What does Team USA’s Mosconi Cup future look like?
- Thread starter Brozif
- Start date
Yeah they are. Hatch doesn't play at all and the others are past their prime.
True- you'd have to give them time to get up to speed.
Perhaps I haven't been paying attention too closely, but I don't remember specific high profile very competitive events that Styer and Robinson have won either. I know Styer played well a few Mosconi Cups ago and Robinson played above expectations this year, but it's not like they are world beaters.
We forgot to mention Josh Roberts. Is he considered too old to be included for the team? I think he could definitely hold his own against these guys too.
Oscar Dominguez is another guy on their level if not better when he has time to play.
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Styer won the 2019 Kremlin Cup over a solid field in Russia. Chris Robinson has won Mezz Tour events in Califorinia.
Finally, I am with you on Josh Roberts. He has been overlooked for too long. He is definitely an elite player.
HUH???? WTF is a 'pro pool career'???? Living broke in a pos apartment?? The kid got a degree and is a teacher iirc. He made the right move.
Without anything in place with the proper STRUCTURE to groom and season our juniors graduating out of the BEF (like Sky, Billy, Tyler and Chris) the future looks pretty GRIM! Europe has the Eurotour bridging this gap. We have had NOTHING for almost 30 years now. This is where the NBL comes in! The all new National Billiards League (American only PRO TOUR) kicking off next month is designed to do just that! Visit NBLUSA.com for full details. ALL ARE WELCOME!
www.NBLUSA.com
www.NBLUSA.com
I understand- he likely made the right decision. It is a tough career.
However, his talent was so elite he may have been as good as somebody like SVB. I think SVB lives fairly comfortably.
We've had nothing for 30 years? Not exactly.
The Camel Tour, which existed until about 20 years ago, not 30, was the perfect grooming vehicle for grooming American talent BECAUSE it featured so many very elite internationals, including stone cold killers Ralf Souquet, Rodolfo Luat, Efren Reyes, Francisco Bustamante, Warren Kiamco, Oliver Ortmann, Jose Parica, Leonardo Andam, Antonio Lining and others. Had the PBT/Camel Tour been restricted to Americans, it would have been of far less value to emerging American talent. CJ Wiley's PCA Tour was also around until about 20 years ago., and it featured killer fields. I would further suggest that Charlie Williams' UPA tour, which was around until about 2007, offered decent, internationally diverse fields, which offered emerging American players a good chance to develop their competitive pedigrees against many of the stars of international pool.
As Jay Helfert has noted, and with which I strongly agree, the biggest obstacle to the development of young American players is the fact that they so rarely get to compete against the game's most elite because, with rare exception, they forego the international WPA schedule events. Other than Mike Dechaine, who is retired from competition, there is just one American who is in the World's Top 35 based on Fargo rating, and that, of course, is Shane.
I greatly admire what you're doing here, and wish you every possible success in your venture, but I do not feel that a tour for Americans only will sufficiently prepare America's youth for success on the world stage. An emerging player needs to compete against the world's best, not just America's best. unless we wish to see the gap between American pool and overseas pool grow. Hope I'm wrong!
I agree with you (as usual) on the greatness of the above mentioned tours however, many American players including established professionals shy away from entering pro events due to the fact that they are overpowered by the international competitors allowed to enter today's open events which I also believe in, support and work for. American players simply cannot afford the costs of entry, travel and lodging into events that they must place 5th or better to break even on when they are the longshot to boot.
With the combination of a feasible and accessible American only tour AND the many independent events we host which are open to internationally competing world beaters, we will then have enough opportunities for our players to grow and develop their game to maximum potential.
True, we had those great tours 20 years ago (still too long ago) open to the World of competitors and our very best American players were able to enter at an overall loss. What nationwide American Tour have we had in the past 30 years? I don't claim to know everything. Perhaps you could refresh my memory or add something to the list for me to examine and consider.
I hope to drag American players out of retirement to play in the NBL such as Mike Dechaine and other inactive players. I also wish to entice other players from around the World to come reside and play in the USA just as the NBA did with Yao Ming or the MLB does with the Dominican Republic.
In conclusion, I agree with you that our up and coming players must compete against the World's best which I also encourage them to do so in the US Open, Derby City Classic and International Open type events. I also don't want them to have to beg for money to do so once or twice and then have to do a quantum leap from the BEF to the World Stage and get discouraged from continuing in their career whatsoever once they realize how far behind we actually are already. They need constant competition and seasoning prepping them for the World Class events with smaller victories fueling their confidence along the way. No?
