What cue makers build their own shafts (not using cheap blanks).

[macguy]

Okay, maybe my question was silly. I just remember a local cue maker where I am from that always ordered blanks to make his shafts. I was told that his blanks were from Players (so I guess they are from China). Sorry if my question was stupid. So most cue makers build their own shafts, and that is something that I should not have to worry about if ordering from an unknown cue maker? I am only interested to know of some cue makers that build there own shafts, and use some of the highest quality wood to do it. I know of all of the well known cue makers out there, so I am just interested in the local cue makers that are not very well known yet for their work. I just thought that this would be an interesting question to ask. I am not trying to get any cue makers out there disrespected in any way. I was just very interested to learn of some cue makers that build some high quality shafts (that are not built from blanks). I am very sorry if I was wrong in thinking that some cue makers use low quality blanks to make their shafts. Thanks.

What is your understanding of the term "Blank"? All cue makers, if they are not cutting trees down and milling the wood themselves work from supplied blanks. Some like to start with squares and many like to buy dowels that are already graded. The grading can be subjective at times. Some like to get blanks that have been turned down some as a time saver and pay a premium for this. I have heard of a few guys who bought boards and tried cutting them and grading them themselves. For most it would be a huge waste of time and materials. Like I asked, how do you define the term "Blank"?

 

[Chopdoc]

Players shafts are turned and dried in several stages that takes a year or two to finish and treated with wood stabilizers. I would rather a cue maker used a players than a block of wood that is not turned and dried in stages or treated with stabilizers.

I have a players cue that I break with that's 8 years old and still very straight. A players replacement shaft is only $42 at Ozone. Can't beat that.

I recently obtained a used Players shaft that had matching ring work for one of my old cues. I got it because it was damn cheap and the ring work matched what I needed. The shaft fits perfectly...and it shoot beautifully. I am actually impressed by it. Very pleasantly surprised.

 

[justinb386]

Here is a picture of what I imagine all shaft blanks to look like.

http://www.billiards.com/pool-cue-accessories/ob-2-cue-shaft?utm_campaign=products&utm_source=google&utm_medium=pla&utm_term={keyword}&gclid=CMiXtNrO_7ICFYyZ4AodMigA4A

What I meant by the tern "blank" is a shaft that just needs a joint installed on it, and maybe also a ferrule and a tip. I just thought that it would be more easy for some cue makers to just buy shaft blanks, and build their shafts using a blank (like from an ob2 shaft blank for example). I really do not know anything about cue making, or how to tell if the quality of the shaft wood is good or not. I really did not mean to be disrespectful to any cue makers out there. I was only looking for info about some cue makers that build good quality shafts, but I guess that most cue makers do (from reading the replies that I have read on here). Thanks for all of the info.

What is your understanding of the term "Blank"? All cue makers, if they are not cutting trees down and milling the wood themselves work from supplied blanks. Some like to start with squares and many like to buy dowels that are already graded. The grading can be subjective at times. Some like to get blanks that have been turned down some as a time saver and pay a premium for this. I have heard of a few guys who bought boards and tried cutting them and grading them themselves. For most it would be a huge waste of time and materials. Like I asked, how do you define the term "Blank"?

 

[justinb386]

Okay, I did not know that. Very interesting. I have played with Players cues in the past, and they do hit good.

Players shafts are turned and dried in several stages that takes a year or two to finish and treated with wood stabilizers. I would rather a cue maker used a players than a block of wood that is not turned and dried in stages or treated with stabilizers.

I have a players cue that I break with that's 8 years old and still very straight. A players replacement shaft is only $42 at Ozone. Can't beat that.

 

[justinb386]

I did not mean to insult any cue makers out there. I have not noted any names, so I do not see how I could have insulted anyone. I only said that I remember a local cue maker (this was around 15 years ago) that I was told used blanks from Players cues to build his shafts. I also noted that I did not want anyone to list cue makers that might use lower quality blanks to make their shafts. I was only curious about some local regional cue makers out there (that are not very well known yet) that build their own shafts from good quality wood. I am very sorry if my question was stupid, or insulting in any way. I am just interested to learn about some cue makers out there that I have never heard of. I have been playing for around 19 years, so I know of most of the top cue makers out there. I am only interested to learn about some of the lesser known cue makers out there (that might just build cue part time). Thanks.

Ever played with a Players cue? The shafts aren't bad. I wouldn't necessarily be put off by a cue maker using blanks from them unless he was presenting them as AAA grade top of the heap most precious maple, which they are not.

