it as a vehicle for corporate advertising or brand image association. We can't even get participants in tournaments (at any level) to stay behind in any significant numbers and watch the latter stages after they're knocked out, let alone interest any audience from outside pool. That has been the case for umpteen years, it's not a passing phase. The Far East has made some progress audience wise but the lingering impression is still that even there it is unlikely to be sustainable and the demographics there are in any case no way directly comparable to a USA or European type situation.

The purists are not going to like this but it has been pretty obvious for a long long time that the probable only real future for pool as a televised 'sport' is likely to be in some of kind of bastardised form like wrestling with hyped up and exaggerated made for tv characters...........caricatures almost........
"gamblers", "baddies", "goodies", "cheats" etc etc. Most of these matches will be scripted at least in part. The rest of the pool world can in the meantime muddle away at 'real pool' hopefully enjoying in some way a little spin-off "dirty money" from the televised nonsense. Horrifying I know, but what to do?...... you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and you can't force people to enjoy watching a sport that has proved itself over and over again to have virtually zero spectator appeal.

In short, "image" may be a bit of a red herring. It's the inherent nature of the game that's a bigger problem. It's hard for you, me and others on these and other pool boards to accept.....but it's perceived as simple to play and excruciatingly boring to watch by far too big a majority of people over the years for them to all be wrong and for us hard core pool lovers to be right

 

[JAM]

I have come to the conclusion, after speaking with an old-timer the other night, that pool is all about the hustle, more so than the game itself.

If one were to create a poll about which style of pool they prefer to watch, I have a feeling that the hustling between two players with all of its barking before, during, and after is what most would prefer to watch, more so than robots playing mum pool in a church-like setting. DCC is successful because of its non-church-like setting, and people like to see the players hustle. Some call it "action," and others call it "gambling," but when push comes to shove, each player hopes that he has the dead nuts.

Have you ever seen two players trying to match up for a game of action? I have NEVER seen anyone say something to the effect, "Hey, Sausage, instead of spotting you 2 balls, I have changed my mind and want to spot you 3 balls, so that we can have a fair game between us." Each player is trying to hustle the other.

Mainstream TV viewing audience, at least here in the States, don't condone hustling and all that is associated with it, and there are some on this forum who are pool purists and will promote the church-like setting for pool, more so than the hustling atmosphere. Yet, put these pool purists in a room at the DCC, and I can guarantee you that they will be all eyes and ears on the festivities.

JAM

P.S. I am reminded of a semi-finals, I think it was, at a Joss tournament in Chelmsford. Johnny Archer and Nick Varner were getting ready to play for the hot seat in the tournament room.

Elsewhere in the joint, Keith McCready was gambling with The Russian (Evgeny Stalev). Keith and Evgeny both barked at each other with a full crowd of onlookers as they matched up. I think Keith spotted The Russian one ball, if memory serves me right, in long rack banks. I can assure you that each player going in thought he was going to rob the other one in this game of stakes, though at that time, The Russian was somewhat of an unknown entity. However, he pulled out two fat boodles which got Keith's attention and his best game.

There were a half-a-dozen people sweating Archer and Varner in the tournament room. Every other person in the pool room was sweating Keith and The Russian. I rest my case.

 

[Peer]

I have said for year pools (players etc.) needs a new image for corporate America to support Pool. Like they support other sports like the Olympics, NBA, NFL, MLB, Tennis, Golf, PRCA Rodeo, NASCAR, and some of the other sports that corporate America support. Any ideas?

Well, I think there must be quite a few reasons why the image of pool isn't very good.

The main reason might be that there isn't a real strong unifying organization that takes care of the pool players interests, (such as promoting our sport, arranging tournaments, set unified international rules and championships, etc.). APA, BCA, IPT, UPA, WPA, et al. are all a far cry from, for example, how motorcycle racing is promoted by the AMA (American Motorcyclist Association), and this even if there are far less people who ride motorcycles than play pool.

Related to this might also be the devious antics among pool people (even on this forum). Just like you Mr. PoolSleuth (aka CocoboloCowboy) have done for years -- hide behind multiple phony usernames while shooting off nasty private messages to your fellow forum members. Sneaky and dishonest people will never be good for our sport, and it doesn't help that you won't even bother to proofread your sloppy missives before posting, but yet you ask what can be done to improve the image of pool. How ironic.

