What does it take to become a Champion?

[I rack balls]

well actually russ ralf was a great player the first time in usa.hed already won many tourneys.
as far as my favorable circumstances heres the deal.
i played high school and college golf and worked 40 hours a week until i was 23.
i saw my first poolball at 18.all the while working full time and playing golf i took up pool. by the time i was 23 i ran 240 practicing when i wasnt working or playing golf.
bobby hunter told me in 30 years of playing pool he had never seen someone get so good so fast.by the way at that point in my poolife bob did not befriend me yet or try to show me anything.he was actually trying to beat me out of money at that time.
another thing i never practiced because it cost 4-7 dollars an hour.i played for money or i didnt play.
i played baseball six years and made all star every year.played competitive golf won many tourneys with around 100 rounds in the 60s in my life.
i think you know already what ive done in pool part time that is when im not golfing,fishing,motorcycling,working on house,with racheal,etc etc.
so in short some people have whatever the hell it is that gets them very good very quick and some dont.
im one of the ones who do and i dont know how else to sugurcoat it to make the ones who dont feel better.it is what it is.
ive had full time jobs just like everybody else ,relationships and all the other stuff and i made it.
so instead of talking about how easy it is to play like the pros just come do it .then your opinion would have more weight.
later.
p.s. at this point in your life youve played more pool than i had by the time i was only 22 and hadnt played 30 percent of what someone your age has most likely played.at 22 you would not have been able to play me without weight.by the way i used a house cue at that time in my life as i had a fulltime job and pool was just a sidehobby even though i could run over 100 with a housecue.

I think you are right. I have been playing golf for a year with no teacher and have surpassed most life long golfers. If pool were not what it is today you might have heard of me........

 

[Russ Chewning]

well actually russ ralf was a great player the first time in usa.hed already won many tourneys.
as far as my favorable circumstances heres the deal.
i played high school and college golf and worked 40 hours a week until i was 23.
i saw my first poolball at 18.all the while working full time and playing golf i took up pool. by the time i was 23 i ran 240 practicing when i wasnt working or playing golf.
bobby hunter told me in 30 years of playing pool he had never seen someone get so good so fast.by the way at that point in my poolife bob did not befriend me yet or try to show me anything.he was actually trying to beat me out of money at that time.
another thing i never practiced because it cost 4-7 dollars an hour.i played for money or i didnt play.
i played baseball six years and made all star every year.played competitive golf won many tourneys with around 100 rounds in the 60s in my life.
i think you know already what ive done in pool part time that is when im not golfing,fishing,motorcycling,working on house,with racheal,etc etc.
so in short some people have whatever the hell it is that gets them very good very quick and some dont.
im one of the ones who do and i dont know how else to sugurcoat it to make the ones who dont feel better.it is what it is.
ive had full time jobs just like everybody else ,relationships and all the other stuff and i made it.
so instead of talking about how easy it is to play like the pros just come do it .then your opinion would have more weight.
later.
p.s. at this point in your life youve played more pool than i had by the time i was only 22 and hadnt played 30 percent of what someone your age has most likely played.at 22 you would not have been able to play me without weight.by the way i used a house cue at that time in my life as i had a fulltime job and pool was just a sidehobby even though i could run over 100 with a housecue.

John,

Then I stand corrected.. I will say this, however.. it seems to me if someone with your physical/mental talents had grown up in the Phillipines, you'd probably be right up there with Efren and Bustamente.

I don't say there are not a very select few (apparently like you, lol) that don't have immense physical talents...

I am just saying that, by the common usage of the word "champion", it is a very attainable status for people of a certain amount of hand eye coordination, assuming they have the time to practice for a year or more. A champion is some who wins a lot of regional events, and has won (or can win) pro events.

And John..Every time this topic comes up bro, you seem to take it so personally.

Why?

You know that there are "champions" out there who got there through about 2-3 years of straight practice. I know you had to have met them while on tour.

So..Why do you take it so personally when someone says "If more people had 2 years of uninterrupted practice time, played around champions, had no family or girlfriend, and didn't have to worry about money" then there would be more champions?

I like you John..I really do. But some humility is in order. You have phenomenal physical abilities, that allowed you to shortcut the process.

But NO, not every champion got there by playing 12 hours a week. Some were getting 60+ hours a week.

And I think you know that, yes?

