WobblyStroke
Well-known member
Thank you. She effectively bumped the Bob Fedor cuddles out of my mind.
Welp, it's back. Quick scroll up to the babe.
What Do You Look For in a Pool Instructor
- Thread starter lfigueroa
- Start date
Welp, it's back. Quick scroll up to the babe.
The first thing I said to Scott at the end of my lesson was ... I will see you again soon. If he was not the best he was ahead of anyone in second place. If a student wanted to learn/work hard he was one to employ. There are other great instructors but Scott was in league of his own. Scott is missed. RIP
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I do! I want it to be easy!Look -- there are clearly great instructors in the pool world. I give credit to the ones that have a long list of testimonials behind them. Demetrius Jalatis, Stan Shuffet, Bob Jewett, and Dr Dave, Alex Lely, our own Fran Crimi, and even this Beeler guy, I've read a lot of first hand accounts of how they've all helped players. Still I don't care for the infomercial / click-bait type marketing, and most of them mentioned don't do that, but there are some and others that do. It's not even necessary. Tin Man doesn't do that, and he's got players lining up to work with him, but they know they're going to have to work.
This thread has made me realize this: If this game was easy, most of us would have moved on years ago. We don't want it to be easy! So if you're an instructor and you pretend that the game is easy -- you're not for me, and I wouldn't steer anyone I know into your direction.
Pool is hard. Life can be harder.
I don't know what an SD is. Just in case I is 1....I claim to be a Leader. Trailblazing is fun. However some of the satisfaction comes when I learn that I am utilizing methods successfully employed by World Champions.
Cliff Thorburn speaking with Stephen Hendry makes a reference to learning in various ways and various sources. A good coach along the way can be invaluable. Hard to assess the damage or scars a bad coach can inflict. Judd Trump mentioned to Stephen that he too was cueball last when he started out. His first coach Corrected that. Seeing the cueball precision put on display by Luca Brecel then thinking of all the times that Judd didn't quite get the cueball inch perfect.......
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
Ye that coach sure did ruin Judd's game. No hope for the kid.
But you are right, a bad coach, well-meaning as they might be have completely derailed golf careers. I don't think we are quite at the same level of risk of ruin in cue sports, but I'm sure plenty of guys had their development stunted by unneeded stroke overhauls.
Cookie cutter lesson...no! But sometime what *we* want out of a lesson could be a misdiagnosis of what a problem/solution really is that can be spotted by a real pro instructor. Difference between a chiropractor and a specialist/surgeon.
Yes, agree. Next would be a perfect leave with the CB and last ball to open the new rack. 14.1 is tough because you're pretty much playing against yourself
Large shabambas.
Not ruin, obviously! I do have to wonder, What If? Judd could have been a Contender for the GOAT title. The one held by Stephen Hendry then Ronnie O'Sullivan.coach sure did ruin Judd's game. No hope for the kid.
George the Greek
Well-known member
If I was Trump and had the amount of wins/centuries as he had I wouldn't need a coach. He's got something going on in his head and he's not focusing. The conscious mind makes the analysis and the subconscious makes the hit and he needs the subconscious cleared up to get back in the zone.
I have heard of other players getting help with similar problems. Coaching comes in multiple sizes and flavors. Each individual has to determine their own path and what tools or coaching they will use. The money available in snooker makes it practical to have a support crew. The money available in pool makes having a car you can sleep in a plus.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
Sad but true. And I think the $ in the game is a big reason for why the golf industry is the gold standard for level of qualified instruction and why pool has so many substandard instructors badly lagging behind the top guys.I have heard of other players getting help with similar problems. Coaching comes in multiple sizes and flavors. Each individual has to determine their own path and what tools or coaching they will use. The money available in snooker makes it practical to have a support crew. The money available in pool makes having a car you can sleep in a plus.
Top athletes in many sports have the following:
A coach for the Xs and Os and 'how to play the game' side
A trainer for their body
A nutritionist
A psychologist to help them with the mental side.
Hell, microsoft employees have all the above and more. $ makes a big difference.
You know who my first real Mentor was. Before we considered ourselves true friends I decided to take his lesson course. I think it was $100 for 5 1hr lessons. Of course the lessons went longer, as he loved to talk and teach.
Lesson one he says at the beginning "You're a decent player, except for your Stance, Bridge, and Stroke!!
He's the man right? So I go with the instruction. I went from a below average player to...
Well, lets say we had to lower the X Axis to find where I could be Plotted.
Going off the graph isn't always a good thing.
