What do the Top Players in the World AIM at?

Do you think aiming at the first object ball in 3 cushion is as exacting as aiming to pocket an object ball in pool?

Thanks,

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

I can only speak for myself! NO, I don't think it's the same.

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
Click to expand...
Years ago on RSB, Deno Andrews argued (!!) that 3C players aim to hit the first OB as precisely as pool players do. I've always wondered if this could be true... here's why:

1. In 3C it's much more important where the CB goes after hitting the first OB than where that OB goes.

2. You can cut an OB anywhere from 20 to 50 degrees and the CB's after-collision path will be pretty close to 30 degrees from its original path (with a rolling CB).

3. So, at least for 3C shots where you want the CB's after-collision path to be 30 degrees from its original path, there's a very large margin for error in where the CB hits the OB.

From this I assume that 3C players probably play lots of shots where the CB's after-collision path is 30 degrees, and concentrate on getting just the right amount of CB spin to send it around the rails where they want it to go. That way they can focus most of their concentration on one element of the shot (the precise amount of spin on the CB) and not have to split their concentration so much between precise OB hit and precise spin.

Anybody know if this is true or not?

pj
chgo

P.S. I know speed is important in 3C too - I'm just simplifying for the sake of discussion.
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
What's the difference, doc?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

To me....and this is my definition... a "half ball shot" would be aiming the cue ball to the center of the object ball. ie; a straight in shot.

A "half ball hit" would be aiming the center of the cue ball to the edge of the object ball.

I guess it could also be the terminology error though.....see, I am not from Chicago. :)
 
klockdoc said:
To me....and this is my definition... a "half ball shot" would be aiming the cue ball to the center of the object ball. ie; a straight in shot.

A "half ball hit" would be aiming the center of the cue ball to the edge of the object ball.

I guess it could also be the terminology error though.....see, I am not from Chicago. :)
Click to expand...
I don't know why the same phrase ("half ball") would be used to describe two entirely different alignments. But I'm from Chicago, so maybe I'd better ask my precinct captain before I say any more.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Years ago on RSB, Deno Andrews argued (!!) that 3C players aim to hit the first OB as precisely as pool players do. I've always wondered if this could be true... here's why:

1. In 3C it's much more important where the CB goes after hitting the first OB than where that OB goes.

2. You can cut an OB anywhere from 20 to 50 degrees and the CB's after-collision path will be pretty close to 30 degrees from its original path (with a rolling CB).

3. So, at least for 3C shots where you want the CB's after-collision path to be 30 degrees from its original path, there's a very large margin for error in where the CB hits the OB.

From this I assume that 3C players probably play lots of shots where the CB's after-collision path is 30 degrees, and concentrate on getting just the right amount of CB spin to send it around the rails where they want it to go. That way they can focus most of their concentration on one element of the shot (the precise amount of spin on the CB) and not have to split their concentration so much between precise OB hit and precise spin.

Anybody know if this is true or not?

pj
chgo

P.S. I know speed is important in 3C too - I'm just simplifying for the sake of discussion.
Click to expand...


Where is Deno anyway? He kind of disappeared from the forums post-IPT...

But as I recall from those discussions, Deno was saying that 3C players aim for as precise a hit as pool players, BUT, unlike pool players, they could vary the hit they choose -- for the purposes of position play -- and make up the difference with speed, spin and rails.

Or something like that.

Lou Figueroa
never a short
billiard player around
when you need one
 
Ah, the good old days. The Doctor and the Scribe have just entered the building. :grin-square::wink::grin-angelic::wave2:
 
JAM said:
Ah, the good old days. The Doctor and the Scribe have just entered the building. :grin-square::wink::grin-angelic::wave2:
Click to expand...


Damn, JAM, my memory isn't as good as it used to be. Which one is me?

Lou Figueroa
keeping his fingers crossed
for "Monkey Scribe" :-)
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Years ago on RSB, Deno Andrews argued (!!) that 3C players aim to hit the first OB as precisely as pool players do. I've always wondered if this could be true... here's why:

1. In 3C it's much more important where the CB goes after hitting the first OB than where that OB goes.

2. You can cut an OB anywhere from 20 to 50 degrees and the CB's after-collision path will be pretty close to 30 degrees from its original path (with a rolling CB).

3. So, at least for 3C shots where you want the CB's after-collision path to be 30 degrees from its original path, there's a very large margin for error in where the CB hits the OB.

From this I assume that 3C players probably play lots of shots where the CB's after-collision path is 30 degrees, and concentrate on getting just the right amount of CB spin to send it around the rails where they want it to go. That way they can focus most of their concentration on one element of the shot (the precise amount of spin on the CB) and not have to split their concentration so much between precise OB hit and precise spin.

Anybody know if this is true or not?

pj
chgo

P.S. I know speed is important in 3C too - I'm just simplifying for the sake of discussion.
Click to expand...

Pj;

Question; How much of the object ball has to be struck to create the CB's after-colision path of 30 degrees?

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion":confused:
 
mr3cushion said:
Pj;

Question; How much of the object ball has to be struck to create the CB's after-colision path of 30 degrees?