Russ

 

[Gatz]

So if your so gifted and it's so easy for you why don't you put in some serious time and win a world title and make 200K+ a year (maybe you don't like money?)? Ah maybe you don't have the desire to?

Whats stopping you from getting to the level's of Alex P, Ralf Souquet, Ronnie Alcano, Efren Reyes, Mika Immonen, Busty etc...

I mean, if your so gifted and you don't put in much time to the game, I would think if you were to put some time in, you would be destroying these guys above. Because I don't think you're at these guys level, but I'm sure you could be. I think it's all in your head and desire to practice or the will to get better.

 

[john schmidt]

exactly

I think you are right. I have been playing golf for a year with no teacher and have surpassed most life long golfers. If pool were not what it is today you might have heard of me........

thats what im saying some people become very good quick.you might be on the pga tour someday.
i know golfers who have played everyday for 20 years.there dream is to be great.they watch tourneys,videos,take lessons ,hang around pros ,have the best clubs,gamble everyday,practice hard,live sleep and eat golf.yet they have broken 80 once in their life and say if i wanted to be a pro i could.lol what a joke.
anyway if youve gotten really good really fast you must be a good athlete and maybe you will be bigtime someday.goodluck

 

[dardusm]

I don't totally agree with this. I think anybody can become a world class pool player (champion) with enough practice, dedication and desire to the game.

The people you said you could show us that practice daily everyday of their lifes are missing something. Maybe they don't have enough of a desire to become world class player or don't want to be a world champion. Just because they practice or play everyday doesn't mean their goal is to become a world champion. Maybe they gave up early or thought they couldn't do it, that right there will destroy someones desire and motivation to improve and to become a better player.

Ralf Souquet is a perfect example of this. He used to be a really good draw in tournaments and he wasn't very good. If everyone had his mindset or motivation in the pool world you would see a shitload of world champions.

For my 2 cents, I think that you can become a very good player with hard work, desire, dedication, etc. In pool, I think that it might be more obtainable than other sports due to it's nature. The physical talents for pool are not the same for other sports. I cannot and will never be able to throw a football 60 yards or dunk a basketball, no matter how much I practice.

It takes a special player to become a champion. So, I don't think just anyone can become one because of everything involved. But, I also don't think the most talented necessarily become champions either. I've seen some very good pool players with loads of talent not make it. I don't care how much talent that you have, it is still going to take work and dedication. Tiger Woods might be the hardest working player on the PGA tour and he started playing at 3 years old!

IMHO, it takes some talent and a whole lot of work (maybe more for others) and they still don't have to get there.

 

[Gatz]

This thread is going nowhere though, but in conclusion if you want to become a champion, according to "JOHN" you have to be born with it. Sorry everyone your f ucked lol

 

[Russ Chewning]

thats what im saying some people become very good quick.you might be on the pga tour someday.
i know golfers who have played everyday for 20 years.there dream is to be great.they watch tourneys,videos,take lessons ,hang around pros ,have the best clubs,gamble everyday,practice hard,live sleep and eat golf.yet they have broken 80 once in their life and say if i wanted to be a pro i could.lol what a joke.
anyway if youve gotten really good really fast you must be a good athlete and maybe you will be bigtime someday.goodluck

John,

All we are saying is...

There are multiple paths to being a champion.

Physicals gifts allow one to shortcut the process, but one CAN get there with only moderate physical gifts. They just have to practice more.

Personally, I've never met a "regular player" with the intensity and focus I had when I was 22. I did not have the physical gifts that some athletes do. But, the first time I got a full month to practice..I jumped 2 balls, and was already a pretty good player.

I think you might be laboring under the misconception that it takes phenomenal physical ability to become a champion. If you want me to, i can name off a few players that needed 5-6 or six years before they started winning events. but that's the point..They did not do it quick..But they DID it.

Russ

 

[Gatz]

For my 2 cents, I think that you can become a very good player with hard work, desire, dedication, etc. In pool, I think that it might be more obtainable than other sports due to it's nature. The physical talents for pool are not the same for other sports. I cannot and will never be able to throw a football 60 yards or dunk a basketball, no matter how much I practice.

It takes a special player to become a champion. So, I don't think just anyone can become one because of everything involved. But, I also don't think the most talented necessarily become champions either. I've seen some very good pool players with loads of talent not make it. I don't care how much talent that you have, it is still going to take work and dedication. Tiger Woods might be the hardest working player on the PGA tour and he started playing at 3 years old!

