What expectations should a buyer have when they purchase a Custom Cue
- Thread starter manwon
- Start date
Cuemaker/Customer relations
Actually, when you buy a custom cue, you enter into an oral contract with the cuemaker, such being in good faith. Your relations during the make time fall under the 'good faith', meaning that they keep you apprised of a completion date, progress on the product, and cooperate with you in answering any questions you might have.
A receipt of your down payment (like 50% upfront) is acknowledgment of that contract you have with the cuemaker. And you should always get a receipt because courts require documented proof most of the time.
A good cuemaker knows that the customer's experience in buying a cue from them is just as important as the product they produce, and will keep them coming back.
Actually, when you buy a custom cue, you enter into an oral contract with the cuemaker, such being in good faith. Your relations during the make time fall under the 'good faith', meaning that they keep you apprised of a completion date, progress on the product, and cooperate with you in answering any questions you might have.
A receipt of your down payment (like 50% upfront) is acknowledgment of that contract you have with the cuemaker. And you should always get a receipt because courts require documented proof most of the time.
A good cuemaker knows that the customer's experience in buying a cue from them is just as important as the product they produce, and will keep them coming back.
In business, communication is the 'essence' of business, as is true in life and love. Without it, failure will be your outcome.
I voted and didnt read the thread.
I'm a business man in a varity of businesses for many years, some of my businesses it is impossible for my customers to reach me, however there is awalys someone in my staff there to be there to handle the customers questions, orders etc. we track the length of time they are on hold and staff the call centers accordinglly so we dont ignore any customer no matter what the case is or how many times they have called, nit in any busibness I have owned have we dodged a customer-even if we havent collected their payment
as a custome of some VERY famous, busy, 10 year wait list cue makers I have never had to wait more than 2 weeks to talk to the cue maker and thats the exception, with out naming who i'm talking about I had never spent a penny with a cue maker who has a 5 years list-he didnt know me from Adam and everytime I called him he either answered the phone or called back within a day or 2, since I have paid him, he still returns my calls or answres the phone like he did BEFORE I paid him. nothing changed after he collected the $$$, infact I didnt know my office paid him and I asked if I had paid him because I was out of the loop and he said yeah your good-I had no clue. he didnt change after he got the $$$, i didnt know he got the $$$. thats how it should be.
nobody in the world cue maker or not can awalys get to the phone on the same day but I dont cae what the chrisis is even a death a dedicated business man will return calls, the day my mom died nobody knew about it, thats how mom wanted it, so in her honor I didnt skip a beat. the only time I'm off the air for maor than 3 days is after a back operation by day 5 i have all my calls returned that need be,
no excuse for not being avaliable to your customers, employees, vendors etc when your a self employeed biz man, any less isnt a biz man its a person acting like one but not walking the walk.
i dont even know why/who this is all about and it dosent matter, biz is biz. i'm not picking sides just stating my opinions from the questions in the poll.
I'm a business man in a varity of businesses for many years, some of my businesses it is impossible for my customers to reach me, however there is awalys someone in my staff there to be there to handle the customers questions, orders etc. we track the length of time they are on hold and staff the call centers accordinglly so we dont ignore any customer no matter what the case is or how many times they have called, nit in any busibness I have owned have we dodged a customer-even if we havent collected their payment
as a custome of some VERY famous, busy, 10 year wait list cue makers I have never had to wait more than 2 weeks to talk to the cue maker and thats the exception, with out naming who i'm talking about I had never spent a penny with a cue maker who has a 5 years list-he didnt know me from Adam and everytime I called him he either answered the phone or called back within a day or 2, since I have paid him, he still returns my calls or answres the phone like he did BEFORE I paid him. nothing changed after he collected the $$$, infact I didnt know my office paid him and I asked if I had paid him because I was out of the loop and he said yeah your good-I had no clue. he didnt change after he got the $$$, i didnt know he got the $$$. thats how it should be.
nobody in the world cue maker or not can awalys get to the phone on the same day but I dont cae what the chrisis is even a death a dedicated business man will return calls, the day my mom died nobody knew about it, thats how mom wanted it, so in her honor I didnt skip a beat. the only time I'm off the air for maor than 3 days is after a back operation by day 5 i have all my calls returned that need be,
no excuse for not being avaliable to your customers, employees, vendors etc when your a self employeed biz man, any less isnt a biz man its a person acting like one but not walking the walk.
i dont even know why/who this is all about and it dosent matter, biz is biz. i'm not picking sides just stating my opinions from the questions in the poll.