In general I haven't seen any cue maker using crap shaft wood. That is left to the truly low end mass produced cues....even "lower" than players.

What the cue maker does with it is more important I think. Is it properly seasoned? What taper does he use?

You will often find that you will prefer a taper from a certain maker over others.

You will find arguments about what constitutes good woon even among cue makers. I don't think any of them will argue against high growth ring count, high density, straight grain, well aged maple. But you will find arguments about lots of other things like bowling alley wood, figured wood in shafts, and other things.

In the end, the question as posed is loaded with controversy. As for your local makers, they probably have a variety of sources and qualities of wood available or on-hand. I would talk to them directly about it.

Addressing it this way, here, is really loaded and borders on insulting makers.

As for "cheap" stuff. I have shafts that I have saved from old "cheap" cues because they turned out to be amazingly great wood. I save them to use at some point, maybe get them matched up to some cues that need a shaft. This would certainly be unusual to find today as such grades of maple are getting to be in much shorter supply.


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[TATE]

Here is a picture of what I imagine all shaft blanks to look like.

http://www.billiards.com/pool-cue-accessories/ob-2-cue-shaft?utm_campaign=products&utm_source=google&utm_medium=pla&utm_term={keyword}&gclid=CMiXtNrO_7ICFYyZ4AodMigA4A

What I meant by the tern "blank" is a shaft that just needs a joint installed on it, and maybe also a ferrule and a tip. I just thought that it would be more easy for some cue makers to just buy shaft blanks, and build their shafts using a blank (like from an ob2 shaft blank for example). I really do not know anything about cue making, or how to tell if the quality of the shaft wood is good or not. I really did not mean to be disrespectful to any cue makers out there. I was only looking for info about some cue makers that build good quality shafts, but I guess that most cue makers do (from reading the replies that I have read on here). Thanks for all of the info.

OB and Predator unfinished shafts are not blanks at all - they are just finished shafts that are 30" + long with one unfinished oversized end that can be fitted to any joint.

A shaft blank is a maple dowel that has been rough turned to look like an oversized tapered shaft , usually 30" long. They still need to be tapered down, fitted with a ferrule and tip and rings, tapped for a joint and finished.

If a cue maker buys shaft blanks, they are usually paying more for the material but saving on the labor.

I find it amusing when I read that a cue maker makes all their own parts, including tips and rubber bumpers. If I ever wanted to see a tip that cost a $50 to make and a $75 rubber bumper, I would look for that guy.

Below are some pics of some blanks I have - these are over 40 years old and were used by the premier cue makers of the 1960's and 1970's. A lot of the blanks sold now already have a taper on them and are closer to a finished shaft.

 

[softshot]

McDermott $70.00 you won't find half that shaft at twice the price.. or even triple..

their wood pile dwarfs EVERYBODY else.. by a damn sight.. and now that they are pushing g-cores on all their cues..

the few 100% maple they still make in Wisconsin are now only the best of the best....hitting huge ring counts...

there is no better shaft for the money.... PERIOD

 

[cueman]

If you want opinions on who has the best shaft wood in their cues I think I am one of the top percentage wise. Here is why. I buy thousands of shaft dowels and taper many of them and sell the tapered shaft blanks. While tapering when I spot that two or three out of a hundred that are really tight and clean I pull them for myself. That is only out of the tapered shafts. I do not pull the high end ones out of the dowels. So the cuemakers that buy dowels will also get that two or three out of a hundred really tight clean shafts. There is a lot more wood in the mix that is just as tight, but will not be as pretty. They will play as good, but not look as good. Now can every cuemaker afford to only use that grade? No!
Now when you say cheap blanks, I can tell you that almost no cuemaker orders #2 tapered shaft blanks from me let alone #3. I wind up using them for cores or tenons and such. So A to AAA is all anyone wants. So to find any cuemakers that buy cheap blanks would be rare. Now I have seen some cut corners on lumber, buying the cheap stuff and only using the best out of the bunch and they probably did not save any money in the long run either.
If you are only building a few cues per year, buying partially tapered shaft blanks is the best way to go as you will wind up with almost all usable shafts. If you are building dozens then buying the highest quality dowels are the way to go.
And before I get any requests for extra shafts, those two or three out of a hundred only go on my custom cues. So if it is not a Hightower Cue I am not interested in using one of those blanks for a shaft.

