What does Rodney Morris mean???

JMS said:
I was watching Samm Diep's What's in the case with Rodney Morris. At the 3:00 minute mark he says You don't want a cue lighter than 19.5 oz because shooting off the rail is going to be tough. What does he mean? I use a light cue and have no problems shoooting off the rail (thanks Jimmy Reid).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBDhO_EDsRw&feature=grec_index
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Well, I've got a guess. A lighter cue lets your hand wobble more on long, tough shots; a heavier cue is a steadying influence. At least that's one theory.
 
It's questions like yours that make me wish someone would do a study of the biomechanics of pool....
 
Hmmmm, my daily player is 17.3 ounces and I feel like I play off of the rail just fine, including long tough shots. I've played with heavier cues and not much difference, imo. I think that whatever you have gotten used to is fine. At least, it has been that way for me.
 
jalapus logan said:
Hmmmm, my daily player is 17.3 ounces and I feel like I play off of the rail just fine, including long tough shots. I've played with heavier cues and not much difference, imo. I think that whatever you have gotten used to is fine. At least, it has been that way for me.
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If you have to use an open bridge I think it helps to have a more forward balance, but that should be more or less independent of total weight.
 
Front weight

Jimmy hodges has a new item that adds weight to the front of a cue- designed for shooting off the rail.

I have no experience using this product, but he said the results are quite amazing.

I think his reasoning is along the lines of what bob Jewett said.

Mark Griffin
 
Mark Griffin said:
Jimmy hodges has a new item that adds weight to the front of a cue- designed for shooting off the rail.

I have no experience using this product, but he said the results are quite amazing.

I think his reasoning is along the lines of what bob Jewett said.

Mark Griffin
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Jimmy's product is a lot like a product Pat Fleming invented in the 1980s. Both are weights that slide onto the front of your cue to make sure the shaft stays on your bridge in awkward situations.
 
There are some shots that you can do with a heavier cue on a rail that you can't with a light cue.
I know a couple of them.
The MIZ showed Dennis Searing some, then Dennis showed me.
I know I'm gonna be torched over this post, but I'm just the messenger.
A couple of them have to do with jacking up on the rail, and making a stop shot.
I know it sounds crazy, but it's the truth.
AND, ever since Dennis showed me this, I played with a heavier cue.

chris<-----not bullshitting
 
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balanceadvantage.net

Go to balanceadvantage.net to see Jimmy's new product for rail shots and for shots where you are jacked up over other balls. It does exactly what Bob is talking about by putting more forward weight on the cue. IMO it does indeed help on those shots.
 
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Jimmy gave me one to at the Open to try out...

I spoke with him awhile and he didn't even Know about Pat's and laughed when I told him Pat said "it was like stealing" when you were having to bridge over a ball...

Not only does it change the balance for bridging off the rail and over balls I figured out that I could strap it on my dart jumper and that would turn it into a stroke jumper so I am happily back to carrying 1 jump cue.......

Warning if you stroke jump using it and don't get it good and tight you will have a projectile firing down your shaft at your bridge hand... OUCHIES!!! LOL
 
Anyone know the exact weight of the weight?

Would like to make one (tape a weight to my shaft?) to get an idea if it helps before buying one.
 
Slim Limpy said:
This kind of post drives me crazy. I know there are other AZ'ers out there who update their own houses, work on their own vehicles, have fix-it oriented hobbies like me and are familiar with at least as many tools as I am, but they also don't want to share ideas, I suppose, because it makes them look "cheap" -- which I am, and that's why I own the nice collection of cues I own cause I don't waste the money elsewhere.

Listen, you can go to any full service specialty tool/hardware store (an old-fashioned full-service Ace would do just fine) and buy any number of metal/plastic or man-make fibre collars in an unlimited number of interior diameters, line them with one-sided fuzzy tape (any full-service craft/hobby store carries a dozen funky types of protective tapes, like Michael's, for instance) and create yer own to test with for about $1 apiece or so, and get the weight that fits your needs.

Looking at Mike Massey's design, I'm baffled why someone would design a weight which would force the user to hold the cue in a particular way to use the device. Doesn't designing an evenly balanced full-collar device sound more reasonable and useful?
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Actually the hanging weight works pretty well and Jimmy has tested the device and made sure that no harm can come to the cue from using his device... All edges have been rounded and the weights are powder coated....

I could see making a full collared device but since this is a specialty device I don't know that balanced is what you want... I think a balanced device would actually have to weigh more to provide the same steadying influence on the cue....

