What Do You Look For in a Pool Instructor

I have been around pool for some time. Seen a few become national champions, pros, top amateurs.
Never and I mean never have I seen it happen in a short period of time.
What the hell do I know.... probably not much.
1) We all have varied experiences . . .

2) I didn't write "national champion, pro or top amateur in a short period", I wrote "shortstops, playing in pro ams" although I have coached champions and pros . . .

3) You probably know a lot, but I always welcome doubters to a free lesson--you have nothing to lose and everything to gain--if I teach you something that is bad for your game, you just wouldn't do what I taught, right?
 
1) We all have varied experiences . . .

2) I didn't write "national champion, pro or top amateur in a short period", I wrote "shortstops, playing in pro ams" although I have coached champions and pros . . .

3) You probably know a lot, but I always welcome doubters to a free lesson--you have nothing to lose and everything to gain--if I teach you something that is bad for your game, you just wouldn't do what I taught, right?
1. No doubt
2. C to B and B to A in one lesson? So like 100 Fargo points?
C to short stop in less than a year?
So 400 to 725 Fargo?
I have a hard time believing this to be honest.
3. As bad as I play, I have no doubt you could help.

Edit*
In the case of number 2. Would you say this is typically every student, 1 of 5, 1 of 100, 1 of 1,000, 1 of 10,000?
 
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Ye it is absolutely amazing to me some people stay as 4s for years... some decades. Mind boggling. But hey, some kids are fielding grounders and throwing out runners at first when they are 7 and others are falling out of their school desks. Those kids grow up too. And they need much guidance to make it past an SL4.
There's a guy in my league, a 4 and has been - a loooooonnnnnggg time. His stance is, well, let's call it wide. His legs are splayed out at about 60-degree angle.

After he gets down on this shot, he doesn't make micro-adjustments. He makes mega-adjustments. Literally, the back of his cue goes 3-4 inches from center in both directions to line up while he is aiming.

I respectfully asked if he'd mind a suggestion. He agreed. I told him he'd be more accurate if he got behind the shot, then got down on the shot onto the shot line, so that he needed only very, very small adjustments, or ideally, no adjustments. If he needed anything larger than a micro-adjustment, get back up, and start over.

He understood but then out came the excuses, none of them legit. Some people are just too stubborn. I asked his captain if anyone had ever tried coaching him, and he said, yes, many, many times. He simply ignored any and all advice. He, then, is destined to be a 4, forever.
 
I have been around pool for some time. Seen a few become national champions, pros, top amateurs.
Never and I mean never have I seen it happen in a short period of time.
What the hell do I know.... probably not much.
With talent and good guidance, things can happen in a hurry. My own journey went from ran 3 racks in my pool playing life to ghost-killer A player in about 18months... started with studying for a motor-learning exam when I had an epiphany that the motor system I was studying was ideal for the pool stroke. So I applied the rules of the system to my pool stroke and immediately saw my cue moving differently. Literally got a great stroke overnight. I then spent the winter break playing a ton of pool every day so let's say about 200 hours at the table over the course of the month and in the following month I beat the 8ball ghost 5-0. I still didn't really know how to play...that's what the rest of the 18 months were for, but it can certainly happen in a hurry.

One guy I'm teaching now, who just started playing last summer, I'm convinced will be deep into the 600s fargo by the end of the year. Talented. Coachable. Competitive fire. Progressing very very fast. No FR atm but I'd say he already about 500 and really it is more his thinking and knowledge holding him back now, which he is working diligently on. At this point, I'd be surprised if he wasn't at least a 630 by December, which will put him at about 18months from when he started out raw and 12months from starting to get quality guidance (me for the stroke side and a former pro for the game side).

But ye, these guys are very rare. He's one of em.
 
I look for tiger shirts.

🍿

But really, one lesson from CJ helped my game a ton. We quickly honed in on the real things hurting my game the most (vision and stance/PSR), and talked about drills to ingrain the corrections. It took quite a lot of hours of practice and drills for the improvement to kick in, but it did. Maybe it was a low C to low B story from one lesson, but it took months of practice after the lesson for sure. I don't play league, or have a fargo, so it's hard to quantify.
 
There's a guy in my league, a 4 and has been - a loooooonnnnnggg time. His stance is, well, let's call it wide. His legs are splayed out at about 60-degree angle.

After he gets down on this shot, he doesn't make micro-adjustments. He makes mega-adjustments. Literally, the back of his cue goes 3-4 inches from center in both directions to line up while he is aiming.