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion":confused:
Click to expand...


DON'T ANSWER, PATRICK!!!

It's a trick! *You* are not a top player and he will only go "na, na, na" at you.

Lou Figueroa
hope I
stopped him
in time :-)
 
lfigueroa said:
Damn, JAM, my memory isn't as good as it used to be. Which one is me?

Lou Figueroa
keeping his fingers crossed
for "Monkey Scribe" :-)
Click to expand...

Of course, you're the Scribe, and Mr. Johnson is the Doctor. :grin-square:

Those mighty monkey warriors who gave their blood, sweat, and tears never got the chance to receive their Medals of Honor. Some made it, some are long gone, but it is important to never forget the Monkey Wars and those few brave souls who survived. :)
 
Hey Bill, Wow these guys are brutal. For everyone who doesnt know Bill was (and still can be) probably the best 3c player around for years and is probably doing research for another book which is why he wants the experts response, but in typical AZ form you cant ask a Question without being slammed. It would be nice if you could post without having to get all the BS. And anybody that thinks Bill cant play come on down to FT Pierce Fl and bring a bankroll!


Brad
 
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JAM said:
Of course, you're the Scribe, and Mr. Johnson is the Doctor. :grin-square:

Those mighty monkey warriors who gave their blood, sweat, and tears never got the chance to receive their Medals of Honor. Some made it, some are long gone, but it is important to never forget the Monkey Wars and those few brave souls who survived. :)
Click to expand...


whew, thanks.

But it is kinda funny: the Monkeys never called it the "Monkey Wars." We all called it the "JAM Wars" :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
h2o4170 said:
Hey Bill, Wow these guys are brutal. For everyone who doesnt know Bill was (and still can be) probably the best 3c player around for years and is probably doing research for another book which is why he wants the experts response, but in typical AZ form you cant ask a Question without being slammed. It would be nice if you could post without having to get all the BS. And anybody that thinks Bill cant play come on down to FT Pierce Fl and bring a bankroll!


Brad
Click to expand...


I'm calling BS. No one said he can't play.

And any flak was self inflicted.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
whew, thanks.

But it is kinda funny: the Monkeys never called it the "Monkey Wars." We all called it the "JAM Wars" :-)

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

Of course, the monkeys didn't call it "Monkey Wars."

JAM <---smells another embellishment
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Years ago on RSB, Deno Andrews argued (!!) that 3C players aim to hit the first OB as precisely as pool players do. I've always wondered if this could be true... here's why:

1. In 3C it's much more important where the CB goes after hitting the first OB than where that OB goes.

2. You can cut an OB anywhere from 20 to 50 degrees and the CB's after-collision path will be pretty close to 30 degrees from its original path (with a rolling CB).

3. So, at least for 3C shots where you want the CB's after-collision path to be 30 degrees from its original path, there's a very large margin for error in where the CB hits the OB.

From this I assume that 3C players probably play lots of shots where the CB's after-collision path is 30 degrees, and concentrate on getting just the right amount of CB spin to send it around the rails where they want it to go. That way they can focus most of their concentration on one element of the shot (the precise amount of spin on the CB) and not have to split their concentration so much between precise OB hit and precise spin.

Anybody know if this is true or not?

pj
chgo

P.S. I know speed is important in 3C too - I'm just simplifying for the sake of discussion.
Click to expand...

You are right for the most part, Patrick.

I believe that most good 3 cushion players do aim at an exact point on the object ball to beat kisses, play position, make the point, etc., at least I did. But, and this is a big but, for the reasons that you described about the 30 degree rule, if you put the right stroke on the ball, many of the slightly missed hits will still score, there is a much bigger margin of error than in pocketing a pool ball. Your position may suffer, get in more kisses, and stuff like that, but you may still be at the table.

Since I was lucky enough to be able to hit close to where I aimed, my main concentration was where I was hitting the cue ball. Some players hit most shots w/maximum spin to know the reaction of the balls all the time (removing the guess work), I used the clock system or tips of english to get any results that were needed. This didn't always work well in new cloth, new ball conditions so adjustments needed to be made.

Bill, as far as the 30 degree rule, please look at Dr. Dave's websight, he has a lot of info on it and shows that there is a large area you can hit an object ball with normal running/rolling english where the cue ball will go forward approximately 30 degrees. Hope this helps. If you can't find his websight, PM me and I'll look for it and send you the link.

Dave
 
How much of the object ball has to be struck to create the CB's after-colision path of 30 degrees?

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion":confused:
Click to expand...
DON'T ANSWER, PATRICK!!!

It's a trick! *You* are not a top player and he will only go "na, na, na" at you.

Lou Figueroa
hope I
stopped him
in time :-)
Click to expand...
Not to worry, Lou. Whenever I sense shark-infested technical waters I throw Dr. Dave in first...

Bill, here's a couple of charts on the subject from Dr. Dave's excellent website (http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/index.html). As you can see, if you hit the OB anywhere near a half-ball hit you'll get something near a 30-degree CB deflection angle.

pj
chgo

30 degree cuts.jpg
30 degree 2.jpg
 
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