What defines a "Pro"...

CrownCityCorey said:
Interesting how people make up the meaning of words. "How I define it is.......".

How a word is defined, is through a dictionary.

And to further this ambiguity each sport that has a recognized and accepted governing body have their own definition of a professional. As an example it is the USGA, the RCGA, and the R&A who defined the rules by which you can determin if a golfer is a professional or an amateur. They also do not care what Webster says.

At this point in time I do not see any solid definition within the pool world, and certainly no consensus.

If you research the origins of these two concepts (amateur athlete vs. profession athlete) you will find yet more definitions, the originals.

Dave
 
DaveK said:
And to further this ambiguity each sport that has a recognized and accepted governing body have their own definition of a professional. As an example it is the USGA, the RCGA, and the R&A who defined the rules by which you can determin if a golfer is a professional or an amateur. They also do not care what Webster says.

At this point in time I do not see any solid definition within the pool world, and certainly no consensus.

If you research the origins of these two concepts (amateur athlete vs. profession athlete) you will find yet more definitions, the originals.

Dave
That is all i am saying is In pool their is no "webster" definition
Can you look up the term "road player" or shortstop or "hustler" and see if Websters knows exactly what that means
 
cincyman said:
That is all i am saying is In pool their is no "webster" definition
Can you look up the term "road player" or shortstop or "hustler" and see if Websters knows exactly what that means

The standard definition is supposed to be dictated, imposed and enforced by the governing pro tour. Of which, there is none. Therefore nothing definitive to go by.
 
Last edited:
cincyman said:
That is all i am saying is In pool their is no "webster" definition
Can you look up the term "road player" or shortstop or "hustler" and see if Websters knows exactly what that means

In no sport is there a Webster definition. Each sport defines, for itself and only for itself, how to differentiate between amateur and professional status.

Dave
 
I derive all of my income from playing this game. I sponsor myself, and my playing is an investment. I incur losses on that investment, and I also collect profits from that investment. I market books, t-shirts, provide instruction, train other players, etc. So yes, I consider myself a professional at what I do.

Do I play in every professional event? No. There are many reasons for that, mostly due to scheduling conflicts and various other issues.

Do I win at the very top level consistently? No... but neither does half of the field. That's life. Can I win against the top players in the world? I already have on several occasions - in and out of tournaments.

Am I an easy match for anybody? Definitely not. As a mater of fact I can be a real pain in the ass to play against because of my safety play, and my banking and kicking ability. This week I'm working on making those straight in 2 foot pocket hangers. :D

Do I have the ability to challenge George Breedlove even for $10-$20K?
No, and I know a lot of guys in the top 10 that wouldn't touch that either, so I won't feel bad about that. I don't judge players by how high they can bet, I judge them by how they put the balls in the pockets, control the rock, win games, win matches, etc. I also judge them by how much heart they have. That's what's the most important to me.

There is a clear line that is drawn in the ability of the top players and the players that exist in the middle and bottom of the rankings. Believe it or not, most of the people I know that are on the pro tour play the game at the same level I do. There are some that play below my level, and that's okay too. I've watched some of those guys get lucky and knock off some of the top guys. It happens. Some guys play much more consistently than the others. Some have an easier time adapting to table conditions and the playing environment than the others. All in all, I think its a pretty even playing field, and no matches are "gimmes" out there.

Of course you're always going to have people try to tear you down because you don't play like Efren, Johnny,Alex, or any of the top tier players in the world. That's fine with me. I have the balls to put myself out there and test the water against the greatest players in the world while the critics sit back at home acting as if they know everything. IMO, they are jealous because they never had the ability or the cajones to at least show up and try.

One of the best players I have ever seen and played against in my entire life is someone that many people have never heard of - his name is Richie Peck. He ain't no pro, but he counts upon the fact that you've never heard of him or seen him play - and boy can he play! He has sent world champions out the door with their tail between their legs on many occasions. So save the nonsense that someone has to have won this or that or has to meet this standard or that standard. In the end, your game speaks for itself. I know that because my good friend showed up at the 1992 US Open - unseeded - unranked - undaunted - and when the smoke cleared, he was holding the trophy while the number one player in the world sat there wondering what the hell had just hit him. On any given Sunday the same thing can happen... like these two going out to eat while everybody left in the tournament were inside playing their matches this past Sunday... You won't win them all, no matter who you are.

DCP00416.jpg
 
CrownCityCorey said:
The Webter's definition is supposed to be dictated, inposed and enforced by the governing pro tour. Of which, there is none. Therefore nothing definitive to go by.