I respectfully asked if he'd mind a suggestion. He agreed. I told him he'd be more accurate if he got behind the shot, then got down on the shot onto the shot line, so that he needed only very, very small adjustments, or ideally, no adjustments. If he needed anything larger than a micro-adjustment, get back up, and start over.

He understood but then out came the excuses, none of them legit. Some people are just too stubborn. I asked his captain if anyone had ever tried coaching him, and he said, yes, many, many times. He simply ignored any and all advice. He, then, is destined to be a 4, forever.
Some people are just uncoachable. One of the greatest natural athletes I've ever had the pleasure to work with as a track coach was like this. He couldn't play team sports because of his attitude towards teammates and being a bad team player so was relegated to solo T&F.

He was a great sprinter and high jumper and could have truly competed at a high level. But, he refused to learn to land in a way to maximize distance. Still made it to the provincial finals (Canada, so like state finals). It was a windy day and jumping into the wind I told him to increase his run up 2 steps to let himself get up to his speed. Refused. Stayed at 19 and came 3rd to 2 guys with proper landing technique and several yard longer run ups. He was easily better than those boys.

What could have been if he just had a better head on his shoulders and allowed others' knowledge to get through and help him. Plenty of people like this albeit not nearly as naturally gifted. Your forever4 seems to fit the mould.
 
With talent and good guidance, things can happen in a hurry. My own journey went from ran 3 racks in my pool playing life to ghost-killer A player in about 18months... started with studying for a motor-learning exam when I had an epiphany that the motor system I was studying was ideal for the pool stroke. So I applied the rules of the system to my pool stroke and immediately saw my cue moving differently. Literally got a great stroke overnight. I then spent the winter break playing a ton of pool every day so let's say about 200 hours at the table over the course of the month and in the following month I beat the 8ball ghost 5-0. I still didn't really know how to play...that's what the rest of the 18 months were for, but it can certainly happen in a hurry.

One guy I'm teaching now, who just started playing last summer, I'm convinced will be deep into the 600s fargo by the end of the year. Talented. Coachable. Competitive fire. Progressing very very fast. No FR atm but I'd say he already about 500 and really it is more his thinking and knowledge holding him back now, which he is working diligently on. At this point, I'd be surprised if he wasn't at least a 630 by December, which will put him at about 18months from when he started out raw and 12months from starting to get quality guidance.

But ye, these guys are very rare. He's one of em.
The ones I was talking about all had parents or family members who were at least A players. They had played in juniors or strong amateur leagues since age 12. All had strong drive and self belief. All hit a big jump around 16-17.
That definitely isn't normal. As far as your journey and the student. I agree with discipline and hard work and some regular mentorship, great results can be achieved in a few years. It's so cool to watch someone on the grind, on the rise! Enjoy it!
 
Look -- there are clearly great instructors in the pool world. I give credit to the ones that have a long list of testimonials behind them. Demetrius Jalatis, Stan Shuffet, Bob Jewett, and Dr Dave, Alex Lely, our own Fran Crimi, and even this Beeler guy 😉, I've read a lot of first hand accounts of how they've all helped players. Still I don't care for the infomercial / click-bait type marketing, and most of them mentioned don't do that, but there are some and others that do. It's not even necessary. Tin Man doesn't do that, and he's got players lining up to work with him, but they know they're going to have to work.

This thread has made me realize this: If this game was easy, most of us would have moved on years ago. We don't want it to be easy! So if you're an instructor and you pretend that the game is easy -- you're not for me, and I wouldn't steer anyone I know into your direction.

Pool is hard. Life can be harder.
 
The ones I was talking about all had parents or family members who were at least A players. They had played in juniors or strong amateur leagues since age 12. All had strong drive and self belief. All hit a big jump around 16-17.
That definitely isn't normal. As far as your journey and the student. I agree with discipline and hard work and some regular mentorship, great results can be achieved in a few years. It's so cool to watch someone on the grind, on the rise! Enjoy it!
I love it. The ah-ha moments and the 'holy shit that actually works like a charm' moments are very sweet. But to see a guy go from sub average to a monster on the table and just watch the fruits of their labor in action is pretty special indeed, knowing I had some role to play in expediting his process to get there (guys like this WILL get there anyway). I'm sure I will be watching this player destroy guys he thought were forever out of reach for him not too long from now.

I only coach pool and golf part time as a side gig and really the $ has nothing to do with it. I love watching lightbulbs go on and seeing big leaps in skill. Since my time is limited, I have to be selective about my students. As soon as I played a single for funzies set against him, I knew I had to work with him. He's the perfect student and the type any coach wishes for...in any sport.
 
