What happened to Deanoc?

[garczar]

What did RKC do?

Seriously?? Don't remember 'rail-gate'?

 

[logical]

What about Atilla the hun, what did he ever do to you?

He never misrepresented a cue he was selling but I've heard there were some other issues. I didn't bring him or Madoff up...I'm trying to steer it on topic, not off.

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[Straightpool_99]

He never misrepresented a cue he was selling but I've heard there were some other issues. I didn't bring him or Madoff up...I'm trying to steer it on topic, not off.

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My post was an attempt at a joke, a poor one.

 

[ChrisSjoblom]

Someone can play great with a Dale Perry too. But if I sell you a DP, but call it something else, I’ve committed fraud.


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If your main knock on Dean's action is that he sold a product under a name other than the actual manufacturer of that product you really don't have much of a leg to stand on, given that this has long been accepted as a fair business practice in most industries.

I am most familiar with the appliance industry so I will use that as my main example. Appliance companies re-market other manufacturers' products as their own all the time and it is completely accepted within the industry. For example Bosch builds some of their own appliances but also re-badges Frigidaire ranges and sells them as Bosch. Fisher & Paykel build many of their own laundry appliances, but they also re-badge GE dryers and sell them as Fisher & Paykel. Kenmore, the largest selling brand of appliances in the world, never built even one appliance. They have always bought from other manufacturers and had the makers label them as Kenmore. A few of these had feature combinations that were exclusive to Kenmore, but many more were identical copies of machines already being built by the manufacturers.

The automotive industry incorporates the same practice. The Chevy Nova in the 1980s was simply a re-badged Toyota Corolla. The Dodge Stealth was 100% a Mitsubishi 3000GT. The ford Courier was just a relabeled Mazda B2000. In each of these examples the actual manufacturer was building better products than were the rebranding companies, so the mere fact that a product is sold under a different name as the builder's doesn't mean the product is somehow inferior.

The same holds true for the the food industry. In a southern Wisconsin cannery that a friend of mine manages they regularly put out cans of vegetables labeled as Libby's, Sure Fine, Food Club, Del Monte, Great Value, and several other brands, all from the same exact line with no changes to the contents whatsoever. Only the labels change. This is true no matter what the food product or packaging process. That's why when you read of a food recall it usually involves several different brands of the same product all coming from the same facility.

 

[logical]

If your main knock on Dean's action is that he sold a product under a name other than the actual manufacturer of that product you really don't have much of a leg to stand on, given that this has long been accepted as a fair business practice in most industries.

I am most familiar with the appliance industry so I will use that as my main example. Appliance companies re-market other manufacturers' products as their own all the time and it is completely accepted within the industry. For example Bosch builds some of their own appliances but also re-badges Frigidaire ranges and sells them as Bosch. Fisher & Paykel build many of their own laundry appliances, but they also re-badge GE dryers and sell them as Fisher & Paykel. Kenmore, the largest selling brand of appliances in the world, never built even one appliance. They have always bought from other manufacturers and had the makers label them as Kenmore. A few of these had feature combinations that were exclusive to Kenmore, but many more were identical copies of machines already being built by the manufacturers.

The automotive industry incorporates the same practice. The Chevy Nova in the 1980s was simply a re-badged Toyota Corolla. The Dodge Stealth was 100% a Mitsubishi 3000GT. The ford Courier was just a relabeled Mazda B2000. In each of these examples the actual manufacturer was building better products than were the rebranding companies, so the mere fact that a product is sold under a different name as the builder's doesn't mean the product is somehow inferior.

The same holds true for the the food industry. In a southern Wisconsin cannery that a friend of mine manages they regularly put out cans of vegetables labeled as Libby's, Sure Fine, Food Club, Del Monte, Great Value, and several other brands, all from the same exact line with no changes to the contents whatsoever. Only the labels change. This is true no matter what the food product or packaging process. That's why when you read of a food recall it usually involves several different brands of the same product all coming from the same facility.