The Websters definition is far too basic to be of any use to a sports association. As an example, here is the definition of a professional and amateur golfer in Canada : http://www.rcga.org/innerpage.aspx?...KO2xBKzoNkPP00b8tCaMxCmmAJ4bCaN7Sy/32/YuTRQnE.

Dave, knows the devil is in the details
 
Blackjack said:
I derive all of my income from playing this game. I sponsor myself, and my playing is an investment. I incur losses on that investment, and I also collect profits from that investment. I market books, t-shirts, provide instruction, train other players, etc. So yes, I consider myself a professional at what I do.

Do I play in every professional event? No. There are many reasons for that, mostly due to scheduling conflicts and various other issues.

Do I win at the very top level consistently? No... but neither does half of the field. That's life. Can I win against the top players in the world? I already have on several occasions - in and out of tournaments.

Am I an easy match for anybody? Definitely not. As a mater of fact I can be a real pain in the ass to play against because of my safety play, and my banking and kicking ability. This week I'm working on making those straight in 2 foot pocket hangers. :D

Do I have the ability to challenge George Breedlove even for $10-$20K?
No, and I know a lot of guys in the top 10 that wouldn't touch that either, so I won't feel bad about that. I don't judge players by how high they can bet, I judge them by how they put the balls in the pockets, control the rock, win games, win matches, etc. I also judge them by how much heart they have. That's what's the most important to me.

There is a clear line that is drawn in the ability of the top players and the players that exist in the middle and bottom of the rankings. Believe it or not, most of the people I know that are on the pro tour play the game at the same level I do. There are some that play below my level, and that's okay too. I've watched some of those guys get lucky and knock off some of the top guys. It happens. Some guys play much more consistently than the others. Some have an easier time adapting to table conditions and the playing environment than the others. All in all, I think its a pretty even playing field, and no matches are "gimmes" out there.

Of course you're always going to have people try to tear you down because you don't play like Efren, Johnny,Alex, or any of the top tier players in the world. That's fine with me. I have the balls to put myself out there and test the water against the greatest players in the world while the critics sit back at home acting as if they know everything. IMO, they are jealous because they never had the ability or the cajones to at least show up and try.

One of the best players I have ever seen and played against in my entire life is someone that many people have never heard of - his name is Richie Peck. He ain't no pro, but he counts upon the fact that you've never heard of him or seen him play - and boy can he play! He has sent world champions out the door with their tail between their legs on many occasions. So save the nonsense that someone has to have won this or that or has to meet this standard or that standard. In the end, your game speaks for itself. I know that because my good friend showed up at the 1992 US Open - unseeded - unranked - undaunted - and when the smoke cleared, he was holding the trophy while the number one player in the world sat there wondering what the hell had just hit him. On any given Sunday the same thing can happen... like these two going out to eat while everybody left in the tournament were inside playing their matches this past Sunday... You won't win them all, no matter who you are.

DCP00416.jpg
That was a complete waste of 5 minutes of my life.
Do you not consider tommy kennedy a "pro" of course he is Would i consider that richie peck a pro if beat every champion he played-- of course i would. Do i consider YOU a pro and think you can even beat me OF course not
I also do not consider people proc for the amount they bet-- Georges name was brought up by the starter of the thread as an example and i merely used a monetary amount to make a point about the people who call themselves a so called "pro player".
Maybe i should re phrase
Would you or corey be the favorite if you drew George or Allen or Charlie Williams in a tournament match ----ummm i dont think so
In pool any decent player can win a race to 7 or 9 against a world champion- you get no argument there but ---a true PRO would be the favorite over you or any other self proclaimed PRO any day of the week
and hopefully you are smart enough to distingish the difference.
 
Cincyman

I'm not going to argue with you about this. Corey and I might not be Corey Deuel, but as players we get out there and support the tour and support the game of pool 24/7 - 365 days a year. We may not meet your definition of a "pro" and we definitely don't have your respect, but its not like I or anybody else really cares about that either. I have a lot of fun doing what I am doing, and I don't plan on stopping anytime soon because of the opinions of cheerful people like yourself. For guys like Cory Harprer and myself, these posts make us smile. Right Corey? lol

:D
 
Blackjack said:
Cincyman

I'm not going to argue with you about this. Corey and I might not be Corey Deuel, but as players we get out there and support the tour and support the game of pool 24/7 - 365 days a year. We may not meet your definition of a "pro" and we definitely don't have your respect, but its not like I or anybody else really cares about that either. I have a lot of fun doing what I am doing, and I don't plan on stopping anytime soon because of the opinions of cheerful people like yourself. For guys like Cory Harprer and myself, these posts make us smile. Right Corey? lol

:D
meeeeeeee toooooooooo
 
I wish i could support my life from playing pool. Hell I'm about to start trying while working here though to see how I do :) I sit here at work all day thinking about pool.. Hell I would be happy if it was just owning and running a pool hall. At least I'd be able to play whenever I wanted whatever day I wanted and be able to help others out who want it.
 
cubc said:
I wish i could support my life from playing pool. Hell I'm about to start trying while working here though to see how I do :) I sit here at work all day thinking about pool.. Hell I would be happy if it was just owning and running a pool hall. At least I'd be able to play whenever I wanted whatever day I wanted and be able to help others out who want it.