I think if someone teaches pool successfully, it's no secret. Everyone will see it. Pool is a relatively small world, if someone is that good they will have a line around the block. They would have to limit students to just the ones who they think will get the most out of it. People would be begging them to help as they watch all their league and tournament playing peers pass them by.
Pool is hard and few will put in the work it takes to even get good enough to really know how bad they still suck.
 
Look -- there are clearly great instructors in the pool world. I give credit to the ones that have a long list of testimonials behind them. Demetrius Jalatis, Stan Shuffet, Bob Jewett, and Dr Dave, Alex Lely, our own Fran Crimi, and even this Beeler guy 😉, I've read a lot of first hand accounts of how they've all helped players. Still I don't care for the infomercial / click-bait type marketing, and most of them mentioned don't do that, but there are some and others that do. It's not even necessary. Tin Man doesn't do that, and he's got players lining up to work with him, but they know they're going to have to work.

This thread has made me realize this: If this game was easy, most of us would have moved on years ago. We don't want it to be easy! So if you're an instructor and you pretend that the game is easy -- you're not for me, and I wouldn't steer anyone I know into your direction.

Pool is hard. Life can be harder.
So I take it you won't be signing up for the Florida clinic.
 
1. No doubt
2. C to B and B to A in one lesson? So like 100 Fargo points?
C to short stop in less than a year?
So 400 to 725 Fargo?
I have a hard time believing this to be honest.
3. As bad as I play, I have no doubt you could help.

Edit*
In the case of number 2. Would you say this is typically every student, 1 of 5, 1 of 100, 1 of 1,000, 1 of 10,000?
This isn't one lesson from me, the Pro Pool Clinic on July 29 is 8 hour lessons in one session.

Think of the shortstop or A players you know. Did they take many years to get there? And they got there with little teaching, just playing. So when you build into a student with a good knowledge base to begin . . . may I give an example or two? I enjoy this subject much.

A lot of players have a lovely stance, aim and stroke, but a big "tip gap" as Dr. Dave coined it--their cue tip is far from the cue ball at address. My thought is early in their playing days they fouled the cue ball with practice strokes and stayed far back with a tip gap--this is where instruction comes in. Just like a kid learning baseball may be frightened of the pitch until they're coached to cover the plate with authority, big tip gappers need to be coached to get in there with their whole body from the feet to "cover that cue ball" and their percentage goes up., WAY up. Five-, maybe ten-minute lesson and BOOM.

Here's another simple example, whenever I teach aim, even if you want to keep using ghost ball :( I ask students about their aim target. I see a lot of APA 6s and so on who cheat the pocket based on the approach side of the cut. I explain the true pocket center is between the points of the pocket, they say "really?" and I show how a rolling ball from any angle is most likely to sink via true center, and BOOM, they're an APA 7 or 8. Five-minute discussion and we hit a few balls to demonstrate, together.

My JOY in teaching is MANY players A, B and C have LOVELY fundamentals and need some basic tweaks. It's FUN to see someone practically with tears in their eyes hitting great draw shots or learning a pro aim system and so on. For most students, they come to a lessons with me or someone like me because they've been an APA whatever number for DECADES.

My other joy is never saying "everyone in the world bicep/tricep" or "everyone pause on the backswing a while" or "everyone take their pinky finger off the cue" and a lot of students have paid a lot of money for those kinds of things. It's simply taking players (most of the students who can afford me are older with a good income although I do some pro bono lessons) who've played for 20-40 years and doing a few tweaks and BOOM.

So, an hour or two with me, you probably won't see me again for years, because you've gone up two handicap points. Ten hours of lessons for the committed. Yes, I've had students--now friends--come to me as C or B and leave playing in tournaments seeded with pros and loving it.

Although I've had tens of thousands read my articles and books, we're talking 1 of every couple of students who commit, an hour of lessons weekly or biweekly, practice between, ten lessons including skipped weeks means half a year. Not a short time to become great when guided.

Final thought, take a free lesson from me in person or online, or come to the Florida clinic at a discount. Not a Sparkle discount, mind you, but a discount. LIVE and LEARN!
 
Look -- there are clearly great instructors in the pool world. I give credit to the ones that have a long list of testimonials behind them. Demetrius Jalatis, Stan Shuffet, Bob Jewett, and Dr Dave, Alex Lely, our own Fran Crimi, and even this Beeler guy 😉, I've read a lot of first hand accounts of how they've all helped players. Still I don't care for the infomercial / click-bait type marketing, and most of them mentioned don't do that, but there are some and others that do. It's not even necessary. Tin Man doesn't do that, and he's got players lining up to work with him, but they know they're going to have to work.