Those Keebler cookies...not really made by elves. You know better than to equate appliance badging with a guy who flat out says a somewhat known cue maker is hand building a cue when it is in fact an unbranded factory cue.

Read any car magazine article or newspaper test drive or review from the GM/Toyota JV era...it was common knowledge by anyone who cared even a little about cars. GM didn't run adds claiming they were hand built by Enzo Ferrari, they actually ran adds about the joint venture plant in CA.

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[HNTFSH]

Here you attempt to call an apple an orange.

 

[CLAUD]

If your main knock on Dean's action is that he sold a product under a name other than the actual manufacturer of that product you really don't have much of a leg to stand on, given that this has long been accepted as a fair business practice in most industries.

I am most familiar with the appliance industry so I will use that as my main example. Appliance companies re-market other manufacturers' products as their own all the time and it is completely accepted within the industry. For example Bosch builds some of their own appliances but also re-badges Frigidaire ranges and sells them as Bosch. Fisher & Paykel build many of their own laundry appliances, but they also re-badge GE dryers and sell them as Fisher & Paykel. Kenmore, the largest selling brand of appliances in the world, never built even one appliance. They have always bought from other manufacturers and had the makers label them as Kenmore. A few of these had feature combinations that were exclusive to Kenmore, but many more were identical copies of machines already being built by the manufacturers.

The automotive industry incorporates the same practice. The Chevy Nova in the 1980s was simply a re-badged Toyota Corolla. The Dodge Stealth was 100% a Mitsubishi 3000GT. The ford Courier was just a relabeled Mazda B2000. In each of these examples the actual manufacturer was building better products than were the rebranding companies, so the mere fact that a product is sold under a different name as the builder's doesn't mean the product is somehow inferior.

The same holds true for the the food industry. In a southern Wisconsin cannery that a friend of mine manages they regularly put out cans of vegetables labeled as Libby's, Sure Fine, Food Club, Del Monte, Great Value, and several other brands, all from the same exact line with no changes to the contents whatsoever. Only the labels change. This is true no matter what the food product or packaging process. That's why when you read of a food recall it usually involves several different brands of the same product all coming from the same facility.

Using this logic, then it is ok to have a purse made in China and put a Louis Viton label on it, have a street artist paint water lilies and sign it Monet. NO, it's not the same. There is a huge difference in the auto industry, the food industry, and saying a craftsman (cue builder) built something when he never touched it. It's basically the same as counterfeiting a purse or a painting or any number of other things.

 

[Straightpool_99]

If your main knock on Dean's action is that he sold a product under a name other than the actual manufacturer of that product you really don't have much of a leg to stand on, given that this has long been accepted as a fair business practice in most industries.

I am most familiar with the appliance industry so I will use that as my main example. Appliance companies re-market other manufacturers' products as their own all the time and it is completely accepted within the industry. For example Bosch builds some of their own appliances but also re-badges Frigidaire ranges and sells them as Bosch. Fisher & Paykel build many of their own laundry appliances, but they also re-badge GE dryers and sell them as Fisher & Paykel. Kenmore, the largest selling brand of appliances in the world, never built even one appliance. They have always bought from other manufacturers and had the makers label them as Kenmore. A few of these had feature combinations that were exclusive to Kenmore, but many more were identical copies of machines already being built by the manufacturers.

The automotive industry incorporates the same practice. The Chevy Nova in the 1980s was simply a re-badged Toyota Corolla. The Dodge Stealth was 100% a Mitsubishi 3000GT. The ford Courier was just a relabeled Mazda B2000. In each of these examples the actual manufacturer was building better products than were the rebranding companies, so the mere fact that a product is sold under a different name as the builder's doesn't mean the product is somehow inferior.

The same holds true for the the food industry. In a southern Wisconsin cannery that a friend of mine manages they regularly put out cans of vegetables labeled as Libby's, Sure Fine, Food Club, Del Monte, Great Value, and several other brands, all from the same exact line with no changes to the contents whatsoever. Only the labels change. This is true no matter what the food product or packaging process. That's why when you read of a food recall it usually involves several different brands of the same product all coming from the same facility.