-- peer

 

[Noncrookedpool]

I like sOLID's ideas, we do need to have clubs where customers might be able to make a distinction between a bar and a first class Pocket Billiard club. In England when a patron becomes a member of a snooker club their membership can include a coach for lessons - and in some clubs it is mandatory, so then the customer can at least look like they know what they are doing. What people do on their own time is their own business, it goes without saying that people should not act like 'SLOBRTYS'.

I was watching a commercial during the World Championships in Taiwan and what do I see? An attractive asian lady who is one of the premier pocket billiard stars whom they have chose to promote, she was just walking with her case down by the market area while she's shopping we see a nine ball mixed in with a pile of the oranges she picks it up and smiles, this does seem like fruit for thought - and the thought is promoting pool in a whole new light. Television and the power of suggestion is powerful, here in the states if we see pool in a commercial nine times out of ten it is associated with either a bar room scene or it's just not geared towards creating a professional image for the game. The bottom line here is in some of the other countries they TRY at least to promote pool as a sport and the demographic is one in which we see one or two attractive people that they want us to recognize as a positive image for promoting pool as a sport and a bright future, kind of like what golf did with Tiger Woods.

Sincerely, Danny Harriman

 

[JAM]

I like sOLID's ideas, we do need to have clubs where customers might be able to make a distinction between a bar and a first class Pocket Billiard club. In England when a patron becomes a member of a snooker club their membership can include a coach for lessons - and in some clubs it is mandatory, so then the customer can at least look like they know what they are doing. What people do on their own time is their own business, it goes without saying that people should not act like 'SLOBRTYS'.

I was watching a commercial during the World Championships in Taiwan and what do I see? An attractive asian lady who is one of the premier pocket billiard stars whom they have chose to promote, she was just walking with her case down by the market area while she's shopping we see a nine ball mixed in with a pile of the oranges she picks it up and smiles, this does seem like fruit for thought - and the thought is promoting pool in a whole new light. Television and the power of suggestion is powerful, here in the states if we see pool in a commercial nine times out of ten it is associated with either a bar room scene or it's just not geared towards creating a professional image for the game. The bottom line here is in some of the other countries they TRY at least to promote pool as a sport and the demographic is one or two attractive people, kind of like what golf did with Tiger Woods.
Sincerely, Danny Harriman

I think you are right about the way pool is showcased in America. However, I do see pool shooting in commercials all the time for a variety of products, but none of the players are actual professional pool players.

Why doesn't Corporate America use pool players for their commercials when they have pool playing? Probably because most pool players don't have agents.

This commercial would be GREAT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut4AdY5CkFY



JAM

 

[memikey]

I have come to the conclusion, after speaking with an old-timer the other night, that pool is all about the hustle, more so than the game itself.

If one were to create a poll about which style of pool they prefer to watch, I have a feeling that the hustling between two players with all of its barking before, during, and after is what most would prefer to watch, more so than robots playing mum pool in a church-like setting. DCC is successful because of its non-church-like setting, and people like to see the players hustle. Some call it "action," and others call it "gambling," but when push comes to shove, each player hopes that he has the dead nuts.

Have you ever seen two players trying to match up for a game of action? I have NEVER seen anyone say something to the effect, "Hey, Sausage, instead of spotting you 2 balls, I have changed my mind and want to spot you 3 balls, so that we can have a fair game between us." Each player is trying to hustle the other.

Mainstream TV viewing audience, at least here in the States, don't condone hustling and all that is associated with it, and there are some on this forum who are pool purists and will promote the church-like setting for pool, more so than the hustling atmosphere. Yet, put these pool purists in a room at the DCC, and I can guarantee you that they will be all eyes and ears on the festivities.

JAM

P.S. I am reminded of a semi-finals, I think it was, at a Joss tournament in Chelmsford. Johnny Archer and Nick Varner were getting ready to play for the hot seat in the tournament room.

Elsewhere in the joint, Keith McCready was gambling with The Russian (Evgeny Stalev). Keith and Evgeny both barked at each other with a full crowd of onlookers as they matched up. I think Keith spotted The Russian one ball, if memory serves me right, in long rack banks. I can assure you that each player going in thought he was going to rob the other one in this game of stakes, though at that time, The Russian was somewhat of an unknown entity. However, he pulled out two fat boodles which got Keith's attention and his best game.

There were a half-a-dozen people sweating Archer and Varner in the tournament room. Every other person in the pool room was sweating Keith and The Russian. I rest my case.