I am all for retasking items and doing things yourself but at the risk of damaging a shaft I'll stick with something made for the task as long as the price isn't crazy.......

14.95 is cheap enough that I don't feel like I need to go out and MacGyver something... by the time I spend the gas and time it's not like I am going to save much if anything by the time I am satisfied with the results......
 
bogey54311 said:
There are some shots that you can do with a heavier cue on a rail that you can't with a light cue.
I know a couple of them.
The MIZ showed Dennis Searing some, then Dennis showed me.
I know I'm gonna be torched over this post, but I'm just the messenger.
A couple of them have to do with jacking up on the rail, and making a stop shot.
I know it sounds crazy, but it's the truth.
AND, ever since Dennis showed me this, I played with a heavier cue.

chris<-----not bullshitting
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Would you please describe the shots?
Thanks.
 
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bogey54311 said:
There are some shots that you can do with a heavier cue on a rail that you can't with a light cue.
I know a couple of them.
The MIZ showed Dennis Searing some, then Dennis showed me.
I know I'm gonna be torched over this post, but I'm just the messenger.
A couple of them have to do with jacking up on the rail, and making a stop shot.
I know it sounds crazy, but it's the truth.
AND, ever since Dennis showed me this, I played with a heavier cue.

chris<-----not bullshitting
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Chris,

It would be very interesting if you could provide any explanation for *why* the heavier cue might be more effective. So far, it is hard to believe. I shoot with a 19.2 oz cue, and I can pretty easily do a stop shot or even a draw shot when the cueball is frozen to the rail. Just hit into the point of the cushion. It works fine with any weight cue. Not especially accurate and wouldn't want to do it at any distance, but still not seeing the benefit of the heavy cue. Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,

KMRUNOUT
 
I believe there is truth to this. I can't prove it scientifically or any of that to please the technical junkies on here. It's just something I've experienced. I admit I could be 100% wrong as I am just commenting on things I feel.


That said, the worst cue I've used for rail shots is the Predator Z2. The very, very low end mass - which leads to low end weight, and the way it is designed to bend off the cue ball makes rail shots tougher in my opinion.


It's the same effect as having a light cue. I believe this effect is related. Heavier "stays the course" through the ball. Or perhaps feels that way. High speed video probably proves otherwise. What happens when follow is used is that the CB squirts down, and since there's no going down because of the slate - a slight jump effect is created. LD shafts likely minimize this because they hit the CB and then quickly move off the CB - rather than drive the CB off line. The standard shaft, due to higher mass, it will try and "stand it's ground" ...It feels like the CB is then driven a bit more into the cloth and that the cue is staying on the CB longer. Doubt that's true. Contact time may have nothing to do with it.


None of this is fact, none proved, just merely some feelings of what might be happening. I've seen Dr. Dave's high speed videos. Some of what I am saying doesn't jibe with what the videos have shown.


Perhaps it is psychological? Light cues, especially light cues with the use of LD shafts feels like you've got nothing up front. Like you're waving around air up there. As a result, the CB "feels" heavier. At some point, there has to be a certain range of CB weight to cue weight relationship that is ideal. I think that's already been found and it's the common weights of 18 - 21oz. Given a CB being 5.5 - 6.0oz.


The heavier cue doesn't feel like it "bounces" off the CB as much. Or "deflects off" as much. Especially on rail shots. Again, it very well could be psychological. I think it may have to do with perception and feel/feedback. Driving through the ball, having a nice solid follow through where the cue remains in line is feedback that confirms the stroke. Very light cues feel like they don't stay on track (they actually might not?) which then brings doubt into whether the stroke itself was pure and straight. When the cue as a whole stays in line, and the shaft drives through the ball and doesn't bend off in some direction - I think that is very confidence inspiring. The result matches the input so to speak. I think it's also one reason a lot of players like stiff hitting cues.

I think it is difficult for some players to build consistency or confidence with a cue that is light or whippy, because they stroke that very cue the same as any other cue (such as a heavy or stiff cue)...they control that whole process. Up until the CB is contacted. That's when the cue now reacts based on its physical properties. The light whippy cue tends to have more movement within the cue, and possibly in relation to the line of the shot. The heavier cue moves less, and more closely resembles the stroke as it was PRIOR to contact.


This similarity pre and post contact is more uniform, and feels more consistent. On a light, whippy cue...the end of the stroke (after CB contact) is a bit more different than the stroke leading into contact. You do one thing, the result is a bit different. A heavier cue, especially one with a stiffer shaft - you do one thing, the result is almost the same.
 
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