This is not the same at all! For a custom cue, the value is in who made it and how. If someone carefully selects materials himself and makes it in a small shop with careful attention to detail, that is entirely different to a large industrial operation spewing out hundreds of identical cues, made entirely by machines and with very little human oversight. A Balabushka from the old builder is completely different from a modern one made by a huge factory in Japan or China!

A Mezz cue can be said to play as well as even expensive customs, because of the quality controls etc. It doesn't mean they have the same value or collectability. In Deans case he took the lowest priced manufacturer on US soil and tried to pass it off as a cue designed/built by a custom builder with a good reputation. You can't do that! He tried to pass off something as "hand made" (not literally, but small scale and individually built), when in fact it was a dime a dozen factory cue. If you can't see any wrong in that, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[measureman]

Seriously?? Don't remember 'rail-gate'?

I really never paid any attention to tables issues.
Do tell.

 

[penguin]

If your main knock on Dean's action is that he sold a product under a name other than the actual manufacturer of that product you really don't have much of a leg to stand on, given that this has long been accepted as a fair business practice in most industries.

You are talking about mass-produced products that have been white-labeled.

Dean marketed the Jackpot cues as being true custom cues made by Jack Potter.

 

[7stud]

I really never paid any attention to tables issues.
Do tell.

It went something like this:

1. Customer sent rails to RKC and made payment.
2. RKC kept money and rails.
3. Customer posted here asking for his rails back so that he could get his table back together.
4. RKC didn't respond.
5. Mechanic Jeremy offered Customer a free set of rails.
6. Forum members donated to Jeremy to help him defray the cost.
7. Customer got table back together.
8. RKC never heard from again.
9. Friends of RKC claimed that Customer found a better deal on a mechanic and wanted the rails and money back so that he could have the work done cheaper elsewhere. Another version was that Customer owed more money for the rail work and wouldn't pay for it, so RKC wouldn't send him his rails.

 

[9ballscorpion]

And even if he did lie to you, or steal from you, as long as he promised to do the right thing, it's totally absolved.

Yeah, lying, and deceiving is fine, just so you give a 100% money back guarantee, if not happy. That makes a lot of sense.

The thing that does not make much sense to me, is that from what I have read about the story, only 1 person asked for a refund, out of all the cues that were sold?

People paid $600(?) each for those cheap quality (in my opinion) cues, and only 1 person is to be known to have wanted a refund, and that was not even the same person who originally purchased the cue, but Dean gave the person a refund anyways.

Maybe it is just me, but I think that $600 is a lot of money, and for that kind of money, people should be able to get a high quality cue.

I do not have anything against Schmelke. They seem to make a good cue for the amount of money they charge for them, and it is nice that you can have them custom build it to whatever specs that you want. They are still a Production cue maker though, in my opinion, and they do not go up in value, or hold their value on the 2nd hand market, like a Libra cue has probably done.

The customers basically thought they were buying a cue that was made by the same cue maker who made (or had a partnership in) Libra cues, from my understanding, and what they got was a "No Logo" Schmelke, that was said to be a custom made cue, by Jack Potter of Libra cues.

I would be really upset if I were one of those buyers who were deceived.

Libra cues sure did look nice.

Libra cues (proficientbilliards.com)

 

[maha]

some might of thought it wasn't worth it to send them back. others by sending them back acknowledge that they were taken and that is kind of an admittance you were the sucker in the deal.
sometimes its best to just take your lumps and move on. paying double for a cheap cue isnt the end of the world. especially if you can justify it in your mind by saying it plays well so it was okay. to each his own.

 

[JC]

My post was an attempt at a joke, a poor one.

Your joke was most excellent, don't let the democrats lack of humor get you down.

 

[9ballscorpion]

You are talking about mass-produced products that have been white-labeled.

Dean marketed the Jackpot cues as being true custom cues made by Jack Potter.

That is true, and that is the exact wording he used to sell the cues.