Perfectly put, makes a LOT of sense, thanks for that insight.

I think it also illustrates a possible kind of halfway-house between the deliberately grotesque wrestling style example I gave as being at one end of the extreme and the tournament pool purist scenario at the other end. If someone can refine and package some kind of halfway-house based on those kinds of fundamentals there may be a niche market for it, certainly moreso than for pure tournament pool. The existing image then becomes less of a drawback and more of an asset.

The gents at TAR have made a great start towards this general sort of production. More power to their elbow for the future!

In the meantime The Far East are now blazing forward in the tournament pool direction. If they achieve continued success so much the better for everyone, everywhere........ in the long run.

 

[ironman]

well i cant really agree with everything you say....... i play pool... i dont smoke and i never drink when i play seriously and i gamble very little....so there are some unfounded stereotypes there......... after giving this some thought the main problem with pool is that there is such a disconnect with
amateur pool players.... the amateurs drive the golf industry but they do nothing for the pool industry

for example i played in atlanta for the seminole tour 10 ball tourney last week, now this was a 8k added event and it only got 48 players. at the same time they were having some kind of league there, apa i think, they must've had 200-300 league players there and maybe like 5-10 came over to watch corey and johnny and 20 other world beaters....i mean some of the best pool players in the world were 50 feet away and nobody cared....if this was a golf tourney are you kidding you couldve charged $50 to get in and it woulda sold out.............it would be nice to see the apa and the bca sponsor a tour with 4-6 tourneys a year for the pros.....give something for the amateur to shoot for

Some of us who run regional tours work our schedules very hard and try not to conflict with anything. The amteurs it seems could care less about anything else going on.
Here in Texas we have the Fast Eddies tour, the Houston Open, and the Texas Open who all work together as not to conflict with each other and it has worked well and takes little effort. Others have come in from out of the area and competed with us and it has only hurt them
I assure you that it is not always about the "buck". If it were, I would be doing something else.

 

[catscradle]

For one thing, not all golfers drink/smoke/gamble. In pool, it is perceived that every player takes part in these activities, and this perception is for the most part correct.

That is absolute nonsense, the percentage of pool players who drink, smoke, and gamble is pretty much the same as the population at large, as is golf. Yeah, on this forum the gamblers get praised like it is some kind of badge of honor, but most league players (who are routinely disparaged here) are in it to have fun. High end "players" are in it to make a buck, but so aren't high-end golfers, they just have the luxury of a profitable tour.

When an average person goes to a pool hall, they get an up close look at these activities and that is all they see. In golf, you don't see this taking place because you are alone with your group on the course.

Your idea for a big tour is a good idea, but it will not happen until there is more money involved. There will not be more money involved until the people with money get involved. The people with money will not get involved until they can take part in the sport. They cannot take part in the sport when all they can do is go to a bar.

The best thing that could happen for pool in the long run, is to shut down completely. Years later it would reopen, hopefully under a completely different image. When a forest becomes wild and overgrown, a fire destroys it and it regrows into a beautiful environment. The same thing needs to happen with pool. Thats why pool halls are closing after the smoking bans. Pool grew into an activity that needs certain types of people to survive (smokers/drinkers/gamblers). If rules were put into effect to cleanse the environment, pool would lose its current business, but hopefully more rooms would open in the future and bring in new customer bases. Until this happens pool will go nowhere.

I see the biggest obstacle for pool is the fact that beginners feel too intimidated to pick up the game later in life. Novices feel like all eyes are on them when they enter the confined area of a pool room and every time they commit a mistake they feel the fool. In golf, you're only feeling the fool in front of 3 other people who are friends anyway.

It isn't booze, drugs, gambling, or dress codes that are the problem; the problem is ordinary people feel intimidated when the walk into a pool room to play.

 

[JAM]

...It isn't booze, drugs, gambling, or dress codes that are the problem; the problem is ordinary people feel intimidated when the walk into a pool room to play.

What is a pool room? That's the $64,000 question. The pool rooms that I used to know and love do not exist anymore.

Some of the BEST pool rooms in my area did not serve alcohol. They were not sports bars. They were actual pool rooms, a place where players could play pool and railbirds could see the best of the best. Today's so-called "pool rooms" are singles bars with loud music.

The very few pool rooms, I mean REAL POOL ROOMS, that exist today are a rare breed, indeed. Those of you who have 'em, enjoy 'em while they last.