 

[billiardshot]

Dieckman Cue might not be on your Top 10 Cuemaker List. But he should be on your Top 12 Cuemaker List, shaft cost $300 +


An Article from http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/billiards.htm website On Dennis Dieckman Cue Shaft


NEW!!! The Dieckman shaft has arrived! Read how it tested out!

In January of 2006 I decided to see how much a shaft from a custom cue maker would cost and how much better it was than shafts from production houses. After an extensive search through all the cue makers in my link list, it was clear that Dennis Dieckman (Dieckman Cues) provided the most complete explanation of how he selects shaft wood, ages it, and slowly (over a period of years) turns it into a shaft. I contacted him and after several conversations he helped me decide on the best shaft for me. Once this was done, he checked his stock of nearly-complete shafts and suggested two that sounded like they'd fit my needs. After another discussion we decided on a proto-shaft made from 10-year wood (related to the fineness of the grain structure). He said it would take 6-months for the final turnings, aging, and finishing. When I asked how much it would cost I was amazed that it was less than what many production companies charge for their shafts.

The shaft arrived ahead of schedule heavily padded inside doubled-boxes to keep it safe. It was in perfect condition and even came with two extra water buffalo leather tips.

So how good is this shaft by Dennis Dieckman? Simply put, it is without question the finest shaft I have ever seen, measured, or handled. The warp is less than 0.001-inches. This is so straight that it challenged my ability to measure it. In fact it's more likely that what I measured has more to do with the inaccuracies of my equipment or technique. That anyone is able to achieve this high a quality starting with a piece of natural product is unbelievable.

The wood itself is perfectly straight-grained the entire length of the shaft.



The greatly-magnified image above of the shaft taken near the tip shows a grain count of 10 layers over a 13mm diameter. (I had to turn it into a black-and-white image and increase the contrast to make the grains visible. In person they are so fine and uniform that they are almost impossible to see.) This works out to an incredible 20 grains per inch. This means that the tree from which this piece of wood came from grew very slowly and evenly, ideal for the highest quality shaft. What this proved to me was that not only is Mr. Dieckman a first-class artisan, he also knows good wood when he sees it.

All this sounds great but how does the shaft feel and play? The combination of the shaft and tip are perfect for me in that they provide a very solid, mellow sensation when stroking the cue ball. It fills me with a sense of confidence that I've never felt with any other shaft. I couldn't be more pleased with the shaft and if I ever need another one I will purchase it only from Dennis Dieckman.

 

[justinb386]

I just watched a youtube video on Dennis Dieckman showing all of his hanging cue butts and shafts, and explaining his cue making process (below).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SUAiFRV3Xs

I thought he was very funny in the video.

Dieckman Cue might not be on your Top 10 Cuemaker List. But he should be on your Top 12 Cuemaker List, shaft cost $300 +


An Article from http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/billiards.htm website On Dennis Dieckman Cue Shaft


NEW!!! The Dieckman shaft has arrived! Read how it tested out!

In January of 2006 I decided to see how much a shaft from a custom cue maker would cost and how much better it was than shafts from production houses. After an extensive search through all the cue makers in my link list, it was clear that Dennis Dieckman (Dieckman Cues) provided the most complete explanation of how he selects shaft wood, ages it, and slowly (over a period of years) turns it into a shaft. I contacted him and after several conversations he helped me decide on the best shaft for me. Once this was done, he checked his stock of nearly-complete shafts and suggested two that sounded like they'd fit my needs. After another discussion we decided on a proto-shaft made from 10-year wood (related to the fineness of the grain structure). He said it would take 6-months for the final turnings, aging, and finishing. When I asked how much it would cost I was amazed that it was less than what many production companies charge for their shafts.

The shaft arrived ahead of schedule heavily padded inside doubled-boxes to keep it safe. It was in perfect condition and even came with two extra water buffalo leather tips.

So how good is this shaft by Dennis Dieckman? Simply put, it is without question the finest shaft I have ever seen, measured, or handled. The warp is less than 0.001-inches. This is so straight that it challenged my ability to measure it. In fact it's more likely that what I measured has more to do with the inaccuracies of my equipment or technique. That anyone is able to achieve this high a quality starting with a piece of natural product is unbelievable.

The wood itself is perfectly straight-grained the entire length of the shaft.

View attachment 244234

The greatly-magnified image above of the shaft taken near the tip shows a grain count of 10 layers over a 13mm diameter. (I had to turn it into a black-and-white image and increase the contrast to make the grains visible. In person they are so fine and uniform that they are almost impossible to see.) This works out to an incredible 20 grains per inch. This means that the tree from which this piece of wood came from grew very slowly and evenly, ideal for the highest quality shaft. What this proved to me was that not only is Mr. Dieckman a first-class artisan, he also knows good wood when he sees it.