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manwon said:
Craig, I agree 100% with everything you've wrote here. AZ Billiards has provided a place where cuemakers can come and sell or show their goods without ever leaving home. With a few clicks of a mouse almost 12,000 AZ members can be reached without costing a cuemaker one cent. The AZ community has supported many cuemakers and helped allow them to be paid to work at a job they love. To not communicate or in some cases flat out lie to the members here is nothing short of a slap in the face. Were it not for AZ few of these people would be known out of their home state.
On the positive side I just recently recieved a cue from AZ'er MasonH. Lots of communication, more than fair price, and delivered on time. Not to mention one of the better playing cues I've had. For all of these reasons I've already spoken to him about making another.
Hambone<--may have to get on Manwons list too.
Having ordered many custom cues over the years, I've had both pleasant and unpleasant experiances.
The pleasant usually consist of cues that are delivered on time or at least communication explaining a delay. They are built to my expectations.
The unsatisfactory cues are those were the cuemakerer went way beyond the quoted time, without at least some followup as to the delays. Communication is the key...I can certainly make allowances as long as the cuemaker keeps me in the loop.
My biggest problem has been the receipt of cues that are way below expectation. ie....warped, bad finish, rattling, etc....I've had cuemakers that have stood behind their product (as they should). I've also had cuemakers that drop you like a hot potato as soon as the cue is delivered, regardless whether there are legitimate problems or not.
As a result, I no longer do business with "new" cuemakers. I only deal with experianced cuemakers that have been around awhile. For that reason, I'm willing to pay a little more for their expertise.
Doug
The pleasant usually consist of cues that are delivered on time or at least communication explaining a delay. They are built to my expectations.
The unsatisfactory cues are those were the cuemakerer went way beyond the quoted time, without at least some followup as to the delays. Communication is the key...I can certainly make allowances as long as the cuemaker keeps me in the loop.
My biggest problem has been the receipt of cues that are way below expectation. ie....warped, bad finish, rattling, etc....I've had cuemakers that have stood behind their product (as they should). I've also had cuemakers that drop you like a hot potato as soon as the cue is delivered, regardless whether there are legitimate problems or not.
As a result, I no longer do business with "new" cuemakers. I only deal with experianced cuemakers that have been around awhile. For that reason, I'm willing to pay a little more for their expertise.
Doug
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Fatboy said:
Thanks Fatboy, I could not agree more with your thinking, everything you have said is exactly what it takes to be successful in business, and cue making is business.
i dont even know why/who this is all about and it dosent matter, biz is biz. i'm not picking sides just stating my opinions from the questions in the poll.[/
I will tell you what this Poll is about, currently on this forum we have an individual who has taken money from close to 10 fellow members. His name is Kevin Varney, Kevin has fallen off the face of the earth. He will not answer anyones PM, only one member apparently has Kevin's real phone number. This member was helping with communications to Kevin, but even he has stopped posting, not that is his responsibility in the first place. You may have seen the threads that reference this over the last few weeks.
These threads got a little ugly, and they were pulled by the forum because of it. The forum also has a number of people who support Kevin even in these times, which is certainly their right, but it is also is very cold in my opinion.
So while the above situation prompted this Poll, I also think that this should be public. Anyone doing business on this site should be prepared to do business in a professional manner, or be aware that some one is mostly watching and will take the time to expose them.
Fatboy, I do not think today that there is any excuse for a lack of communication. Like you said above, things happen, it may take a few days, however, when it turns into a week or weeks, it is more then just a lack of communication.
Thanks Craig
Hambone said:
Thanks for the kind words, and I agree that Mason makes a great cue. I have a friend who bought one and loves the way the cue plays. I also agree that we as members need to help expose those who for what ever reason want to take advantage of, or feel theirs needs are above simple communication with other members they have taken money from for product or services.
Have a great night!!!!!!! thanks for your input !!!!
I recently purchased a custom Joss from Dan Janes. They built the cue to my specs, including an 8pc radially laminated shaft (Joss shaft, non-Pred or OB). Dan talked with me directly during the entire process. He took the deposit as a pending charge on my credit card. He charged it the day the cue shipped. He was literally bang on with his timelines. I got a 5 pointer with 4 veneers and inlays in the butt section for $750. Excellent price from a cuemaker with a reputation beyond repute.