JAM

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I am happy for all the replies, and hope they keep coming, some great suggestions.

 

[bfdlad]

Based only on my performance on Sunday at Kolby's I think the best thing I could do as a player to make the sport better is QUIT!

 

[catscradle]

What is a pool room? That's the $64,000 question. The pool rooms that I used to know and love do not exist anymore.

Some of the BEST pool rooms in my area did not serve alcohol. They were not sports bars. They were actual pool rooms, a place where players could play pool and railbirds could see the best of the best. Today's so-called "pool rooms" are singles bars with loud music.

The very few pool rooms, I mean REAL POOL ROOMS, that exist today are a rare breed, indeed. Those of you who have 'em, enjoy 'em while they last.

JAM

I agree with that 100%, the place I'm forced to play is really nothing more than a night club (loud music, even louder people) with 16 pool tables (badly maintained pool tables). The closest real pool room to me would be Country Club and they gave up some of there space from lack of use.

 

[jason]

There is definitely a problem with pools image today. Hollywood is probably the biggest contributor to supporting this image, but it's not all there fault.

The game originally created in Europe. I believed this evolved when it move to the United States. As with everything else that America brought from over seas, we made it our own. Like the gunslingers and gamblers of the old west, the players of the mid 1900s looked for a faster, more lucrative game. This, I think, is where the popularity of nineball and the hustler were born.

The 70s, 80s, and even the 90s continued this bad boy image with a lot gambling and hustling being played and backed for drug money. To a certain degree, America loves this image. I dont think we would like our Harleys and leather jacket as well as our cowboy movies and Texas Holdem if we didn't.

Although the public image remains the same, the day of the hustler is gone. In the mid 80's, pool leagues became popular for the social player. A players speed became common knowledge and for the most part the hustler was being exposed. Books, videos, the internet all became available to expose the power and knowledge of the huster. The samething has happed with the explosion on knowledge in poker. Pool takes a lot of practice, hand-eye cordination, and talent to play well.

So here we are today. A split society of league players, social players, a few struggling hustlers and tournament players following a group of tours more fractured than a sheet of glass dropped from the Empire State building. Every league and tour doing what is in their best interest to try to squeek out a living. Not to mention that we have a generation of kids with so many activities competing for their entertainment dollar, including poker and video games.

The many different leagues and tours are not the problem, but the solution. These are the organizations that keep pool going today. The key is finding a way to unite the league players and the tournament players so both have something to gain. Until a plan is devised to do this, we will continue to have the same type of pool atmosphere we have today, if not worse.

 

[lodini]

As Jude reminded me in a recent thread... this image was set long ago. The Music Man was originally on Broadway in 1957.

"Ya Got Trouble" from the Music Man.


Harold:
Well, either you're closing your eyes
To a situation you do now wish to acknowledge
Or you are not aware of the caliber of disaster indicated
By the presence of a pool table in your community.
Ya got trouble, my friend, right here,
I say, trouble right here in River City.
Why sure I'm a billiard player,
Certainly mighty proud I say
I'm always mighty proud to say it.
I consider that the hours I spend
With a cue in my hand are golden.
Help you cultivate horse sense
And a cool head and a keen eye.
Never take and try to give
An iron-clad leave to yourself
From a three-reail billiard shot?
But just as I say,
It takes judgement, brains, and maturity to score
In a balkline game,
I say that any boob kin take
And shove a ball in a pocket.
And they call that sloth.
The first big step on the road
To the depths of deg-ra-Day--
I say, first, medicinal wine from a teaspoon,
Then beer from a bottle.
An' the next thing ya know,
Your son is playin' for money
In a pinch-back suit.
And list'nin to some big out-a-town Jasper
Hearin' him tell about horse-race gamblin'.
Not a wholesome trottin' race, no!
But a race where they set down right on the horse!
Like to see some stuck-up jockey'boy
Sittin' on Dan Patch? Make your blood boil?
Well, I should say.
Friends, lemme tell you what I mean.
Ya got one, two, three, four, five, six pockets in a table.
Pockets that mark the diff'rence
Between a gentlemen and a bum,
With a capital "B,"
And that rhymes with "P" and that stands for pool!
And all week long your River City
Youth'll be frittern away,
I say your young men'll be frittern!
Frittern away their noontime, suppertime, choretime too!
Get the ball in the pocket,
Never mind gittin' Dandelions pulled
Or the screen door patched or the beefsteak pounded.
Never mind pumpin' any water
'Til your parents are caught with the Cistern empty
On a Saturday night and that's trouble,
Oh, yes we got lots and lots a' trouble.
I'm thinkin' of the kids in the knickerbockers,
Shirt-tail young ones, peekin' in the pool
Hall window after school, look, folks!
Right here in River City.
Trouble with a capital "T"
And that rhymes with "P" and that stands for pool!
Now, I know all you folks are the right kinda parents.
I'm gonna be perfectly frank.
Would ya like to know what kinda conversation goes
On while they're loafin' around that Hall?
They're tryin' out Bevo, tryin' out cubebs,
Tryin' out Tailor Mades like Cigarette Feends!
And braggin' all about
How they're gonna cover up a tell-tale breath with Sen-Sen.
One fine night, they leave the pool hall,
Headin' for the dance at the Arm'ry!
Libertine men and Scarlet women!
And Rag-time, shameless music
That'll grab your son and your daughter
With the arms of a jungle animal instink!
Mass-staria!
Friends, the idle brain is the devil's playground!

