What exacly happens under the pressure?

BAZARUS

BAZARUS

alien in a strange land
Silver Member
I have been asking myself this question since I started to play poker in april last year. I really don't feel any preassure playing poker. Is this because I'm really good or because I am just having fun playing it? Poker doesn't really requires much skill, but decision making is crucial. Pool requires lots of skill, but decison making is important as well.
I was thinking that it would be great to apply the same aproach to pool, but I can't figure it out how. What exacly causes folding under the preassure? Why muscles works differently and why decisions are wrong? Why at some point pool game becomes a mental game?
 
BAZARUS said:
I have been asking myself this question since I started to play poker in april last year. I really don't feel any preassure playing poker. Is this because I'm really good or because I am just having fun playing it? Poker doesn't really requires much skill, but decision making is crucial. Pool requires lots of skill, but decison making is important as well.
I was thinking that it would be great to apply the same aproach to pool, but I can't figure it out how. What exacly causes folding under the preassure? Why muscles works differently and why decisions are wrong? Why at some point pool game becomes a mental game?
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I think this is because it is pool has an extra ingredient. Once you make a decision in poker (check, bet, call, raise, fold, etc.), you need only announce your decision to execute it accurately. In pool, once you have made your decision, it requires additional skill to execute that decision accurately, because you still must find your aim and proceed with your stroke.
 
I suppose if you're playing for lots of cash, your hands just might start to tremble at card games as well.
Other than the possibility to lose money, I don't see any connection between pool and card games of any sort. With pool, it is much more important to win something, prove your status, beating very good players, winning a local league, whatever, than to simply win money.
 
Because when playing poker you can completely screw up a hand and just throw the cards away or fold and nobody really knows how bad you played unless your on TV. In pool it's blatently obvious when you miss or screw up because your right out there in the open.

Also poker is largely luck, with the good players knowing more odds and betting moves, but you will never play at a final table at the Derby City with luck!

Also, when playing pool, your speed is easy to guage when playing all out and not ducking, in poker you can hide being green sometimes a little easier with luck, and very little training, taking away some of the pressure.

Poker can also be played well in a very short amount of time compared to pool, which some people may never play up to thier own standards.

Gerry
 
hard to answer your Q because everyone is motivated differently.

seems to me, in playing games, one chokes when he magnifies moments of thought, those points when he breaks rhythm. pat ewing always choked at the freethrow line in really BIG games. he had this momentary hitch just before releasing the ball. i always thought this hitch gave him a moment of hesitation that broke his rhythm and made him think too much before release.

pool has too many moments when you think about your shot. i think it's especially bad if you think when you're down on the shot. better to think about it BEFORE getting down on the shot.

poker is not the same. it is not an active sport. the whole process is a thought process.
 
BAZARUS said:
I have been asking myself this question since I started to play poker in april last year. I really don't feel any preassure playing poker. Is this because I'm really good or because I am just having fun playing it? Poker doesn't really requires much skill, but decision making is crucial. Pool requires lots of skill, but decison making is important as well.
I was thinking that it would be great to apply the same aproach to pool, but I can't figure it out how. What exacly causes folding under the preassure? Why muscles works differently and why decisions are wrong? Why at some point pool game becomes a mental game?
Click to expand...

You question is a great one. But both Poker & Pool are skill games IMO. ;)
 
PoolSleuth said:
You question is a great one. But both Poker & Pool are skill games IMO. ;)
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You may want to check out the book "Pleasures of Small Motions" by Bob Fancher. IMHO it's one of the best books on understanding the mental processes behind playing Pool. The most important concept is that you cannot hope or expect to eliminate having emotional responses whilst playing and that those responses will change as the game and environment change. The key is acknowledging and managing your emotional responses to ensure you are still able to perform to your best ability.

Clearly you have a different emotional response when playing Poker than when playing Pool. Work on understanding the root causes of your emotions and you will be better able to anticipate and manage them.
 
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Gregg said:
What happens? The pockets get tighter. That's what happens.:D
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No wonder they gets tighter. Those damn pros packing 6 or 7 racks at any given time, what can you do. :eek:
 
Blackjack said:
Here is a link to an article (Extremely lengthy) but it has a lot of good remedies for choking. I'm in the process of putting up several other articles up at this page also, many deal with this subject specifically.

The Art Of The Choke - Book Version
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Blackjack, thanks for the link and the great info.

I was amused at your analogy of "taking out the trash," as I use the exact same thing to, first, when I'm still shooting, to throw my bad thoughts into the wastebasket, and second, when I'm done with a game/match, to take the watebasket out to the trash barrel and be done with it.

I don't take every bad thought directly out to the garage and the trash barrel; I throw it into the wastebasket in my mind until I have the time and opportunity to take it outside, if that makes sense. That way, I don't take myself out of the current situation (the game/match) with my trashy thinking, while still allowing myself to cleanse the negative/bad crap after I'm done shooting.

Jeff Livingston
 
sjm said:
I think this is because it is pool has an extra ingredient. Once you make a decision in poker (check, bet, call, raise, fold, etc.), you need only announce your decision to execute it accurately. In pool, once you have made your decision, it requires additional skill to execute that decision accurately, because you still must find your aim and proceed with your stroke.
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Good answer and well put.

Gabber
 
Aunty Dan said,

The most important concept is that you cannot hope or expect to eliminate having emotional responses whilst playing and that those responses will change as the game and environment change. The key is acknowledging and managing your emotional responses to ensure you are still able to perform to your best ability.
Click to expand...

I agree 100% with this.

Gabber.................must read this book.
 
BAZARUS said:
What exacly causes folding under the preassure? Why muscles works differently and why decisions are wrong? Why at some point pool game becomes a mental game?
Click to expand...
We tend to forget what got us to that point. Practice. When you practice, you concentrate on what you're doing, not what the score is, who your opponent is, how tough of a shot it is you're facing, or how much money is on the line. Once those thoughts creep into your mind, your practice routine goes out the window. The top players have gone through it as well but they've learned to deal with it, they play "their" game whether it's 0-0, 0-9, or 9-0. Oh well, just a thought. Peace, John.
 
Pool requires the use of large and small motor functions, whereas poker is only mental. Not only do we need visual acuity, aim, and stroke, but judgements about degree of thinness/thickness of cut, english, and speed control. There's a whole lot that can go wrong on any of those aspects.

The mental side can share some of the same aspects as cards - figuring out percentages of success, whether to duck or be aggressive, weighing your opponent's percentages, etc. But when it comes time to call in the musculature action combined with the pressure situation, every flaw becomes magnified into the physical action of shooting.

For instance, have you ever had a shot in a pressure situation where you know there could be a scratch there if you don't take care of it, so you think you are taking care of it (by jacking up or using english) and you scratch anyway (or miss the ball?) The physical side could not perform after the mental decision was made. In poker, if you know there could be a pitfall, you play the odds and usually avoid the fall. It's pretty cut and dried and the outcome is determined by the cards, not from any physical action you took after your decision.
 
The answer is two fold, know your opponent and have confidence. Confidence is more valuable in pool than poker but knowing your opponent is more valuable in poker than pool. If you know the skill level you are playing against in each game you have the advantage.
 
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