I wish I could support my life doing something else so I can play pool. LOL :D
 
In pool there is no real answer because there is no real organization. Right now you have

Touring Pros = A top player that travels anywhere to tournaments

Local, state, or regional pro = A player that is in the top echelon in a state or two and wins a lot of local tournaments...but hardly ever cashes at large events.

A road player = Travels around the country looking for mostly easy pickings. Can be as good as a touring pro.

Semi-pro = Amateur tournament players that play in regional events as a hope of it being a stepping stone to turn pro one day.

APA, BCA, TAR, and a few others I?m not familiar with = Some players use this as a stepping stone to playing in bigger tournaments around the state. Others just play in it to meet new people and have a night out away from the spouse.

Casual players = Just out to bang a few balls around and bang down a few drinks. A few are wannabe hustlers. Most are just out to have a good time. Pool is secondary to them. Johnnyt
 
I support myself by talking on the phone from where ever I want to be at. I'm tired of being on the phone, Shut up and play!!!! is music to my ears
 
Mens "professional" pool here in the USA is non-existant! All the "professional" men pool players are on their own to make their living as they see fit. To be labled as a professional is to be apart of an elite group of the best under a governing body like the former MPBA etc.

NO one on this thread has mentioned the WPBA- Women's professional pool! They are the only true reconizable "professionals" on the game. Yes men may play like a pro, conduct themselfs like a pro, gain income from pool like a pro, however, there is no league or no sanctioned body, like the NBA, NFL, MLB or NHL that tells the world they are "Professional". Isnt' that what the sporting society defines as professional?

Men's Professional pool in the US hasn't really existed in the last 15+ years. There are only a few big events for top players to make money from- DCC, US 9-ball open and the WPA world 9-ball championship. But, that is all there is for men's pool here in the US...
 
Last edited:
JustPlay said:
Mens "professional" pool here in the USA is non-existant! All the "professional" men pool players are on their own to make their living as they see fit. To be labled as a professional is to be apart of an elite group of the best under a governing body like the former MPBA etc.

NO one on this thread has mentioned the WPBA- Women's professional pool! They are the only true reconizable "professionals" on the game. Yes men may play like a pro, conduct themselfs like a pro, gain income from pool like a pro, however, there is no league or no sanctioned body, like the NBA, NFL, MLB or NHL that tells the world they are "Professional". Isnt' that what the sporting society defines as professional?

Men's Professional pool in the US hasn't really existed in the last 15+ years. There are only a few big events for top players to make money from- DCC, US 9-ball open and the WPA world 9-ball championship. But, that is all there is for men's pool here in the US...

You might be surprised to see who calls whom a pro when they're at the table. For those who don't really know any better, a pro might well be someone who runs a rack of 9 ball, or 8 ball, flawlessly....

Flex

P.S. I don't know how many times I've heard people say about someone who runs out from everywhere, "Man, that's guy's a freakin' pro...."
 
PoolSponge said:
I believe one can also further expand the definition though. Professional can be viewed in two ways IMO: 1) the player derives their livelyhood from pool, or 2) the speed that which they play is at a "professional" level.

This is how I view it. I have met "professionals" that were rookie road players that weren't that good and were sure to have a short career but because they had no other job they were essentially professional players. Then there are the weekend warriors you play in tournaments that have jobs, many working in pool halls, that have to be considered as playing to a "professional" level wherein they can compete with those who do make a living in the sport.

This is an excellent post which I agree with, and thanks Dave for emphasising my point. Geez it's hard to start a thread here nowadays without some smart a$$ turning it into a train wreck! :rolleyes:

Last year I played a full season on the Euro Tour, one of the few professionaly run tours in the world. I reached a high of 40th in my first year out of approx 700 players, I also was fortunate to be invited to the 14.1 worlds. I'm honestly interested in what other people think, am I not a "Pro" just because I worked full time and rarely practised?

On the other side of that coin does a true world class player like G Breedlove STOP becoming a "Pro" the moment he starts working on something else?

Is this really what people think? :confused:

In the "good o'le" UK we have a term called semi pro which I'd prob use to define both scenarios hightlighted above but I'm not sure it's a term used in the US?
 
Back
Top