People:
Trouble, oh we got trouble,
Right here in River City!
With a capital "T"
That rhymes with "P"
And that stands for Pool,
That stands for pool.
We've surely got trouble!
Right here in River City,
Right here!
Gotta figger out a way
To keep the young ones moral after school!
Trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble...

Harold:
Mothers of River City!
Heed the warning before it's too late!
Watch for the tell-tale sign of corruption!
The moment your son leaves the house,
Does he rebuckle his knickerbockers below the knee?
Is there a nicotine stain on his index finger?
A dime novel hidden in the corn crib?
Is he starting to memorize jokes from Capt.
Billy's Whiz Bang?
Are certain words creeping into his conversation?
Words like 'swell?"
And 'so's your old man?"
Well, if so my friends,
Ya got trouble,
Right here in River city!
With a capital "T"
And that rhymes with "P"
And that stands for Pool.
We've surely got trouble!
Right here in River City!
Remember the Maine, Plymouth Rock and the Golden Rule!
Oh, we've got trouble.
We're in terrible, terrible trouble.
That game with the fifteen numbered balls is a devil's tool!
Oh yes we got trouble, trouble, trouble!
With a "T"! Gotta rhyme it with "P"!
And that stands for Pool!!!

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Based only on my performance on Sunday at Kolby's I think the best thing I could do as a player to make the sport better is QUIT!

Maybe you promote better then you play.

 

[Gerry]

I have come to the conclusion, after speaking with an old-timer the other night, that pool is all about the hustle, more so than the game itself.

If one were to create a poll about which style of pool they prefer to watch, I have a feeling that the hustling between two players with all of its barking before, during, and after is what most would prefer to watch, more so than robots playing mum pool in a church-like setting. DCC is successful because of its non-church-like setting, and people like to see the players hustle. Some call it "action," and others call it "gambling," but when push comes to shove, each player hopes that he has the dead nuts.

Have you ever seen two players trying to match up for a game of action? I have NEVER seen anyone say something to the effect, "Hey, Sausage, instead of spotting you 2 balls, I have changed my mind and want to spot you 3 balls, so that we can have a fair game between us." Each player is trying to hustle the other.

Mainstream TV viewing audience, at least here in the States, don't condone hustling and all that is associated with it, and there are some on this forum who are pool purists and will promote the church-like setting for pool, more so than the hustling atmosphere. Yet, put these pool purists in a room at the DCC, and I can guarantee you that they will be all eyes and ears on the festivities.

JAM

P.S. I am reminded of a semi-finals, I think it was, at a Joss tournament in Chelmsford. Johnny Archer and Nick Varner were getting ready to play for the hot seat in the tournament room.

Elsewhere in the joint, Keith McCready was gambling with The Russian (Evgeny Stalev). Keith and Evgeny both barked at each other with a full crowd of onlookers as they matched up. I think Keith spotted The Russian one ball, if memory serves me right, in long rack banks. I can assure you that each player going in thought he was going to rob the other one in this game of stakes, though at that time, The Russian was somewhat of an unknown entity. However, he pulled out two fat boodles which got Keith's attention and his best game.

There were a half-a-dozen people sweating Archer and Varner in the tournament room. Every other person in the pool room was sweating Keith and The Russian. I rest my case.

and?.....AND?.....what was th outcome?....don't leave me hangin man!