This thread has made me realize this: If this game was easy, most of us would have moved on years ago. We don't want it to be easy! So if you're an instructor and you pretend that the game is easy -- you're not for me, and I wouldn't steer anyone I know into your direction.

Pool is hard. Life can be
Look -- there are clearly great instructors in the pool world. I give credit to the ones that have a long list of testimonials behind them. Demetrius Jalatis, Stan Shuffet, Bob Jewett, and Dr Dave, Alex Lely, our own Fran Crimi, and even this Beeler guy 😉, I've read a lot of first hand accounts of how they've all helped players. Still I don't care for the infomercial / click-bait type marketing, and most of them mentioned don't do that, but there are some and others that do. It's not even necessary. Tin Man doesn't do that, and he's got players lining up to work with him, but they know they're going to have to work.

This thread has made me realize this: If this game was easy, most of us would have moved on years ago. We don't want it to be easy! So if you're an instructor and you pretend that the game is easy -- you're not for me, and I wouldn't steer anyone I know into your direction.

Pool is hard. Life can be harder.
I hear you. I do. But why do people pay enormous sums for top coaching in other sports like tennis, golf or etc.? Because a good teacher can get you there fairly quickly.

Remember, most of my students have played a long time and have good fundamentals and are capable of spectacular breakthroughs with subtle tweaks, not massive overhauls.

I feel I need to say it, I'm not just a teacher, but a learner, and when I'm offered a "hard lesson" like "learn how to stroke with my one-fits-all method and you'll see improvement in six months" I think "I could see improvement holding the cue stick with my TOES and practicing two hours a day for six months!"

So now we're back to doubters can have a free lesson from me.
 
So I take it you won't be signing up for the Florida clinic.
And yet AGAIN I'm offering you a free lesson, after which you can post a 500-word article at AZ telling the world I'm a fraud . . . or get what you're likely missing from your own game, skill and consistency.

Sparkle, I have had a lot of students who have paid pros $250 an hour monthly for YEARS and learned nada, but loved hanging with the pros. Decide whether you like hanging with the trolls or want to LEARN.
 
This isn't one lesson from me, the Pro Pool Clinic on July 29 is 8 hour lessons in one session.

Think of the shortstop or A players you know. Did they take many years to get there? And they got there with little teaching, just playing. So when you build into a student with a good knowledge base to begin . . . may I give an example or two? I enjoy this subject much.

A lot of players have a lovely stance, aim and stroke, but a big "tip gap" as Dr. Dave coined it--their cue tip is far from the cue ball at address. My thought is early in their playing days they fouled the cue ball with practice strokes and stayed far back with a tip gap--this is where instruction comes in. Just like a kid learning baseball may be frightened of the pitch until they're coached to cover the plate with authority, big tip gappers need to be coached to get in there with their whole body from the feet to "cover that cue ball" and their percentage goes up., WAY up. Five-, maybe ten-minute lesson and BOOM.

Here's another simple example, whenever I teach aim, even if you want to keep using ghost ball :( I ask students about their aim target. I see a lot of APA 6s and so on who cheat the pocket based on the approach side of the cut. I explain the true pocket center is between the points of the pocket, they say "really?" and I show how a rolling ball from any angle is most likely to sink via true center, and BOOM, they're an APA 7 or 8. Five-minute discussion and we hit a few balls to demonstrate, together.

My JOY in teaching is MANY players A, B and C have LOVELY fundamentals and need some basic tweaks. It's FUN to see someone practically with tears in their eyes hitting great draw shots or learning a pro aim system and so on. For most students, they come to a lessons with me or someone like me because they've been an APA whatever number for DECADES.

My other joy is never saying "everyone in the world bicep/tricep" or "everyone pause on the backswing a while" or "everyone take their pinky finger off the cue" and a lot of students have paid a lot of money for those kinds of things. It's simply taking players (most of the students who can afford me are older with a good income although I do some pro bono lessons) who've played for 20-40 years and doing a few tweaks and BOOM.

So, an hour or two with me, you probably won't see me again for years, because you've gone up two handicap points. Ten hours of lessons for the committed. Yes, I've had students--now friends--come to me as C or B and leave playing in tournaments seeded with pros and loving it.

Although I've had tens of thousands read my articles and books, we're talking 1 of every couple of students who commit, an hour of lessons weekly or biweekly, practice between, ten lessons including skipped weeks means half a year. Not a short time to become great when guided.