I will NEVER buy a cue from the small guy ever again. Too many problems with the "self righteous" attitude (who truly makes a unique cue? LMAO) of some of the new cuemakers. Dan was down to earth, and did everything I asked. And, he's one of the guys whose actually entitled to have an attitude, with nearly 40 years experience in cuemaking.
I will NEVER buy a cue from the small guy ever again. Too many problems with the "self righteous" attitude (who truly makes a unique cue? LMAO) of some of the new cuemakers. Dan was down to earth, and did everything I asked. And, he's one of the guys whose actually entitled to have an attitude, with nearly 40 years experience in cuemaking.
cue--munication
I for one do not visit forums much. Too much trash to wade through. So reps and itrade may not reflect my efforts well. I also have a one man shop and there never is enough time in the day to spend hours just talking to individuals. The customer needs to know where he/she stands but they also need to understand they are not the only customer I have. I try hard to answer their questions within a "reasonable" time-frame. Their "reasonable" is not necessarily my "reasonable". There may be extenuating circumstances that requires a delay in my response. The customer always has the right to move on somewhere else if they are not satisfied.
A customer needs to deal directly with the cue maker and not expect him/her to have to go to the "hot forum of the day" to find out if they are happy or not. A $$$ deposit is our contract to start the cue project. Occasional updates along the way with a picture or two is common. Payment details need to be worked out early in the transaction and agreed upon by both parties. Change orders can take extra time and are frequently more expensive. Give the cuemaker time to deal with the intricacies in the cue making process. Wood takes time to age (season) and work properly. Many of us are striving to build high quality playing instruments, not just an aesthetically pleasing artwork. Our reputations are at stake. Quality takes time and patience. Remember the hurry-der I go the behind-er I get. Many of us want to have a "life" also and not have to work 24/7 on cues. Your work IS important but so is our wellbeing.
You are all welcome to visit my website (www.triplecrosscues.com) and email me if you have questions. I will respond in a "reasonable" time.
Tom Gedris, Triple Cross Cues
I for one do not visit forums much. Too much trash to wade through. So reps and itrade may not reflect my efforts well. I also have a one man shop and there never is enough time in the day to spend hours just talking to individuals. The customer needs to know where he/she stands but they also need to understand they are not the only customer I have. I try hard to answer their questions within a "reasonable" time-frame. Their "reasonable" is not necessarily my "reasonable". There may be extenuating circumstances that requires a delay in my response. The customer always has the right to move on somewhere else if they are not satisfied.
A customer needs to deal directly with the cue maker and not expect him/her to have to go to the "hot forum of the day" to find out if they are happy or not. A $$$ deposit is our contract to start the cue project. Occasional updates along the way with a picture or two is common. Payment details need to be worked out early in the transaction and agreed upon by both parties. Change orders can take extra time and are frequently more expensive. Give the cuemaker time to deal with the intricacies in the cue making process. Wood takes time to age (season) and work properly. Many of us are striving to build high quality playing instruments, not just an aesthetically pleasing artwork. Our reputations are at stake. Quality takes time and patience. Remember the hurry-der I go the behind-er I get. Many of us want to have a "life" also and not have to work 24/7 on cues. Your work IS important but so is our wellbeing.
You are all welcome to visit my website (www.triplecrosscues.com) and email me if you have questions. I will respond in a "reasonable" time.
Tom Gedris, Triple Cross Cues
Communication...
When I order a cue I give my spec's and discuss them with the cuemaker after that it's up to him. If there is a wait list I send an email once a year to let the cuemaker know I'm still alive and still want a cue.
Other than that when I place my order I say call me if you have any questions or other ideas about the cue.
Then I wait for the cue. Anything more than that is wasting the cuemakers time.
I mean if you trust the cuemaker enough to order a cue...then trust him.
When I order a cue I give my spec's and discuss them with the cuemaker after that it's up to him. If there is a wait list I send an email once a year to let the cuemaker know I'm still alive and still want a cue.
Other than that when I place my order I say call me if you have any questions or other ideas about the cue.
Then I wait for the cue. Anything more than that is wasting the cuemakers time.
I mean if you trust the cuemaker enough to order a cue...then trust him.