IMHO, it takes some talent and a whole lot of work (maybe more for others) and they still don't have to get there.

Well I guess I just always have believed that, if someone else can do it, so can you.

 

[john schmidt]

So if your so gifted and it's so easy for you why don't you put in some serious time and win a world title and make 200K+ a year (maybe you don't like money?)? Ah maybe you don't have the desire to?

Whats stopping you from getting to the level's of Alex P, Ralf Souquet, Ronnie Alcano, Efren Reyes, Mika Immonen, Busty etc...

I mean, if your so gifted and you don't put in much time to the game, I would think if you were to put some time in, you would be destroying these guys above. Because I don't think you're at these guys level, but I'm sure you could be. I think it's all in your head and desire to practice or the will to get better.

you know the one game ive practiced alot is 14.1 .if any of those guys would like to play me 14.1 ill play.maybe you could stake them.also i never travel internationally i dont like 30 hour flights but i do like money so maybe i should go.another thing gatz they play like 30 events a year i play about 12.believe if i went to that many i would make more money.
i think my money earned per start ratio is like second in the world this year.

 

[tom351]

No, it's not.. A great RB's eyes and brain work together probably 20% faster than mere mortals. These skills do not apply to pool and golf, where you can take as much time as you want (within limits) to take your shot. And where you can practice a specific shot type until your eyes bleed, if you wish.

"than mere mortals"...exactly my point...

Alright now..99.9999 percent of the planet? Wow. If I were in prison pitching cards in a hat for 2 years solid, I would be able to pitch cards in a hat better than 99.9999 percent of the planet.

So? What did that prove? That I was fortunate enough (lol..in prison) to have the "opportunity" to pitch cards for two years solid.

your mistaking "opportunity" for "talent".....

pitch your cards for 2 years....then i have a guy that will spot you 5 feet....

There is a relatively small amount of people on the planet who are ever afforded the opportunity to BOTH get good instruction, AND have two solid years to work on their game with no job, no family, and no concerns. And those, my friends, are the champions.

your leaving out the other group....the LARGE amount of people who get BOTH and dont go anywhere....i know 3 people who play 18 holes a day and take instruction from a golf digest top 100 teacher......i played 5 rounds in the last 2 years...would you like to back any of them if i give them 2 a side?

I actually agree! To a point. I have seen players struggle (for lack of practice time) for 2-3 years, and then heaven itself puts them in a situation where they can practice for a year with no money concerns, and they have access to champions, and lo and behold, they are beating everyone within a year.

and can get the 7,8, and 9 from the players that have "it"....

That being said.. You have to have this practice period when you are young, when you eyes and health are still good enough to take advantage.

Russ

and 85% percent of those people will never be anything other than mediocre players....

 

[Russ Chewning]

This thread is going nowhere though, but in conclusion if you want to become a champion, according to "JOHN" you have to be born with it. Sorry everyone your f ucked lol

Despite the fact that the following players had to practice for years, but still won events..

Tommy Kennedy
Reed Pierce
Oh Snazzle! Shane Van Boening! (He used to get beat by a lot of top S. Dakota players.. His family are all league champions, and even though he had great players living with him, he still had to practice.)

I think I had made my point..Hopefully? Shane IS young, but he is also WELL KNOWN for practicing 8-10 hours a day.

Russ

 

[john schmidt]

hi

i give up.no matter what i say im going to get slammed like gatz is doing.
anybody can be a champion its easy .so.all you have to do is practice everday and you on tour.oh wait a minute i know tons of guys who do that and they can get a ton of weight.
why is it that year after year its the same pros winning tourneys.every tourney im at some guy like gatz is saying ill be out there robbing everybody by next year.
next year comes along and hes nowhere to be found,and next year and next etc.

 

[john schmidt]

hi

This thread is going nowhere though, but in conclusion if you want to become a champion, according to "JOHN" you have to be born with it. Sorry everyone your f ucked lol

not if your born with it your not.your stealing then.

 

[Josh Palmer]

I think this is the sad fact of pool. For the last 7 years, the most I've been able to devote to pool at a time would be 3-4 months a year possibly. Someone showed me straight pool, and we only played in for about a year because of an annual tournament. At the end of the year I had run 171, and didn't know crap about patterns, except that they worked for me.