Final thought, take a free lesson from me in person or online, or come to the Florida clinic at a discount. Not a Sparkle discount, mind you, but a discount. LIVE and LEARN!
I agree you can put people in a good position and they instantly play better.
However, to have those results, under pressure, when it counts, does not happen overnight. So, they are not c players taking a lesson and winning B level tournaments in a few days, right?

Even 6 months with weekly guided lessons on specific goals, is very difficult and would take serious dedication.

Anyone can enter most pro events and go two or 3 and out. There is literally zero qualifications. If they cash in a majority 700+ field.... respect.
 
Next time there is 1 day 2 day whatever camp at your local watering hole. Take a look around at the group participating. These are motivated people, seemingly willing to work on their game.
Now 1 year later... Who still plays? Are they up the magical levels? Did they now learn the code of secrets?
In my experience it's maybe one person out of the 15 or 20. Maybe...And they went to work, usually took more lessons also.
If the instructor feels the need to make bogus claims from the rooftops, it's probably bogus. If the villagers are shouting the instructors name from the rooftops, get in line.

Ever hear a pro praise their coach after a big win? Probably not many
 
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This isn't one lesson from me, the Pro Pool Clinic on July 29 is 8 hour lessons in one session.

Think of the shortstop or A players you know. Did they take many years to get there? And they got there with little teaching, just playing. So when you build into a student with a good knowledge base to begin . . . may I give an example or two? I enjoy this subject much.

A lot of players have a lovely stance, aim and stroke, but a big "tip gap" as Dr. Dave coined it--their cue tip is far from the cue ball at address. My thought is early in their playing days they fouled the cue ball with practice strokes and stayed far back with a tip gap--this is where instruction comes in. Just like a kid learning baseball may be frightened of the pitch until they're coached to cover the plate with authority, big tip gappers need to be coached to get in there with their whole body from the feet to "cover that cue ball" and their percentage goes up., WAY up. Five-, maybe ten-minute lesson and BOOM.

Here's another simple example, whenever I teach aim, even if you want to keep using ghost ball :( I ask students about their aim target. I see a lot of APA 6s and so on who cheat the pocket based on the approach side of the cut. I explain the true pocket center is between the points of the pocket, they say "really?" and I show how a rolling ball from any angle is most likely to sink via true center, and BOOM, they're an APA 7 or 8. Five-minute discussion and we hit a few balls to demonstrate, together.

My JOY in teaching is MANY players A, B and C have LOVELY fundamentals and need some basic tweaks. It's FUN to see someone practically with tears in their eyes hitting great draw shots or learning a pro aim system and so on. For most students, they come to a lessons with me or someone like me because they've been an APA whatever number for DECADES.

My other joy is never saying "everyone in the world bicep/tricep" or "everyone pause on the backswing a while" or "everyone take their pinky finger off the cue" and a lot of students have paid a lot of money for those kinds of things. It's simply taking players (most of the students who can afford me are older with a good income although I do some pro bono lessons) who've played for 20-40 years and doing a few tweaks and BOOM.

So, an hour or two with me, you probably won't see me again for years, because you've gone up two handicap points. Ten hours of lessons for the committed. Yes, I've had students--now friends--come to me as C or B and leave playing in tournaments seeded with pros and loving it.

Although I've had tens of thousands read my articles and books, we're talking 1 of every couple of students who commit, an hour of lessons weekly or biweekly, practice between, ten lessons including skipped weeks means half a year. Not a short time to become great when guided.

Final thought, take a free lesson from me in person or online, or come to the Florida clinic at a discount. Not a Sparkle discount, mind you, but a discount. LIVE and LEARN!
Again, if anyone reads this whole post without their eyes glazing over I do have some swampland for sale, very cheap.
Another simple question would be how is it that you just happen to have students with great fundamentals, a great stroke, know how to aim, etc; but yet, haven't reached their potential because of a large tip gap or what?
I only ask because that's totally different from my experience.
Usually the people looking for help are a mess. Their fundamentals are terrible as is their stroke and they basically don't have a clue.
So what is it? Are you just really lucky or what? I'd really like to know.
Waiting with bated breath for your answer.
 
@BilliardsAbout
I'm curious about your approach to both teaching and playing. Knowing that you've been on here for years, I did a simple YouTube search to see how well you play (not that I think you have to be a world-beater to be a good instructor or anything) and to maybe catch a snipet of you with a student, but I wasn't able to see any video of you.

Is there anything available I can take a peek at? If not, why not? Do you have a FargoRating?
 
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