HIRUN526 said:
Scott, I agree with your approach....this is basically my approach as well. But that being said, it does hurt (don't know if this is the right word?) when a cuemaker strings you out. I understand that life happens and I have an order with a CM going on 7 years now that was quoted in 2-3. I'm patiently waiting and will stay in touch periodically. But we are all our own individuals and many are much less patient than me....
With respect to deposits.....philosophically, I don't agree with them. IMO no CM, especially someone that's world class, should require one unless it's a peculiar design or unusual specs. It seems that some guys (especially the newer guys) use deposits to cash flow their business and that doesn't make sense to me. Personally, I don't much like the idea of paying a deposit and knowing that a CM won't start for X number of weeks, months, or years. Think about it, that's like a contractor working on your house that requires a down payment to begin work (those are the guys you want to stay away from). If a CM needs to see commitment from a buyer, a payment halfway through the build and then the balance at the end seems like a better option in my mind.
Just a few random thoughts....
Just a few random thoughts....
bad example
I don't know of a contractor around here that doesn't collect a deposit up front, at least one payment along the way and then a final payment when work is completed and approved. Likewise, there is nothing wrong with cue makers collecting reasonable deposits. Too many people with stars in their eyes are inclined to start high dollar projects with no idea how they will pay for them. Nothing like getting a substantial deposit up front to make these people consider if they are really ready to make that much of an investment in a cue or if they are just daydreaming at a cuemakers expense.
I do agree that it isn't necessary to get more than a token deposit, if any, to put someone on a waiting list. When I commit materials and time to a certain project I expect some commitment on the buyer's part too. That commitment comes in cash!
When I ran a four to six month waiting list in another business it didn't cost a dime to get on the list. However I didn't start work without knowing that the customer would be willing and able to pay for it on completion. Just good business. Misleading customers or flat lying to them is another story as is collecting large deposits or even 100% deposits upfront and spending the money before you start work.
Hu
I don't know of a contractor around here that doesn't collect a deposit up front, at least one payment along the way and then a final payment when work is completed and approved. Likewise, there is nothing wrong with cue makers collecting reasonable deposits. Too many people with stars in their eyes are inclined to start high dollar projects with no idea how they will pay for them. Nothing like getting a substantial deposit up front to make these people consider if they are really ready to make that much of an investment in a cue or if they are just daydreaming at a cuemakers expense.
I do agree that it isn't necessary to get more than a token deposit, if any, to put someone on a waiting list. When I commit materials and time to a certain project I expect some commitment on the buyer's part too. That commitment comes in cash!
When I ran a four to six month waiting list in another business it didn't cost a dime to get on the list. However I didn't start work without knowing that the customer would be willing and able to pay for it on completion. Just good business. Misleading customers or flat lying to them is another story as is collecting large deposits or even 100% deposits upfront and spending the money before you start work.
Hu
cueaddicts said:
There was a time when I might have agreed with you but not now.
Im currently dealing with a young man that ask if I would finance a cue for him (allow him to pay $1100.00 in monthly payments). My build schedule was only 90 days (damn, that sounds familiar doesnt it)!!!
I've received one payment of $100.00 and several excuses. His cue is done and ready to go out the door. Ive done my part, now its time for him to do his. Funny thing though, his phone has been disconnected and his email is no longer valid.
Could I sell the cue? Of course. Will I? No. Ill have the satisfaction of knowing I was more than honest and communicated with him just like I agreed to do.
Im currently dealing with a young man that ask if I would finance a cue for him (allow him to pay $1100.00 in monthly payments). My build schedule was only 90 days (damn, that sounds familiar doesnt it)!!!
I've received one payment of $100.00 and several excuses. His cue is done and ready to go out the door. Ive done my part, now its time for him to do his. Funny thing though, his phone has been disconnected and his email is no longer valid.
Could I sell the cue? Of course. Will I? No. Ill have the satisfaction of knowing I was more than honest and communicated with him just like I agreed to do.
cueaddicts said:
TellsItLikeItIs said:
Tap Tap Tap, this is exactly how to handle the situation. There will always be those who fail to honor their contracts / their WORD, Cue makers and Customers, but like you said the self satisfaction of doing the right thing is something nothing compares to. It is also whats makes an individual like what and who they are and without being proud of what we are, life is a terrible form of existence. Because no matter where a person go's or what they attempt to do their dishonest nature, lack or respect for themselves, and the way they treat others will always show through.
Have a good day!!!!!!