What is really sad, is that was about 8 years ago. I played a guy last night and the best I could manage was 35, and I am still missing the same shots I did a long time ago. It's frustrating. I will attest to the hand-eye coordination that John posesses... Everyone that knows him is envious of it, and it definitely allowed him to jump very quickly. I don't know if it makes me NOT want to play pool, or WANT to play. But I think if I had the talent he had, and still was only able to devote as little of time as I have, I would be twice the player.

On the other hand, other top players haven't been so quick to get even close to the level in golf as they are in pool... Not naming names.. So I have to wonder..

 

[tom351]

Despite the fact that the following players had to practice for years, but still won events..

Tommy Kennedy
Reed Pierce
Oh Snazzle! Shane Van Boening! (He used to get beat by a lot of top S. Dakota players.. His family are all league champions, and even though he had great players living with him, he still had to practice.)

I think I had made my point..Hopefully? Shane IS young, but he is also WELL KNOWN for practicing 8-10 hours a day.

Russ

is it your position that if shortstops had the time, money, instruction, and practiced more than shane van boening they would eventually be able to beat him?

 

[john schmidt]

hi

I think this is the sad fact of pool. For the last 7 years, the most I've been able to devote to pool at a time would be 3-4 months a year possibly. Someone showed me straight pool, and we only played in for about a year because of an annual tournament. At the end of the year I had run 171, and didn't know crap about patterns, except that they worked for me.

What is really sad, is that was about 8 years ago. I played a guy last night and the best I could manage was 35, and I am still missing the same shots I did a long time ago. It's frustrating. I will attest to the hand-eye coordination that John posesses... Everyone that knows him is envious of it, and it definitely allowed him to jump very quickly. I don't know if it makes me NOT want to play pool, or WANT to play. But I think if I had the talent he had, and still was only able to devote as little of time as I have, I would be twice the player.

josh i likede your game and i thought you could have been great.you had ability for sure.

 

[Gatz]

i give up.no matter what i say im going to get slammed like gatz is doing.
anybody can be a champion its easy .so.all you have to do is practice everday and you on tour.oh wait a minute i know tons of guys who do that and they can get a ton of weight.
why is it that year after year its the same pros winning tourneys.every tourney im at some guy like gatz is saying ill be out there robbing everybody by next year.
next year comes along and hes nowhere to be found,and next year and next etc.

I never said you would be robbing anybody LOL. I said if you are so naturally gifted and don't put in much time to practice (like you said above) why don't you put in some more time and then play at the levels of Ralf and the guys I listed.

I can bet the reason the same pros win the same tournies over and over is because they want to win more than those other guys you know that play on the tour and don't.

 

[Russ Chewning]

is it your position that if shortstops had the time, money, instruction, and practiced more than shane van boening they would eventually be able to beat him?

No.

Would they be "champions"? (As in, will snap off numerous regional events and break John if he tried to spot them the 7/8? )

Yes. I think quite a few of those shortstops, even without the spectacular hand/eye coordination of John, can get a lot closer to the top pros than John thinks.

Can they BECOME a top pro? No, I don't think so.. That's where the talent part comes in.

Russ

 

[john schmidt]

hi

This thread is going nowhere though, but in conclusion if you want to become a champion, according to "JOHN" you have to be born with it. Sorry everyone your f ucked lol

let me pose this question gatz. do you think everybody is born with the same i.q. or mental learning capacity.of course not. then why is it that you think everybody will end up the same physically when everybody knows people dont end up the same mentally.
tons of practice can not make up for something that someone is lacking between the ears.
do you also think anybody could be a world class singer,painter,musician.
of course not.
i think some people are lacking physically or mentally or both and the ones who arent lacking in either will surpass the others. look we all made some points lets just forget about it.
by the way im not saying im this good because i have better hand eye .i dont know why but i know i got good quicker than my peers at baseball,golf,and pool even though they played the same amount.

does that make me a bad guy maybe so but im just telling it like it is.so i disagree when people say if i practiced as much as him i would be as good.i know thats not true from my own experience.

 

[tom351]

I can bet the reason the same pros win the same tournies over and over is because they want to win more than those other guys you know that play on the tour and don't.

nobody wanted to be an all-american for notre dame more than rudy...

he played 2 snaps in his career...