At any rate I was a believer. After all he received instruction from some pretty significant players who received information from some of the greatest ever. At any rate it took me maybe 90days to find the starting line again. So yes, for sure a lesson can knock you down.
I'm with you on everything but the development of a permanent hitch. Without the facts I'd suspect that's self induced trying to overcome another hitch and the reason the player sought instruction.
I've taken lessons from several people. These days I think the only reason is to learn for learning sake, from someone with special talent in some area. I'd like to spend time with Stan or Geno, just to hear what they have to say. I like simply acquiring knowledge. I kick myself for not taking up Hal's offer to come to his house for a few days. What an opportunity. Not just his aiming.. You know
Anyway as far as Advanced and Pro players. I think (guessing) It comes back to fundamentals. Unless there's some breakthrough game strategy or something, Top players have the skills and knowledge of the game(s) and the Cue Ball.
They don't need lessons! Except..
Sometimes there's a slump and a skilled coach can put their eyes on that situation. Evaluate, test a theory, and then suggest a solution(s). Then evaluate again.
When there's a slump with a Pro Level player, I have to think it's coming from something fundamental. They already know the game(s) and cue action.
The mental can mess up mechanics and vise versa.
George the Greek
Well-known member
I was playing years ago and my game was off a bit and an old railbird says what's wrong with my bridge hand it didn't look right. I had gotten sloppy and the next turn at the table I adjusted and went back to normal. Not to brag I could play pretty decent when I was zoned in and my best was 35 years ago when I ran 5 centuries and 9 breaks in the 90"s in a row.
well,
for shot selection and knowledge i say games
for skill development, its really a more methodical approach
alignment
delivery etc
From the last two threads, I see that a ton of players are interested the playing abilities of the top instructors in the United States. Here is a breakdown of every PBIA Master Instructor's Fargo Rating. Interesting that the two that get the most hell are probably the two best players. Jealousy at work? Perhaps...
Per Dr. Dave's website here are what the ratings mean:
800 – top world-class professional
700 – top regional player in the US; a threat to cash in the Master’s Division at the BCA/VNEA Championships; a threat to run six in a row if the break is working
600 – likely to cash in the BCA Open Division but probably won’t make it to the top 32; may get moved to Master’s Division and then flounder; has run three-in-a-row multiple times and maybe four-in-a row a time or two
500 – good local league player; runs out first time at the table in about 10% of the games
400 – runs out first time at the table in about 1% of the games (once or twice a league season)
300 – beginner league player
200 – absolute beginner; may miscue frequently
I could have missed someone. If you have a rating somewhere else like in the APA please get me that information and I'll add it even though it is a different kind.
FARGO RATINGS BY INSTRUCTOR:
Jerry Briesath – No match records
Dr. Dave Alciatore – No match records
Jim Baker – 607 Established
Anthony Beeler – 713 Established
Lance Cowles – 610 Established
Fran Crimi – 524 - Preliminary
Samm Diep-Vidal – 562 Established
David Donovan – 555 Established
Domonic Esposito – No match records
Mark Finkelstein – No match records
Randy Goettlicher – 571 Established
Claude Gragg – 556 Established
Rod Gustafson – No match records
Steve Hansen – 533 Established
John Harlach – No match records
Tommy Hill – 566 Established
Steve Jennings – 433 Established
Bob Jewett - 620 Preliminary
John Lucarelli – No match records
David MacNeill – No match records
Joseph Mejia – 565 Preliminary
Carl Oswald – 594 Established
Roy Pastor – 556 Established
Mark Powell – No match records
Bob Radford – No match records
Linda Radford – No match records
Leslie Rogers – No match records
Jay Schmitt – 504 Preliminary
Stan Shuffett – 740 Preliminary
Carl Stewart – 535 Established
Dennis Stewart – No match records
Kim Young – No match records
Walt Zincavage – 438 preliminary
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I would guess not very many youngsters on that list. Fargo is pretty new.
Also many begin teaching and stop playing competitively.
Didn't even add the plague... He might be one of the best.
Shooting with technique improves the shooting, but shooting with spirit improves the man.
Man, isn't THAT the truth!! And the one at 740 was at one time at 760 when playing a lot and a little younger. Jealously? Probably but I think more like ignorance and dislike which started 25 or 26 years ago and carried forward to today by only a handful, but they have enough impact and sway to infect many others on a forum.
Great find of this info and post!
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You know I just don’t know about all that.
Wasn’t there a guy a few years ago selling some sort of instructor accreditation in the For Sale forum here?
Lou Figueroa