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I didn't know there had ever been a tour restricted to Americans, and I've been around the pro scene since 1976. A case can be made that the PPPA, conceived in 1976 by Americans such as Steve Mizerak, Allen Hopkins, Ray Martin, Pat Fleming, Pete Margo and several others set out to be that, but in the end, some of the elite internationals sometimes played in PPPA events, a young Jose Parica among them. The PPPA had largely run out of steam by 1983, and was gone by 1986.
What you're saying then, is that your tour will supplement the events in which the elite internationals are able to enter, and that your tour will, thus, financially enable emerging players to enter most of the top events. I did not fully understand this, but that's a noble goal.
Wishing you every possible success. You are and always have been a credit to pool, so I'm optimistic.
This is not true.
I watched the MOSCONI CUP semi-regularly for the last few years, before that was VERY spotty.
Couple years ago I was rather dismayed at the poor showings of the USA team. Where Team Europe practiced drills, US didn't practice.
What US Team needs are TEAM PLAYERS. Those who can offer and accept suggestions & solutions, not the "I, ME, MINE" syndrome.
My $0.00002
Couple years ago I was rather dismayed at the poor showings of the USA team. Where Team Europe practiced drills, US didn't practice.
What US Team needs are TEAM PLAYERS. Those who can offer and accept suggestions & solutions, not the "I, ME, MINE" syndrome.
My $0.00002
Wow, I really don't agree with this at all. There is a big gap in pedigree here between Team USA and Team Europe, and no amount of teamwork will be even close to enough to beat a team that has three of the last four WPA World 9-ball Champions (Gorst, Filler, Ouschan, and Shaw, who has won both the US Open 9-ball and the International 9-ball. Even Klenti Kaci is a former #1 ranked player on both WPA and Eurotour. All five members of Team Europe are better players than all but Shane on Team USA.
Teamwork, schweamwork. What's needed is better players.
Yes, to a point, but it's a small factor.
Do you feel that Team USA won in both 2018 and 2019 with poor teamwork? I sure don't. This year, due to the lack of pro pool and the impracticality of in-person team building events for safety reasons, neither Europe nor USA had the team building opportunities that are customary.
In particular, teamwork is barely an issue at all in singles, and this year Team Europe went 6-1 in singles, losing its one match double hill. Europe's domination in singles had absolutely nothing to do with teamwork, and everything to do with being the favorites in nearly every match.
To be fair, it would difficult to find 5 guys that would be strongly favored against this year's European team. Filler and Shaw are top notch 9 and 10 ball players- it would be interesting to see them play each other in a long race actually. Ouschan is a highly accomplished player on the biggest of stages. Gorst and Kaci are phenoms.
Perhaps this team would be favored, but not strongly: Orcullo, SVB, Biado, Chang, and Wu.
Perhaps this team would be favored, but not strongly: Orcullo, SVB, Biado, Chang, and Wu.
In all basics we're discussing two different entities, but I'll humor you. I'm only relating my teams here.
Whenever a player on my team was a loner he had 'X' winning % and didn't progress. Players who accepted suggestions & pointers, they grew & we took 1st every time, yes every time. I'm not only talking pool but bowling, darts, hockey, softball, etc.. I truly believe in teamwork, it's how we learn other ways to get around obstacles & NOT become stagnate.
As for M.C. 2018-19, I didn't watch nor did I inquire, not even have an interest in Youtube. I was that fed-up with those players and basically I saw buckling under pressure. Relating to the above my teams, I didn't see C.J. chatting much to his players until it was too late. By that time the 'I lost' attitude was set.
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westcoast : I can't relate since I don't know nor watched them play.
I agree that "team" can't help you when it is 1 v 1 in a physical sense, but I don't think you can dismiss it in a "team" competition.
What I mean is, when you are playing for a team..a collective group, it brings a whole different psyche into the mix than simply playing for yourself.
There are examples all throughout "individual " sports competitions. To a a man, pro golfers that have comleted in the Ryder cup will tell you that the pressure is greater, likewise with Tennis players. Ask a pro tennis player who has competed in the Davis cup if the pressure is different.
Heck, I worked with a tennis coach who played singles at Wimbledon, the most prestigious tournament in the tennis world, and he told me directly that the doubles draw was much more stressful because he was so worried about letting his partner down.
In athletics, when you are playing for an ideal that is much larger than your individual self, it can inspire those with less individual talent to achieve greater heights.
I would imagine that the "point spread" during the last 2 US victories was almost as large as this year in favor of the Euros. So what is the difference? I don't believe dropping Kazakhis and adding Gorst was the difference...