All this sounds great but how does the shaft feel and play? The combination of the shaft and tip are perfect for me in that they provide a very solid, mellow sensation when stroking the cue ball. It fills me with a sense of confidence that I've never felt with any other shaft. I couldn't be more pleased with the shaft and if I ever need another one I will purchase it only from Dennis Dieckman.

 

[RFisher]

Players shafts are turned and dried in several stages that takes a year or two to finish and treated with wood stabilizers. I.

Who told you this?

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

players shafts

Players shafts are turned and dried in several stages that takes a year or two to finish and treated with wood stabilizers. I would rather a cue maker used a players than a block of wood that is not turned and dried in stages or treated with stabilizers.

I have a players cue that I break with that's 8 years old and still very straight. A players replacement shaft is only $42 at Ozone. Can't beat that.

If you wouldnt mind next time you are in the players factory where ever it might be please ask them to sent my cue back the shaft warped so bab it
look like a boken finger . < it warped with in 30 days of being bought<

Ps i have only been waiting for 6 years for them to fix it and send the cue back.

MMike

 

[backplaying]

Dieckman Cue might not be on your Top 10 Cuemaker List. But he should be on your Top 12 Cuemaker List, shaft cost $300 +


An Article from http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/billiards.htm website On Dennis Dieckman Cue Shaft


NEW!!! The Dieckman shaft has arrived! Read how it tested out!

In January of 2006 I decided to see how much a shaft from a custom cue maker would cost and how much better it was than shafts from production houses. After an extensive search through all the cue makers in my link list, it was clear that Dennis Dieckman (Dieckman Cues) provided the most complete explanation of how he selects shaft wood, ages it, and slowly (over a period of years) turns it into a shaft. I contacted him and after several conversations he helped me decide on the best shaft for me. Once this was done, he checked his stock of nearly-complete shafts and suggested two that sounded like they'd fit my needs. After another discussion we decided on a proto-shaft made from 10-year wood (related to the fineness of the grain structure). He said it would take 6-months for the final turnings, aging, and finishing. When I asked how much it would cost I was amazed that it was less than what many production companies charge for their shafts.

The shaft arrived ahead of schedule heavily padded inside doubled-boxes to keep it safe. It was in perfect condition and even came with two extra water buffalo leather tips.

So how good is this shaft by Dennis Dieckman? Simply put, it is without question the finest shaft I have ever seen, measured, or handled. The warp is less than 0.001-inches. This is so straight that it challenged my ability to measure it. In fact it's more likely that what I measured has more to do with the inaccuracies of my equipment or technique. That anyone is able to achieve this high a quality starting with a piece of natural product is unbelievable.

The wood itself is perfectly straight-grained the entire length of the shaft.

View attachment 244234

The greatly-magnified image above of the shaft taken near the tip shows a grain count of 10 layers over a 13mm diameter. (I had to turn it into a black-and-white image and increase the contrast to make the grains visible. In person they are so fine and uniform that they are almost impossible to see.) This works out to an incredible 20 grains per inch. This means that the tree from which this piece of wood came from grew very slowly and evenly, ideal for the highest quality shaft. What this proved to me was that not only is Mr. Dieckman a first-class artisan, he also knows good wood when he sees it.

All this sounds great but how does the shaft feel and play? The combination of the shaft and tip are perfect for me in that they provide a very solid, mellow sensation when stroking the cue ball. It fills me with a sense of confidence that I've never felt with any other shaft. I couldn't be more pleased with the shaft and if I ever need another one I will purchase it only from Dennis Dieckman.

These are the type of shafts I want. I have seen many high dollar cues with arrow rings and dark spots everywhere on the shaft. I have never understood how a cue can be worth thousands and have a shaft that looks like crap that I would give 5.00 for.

 

[mantis99]

Do you really think that any cuemakers would publicly state that they use inferior or lower quality woods. Every time a cuemaker sends a cue out it has his name and reputation on it, whether he marked it or not.
It sounds like you want to buy top quality work, but don't want to pay for the name on it. Top quality work is worth the same regardless who made it. Most of the Cuemakers can build you a good shaft, and all deserve to be paid for it.

Yes, however you often pay more for a big name than you would for a lesser known person usin the same materials. I think he is simply asking what lesser known makers use high quality materials so he can get a little more bang for his buck and not have to pay as much for the name on the cue.