 

[9ballscorpion]

If your main knock on Dean's action is that he sold a product under a name other than the actual manufacturer of that product you really don't have much of a leg to stand on, given that this has long been accepted as a fair business practice in most industries.

I am most familiar with the appliance industry so I will use that as my main example. Appliance companies re-market other manufacturers' products as their own all the time and it is completely accepted within the industry. For example Bosch builds some of their own appliances but also re-badges Frigidaire ranges and sells them as Bosch. Fisher & Paykel build many of their own laundry appliances, but they also re-badge GE dryers and sell them as Fisher & Paykel. Kenmore, the largest selling brand of appliances in the world, never built even one appliance. They have always bought from other manufacturers and had the makers label them as Kenmore. A few of these had feature combinations that were exclusive to Kenmore, but many more were identical copies of machines already being built by the manufacturers.

The automotive industry incorporates the same practice. The Chevy Nova in the 1980s was simply a re-badged Toyota Corolla. The Dodge Stealth was 100% a Mitsubishi 3000GT. The ford Courier was just a relabeled Mazda B2000. In each of these examples the actual manufacturer was building better products than were the rebranding companies, so the mere fact that a product is sold under a different name as the builder's doesn't mean the product is somehow inferior.

The same holds true for the the food industry. In a southern Wisconsin cannery that a friend of mine manages they regularly put out cans of vegetables labeled as Libby's, Sure Fine, Food Club, Del Monte, Great Value, and several other brands, all from the same exact line with no changes to the contents whatsoever. Only the labels change. This is true no matter what the food product or packaging process. That's why when you read of a food recall it usually involves several different brands of the same product all coming from the same facility.

I think what Dean did was far worse then what a lot of cue companies do. He sold "No Name / No logo / No Signature" Schmelke cues (that were 100% made by Schmelke) as Jack Potter customs, and made it very clear that Jack Potter was building the cues, in his ads.

Here, read the 1st very lines of this post. Here is the quote from Dean about the cues he was selling for $600 each "Jack still has some great shaft wood and plans to build about a dozen more".

(1) Jackpot Second Edition $600 with a bonus | AzBilliards Forums

Nothing but lies, and deception, in order to get cue sales.

I know Dean made many threads, but here is another one.

(1) Two jackpot cues available only | AzBilliards Forums

I think that what Dean did is very different then the stuff that you are talking about. And Two Wrongs does not make a right. I mean that just because other people are doing unethical business practices, does not make it okay for you or anyone else to do the same thing.

 

[ideologist]

Your joke was most excellent, don't let the democrats lack of humor get you down.

The joke was excellent, but it cut at your position.

Why would you blame Democrats when it is your team that is crying about these jokes?

You somehow continue finding a way to suckle up to Dean for what? Showing extremely poor ethical judgment?

Congratulations on somehow making this political

 

[Sunchaser]

I like Dean and I don't consider what happened with the Jackpot cues to be a "disaster". It was a "mey" blown all out of proportion by busybodies with no skin in the game. Would I conduct business like that? Never but I've seen it and I know how to steer clear of it. Hey I like RKC too and consider him a friend and he's shady squared compared to Dean.

Come by any time just give me a jingle ahead of time. I'm super easy to find.

Dang it stop that. Stop that right now. This whole thread is for remembering old Deano for his transgressions against humanity. Pool lives matter. Quit all the spooning and niceties. 12 Schmelkes. 400 dollar profit each. 4,800 Dollars total almost 5 grand. That qualifies as a class D felony...not quite a mey. Lie, make shit up, lie some more, promise the world, send out Schmelkes, get caught, deny, lie some more, something about a friends sick wife, declare no appologies. Has nothing to do with rebadging. Has something to do with honesty, integrity, value, getting a fair shake, and receiving what you pay for. Nuthuggers have blurred vision. Skin in the game? Its not a game. Its pulling a fast one. 20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400..."sucka" Dean giggles...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400...giggle giggle giggle...Dean typing..."might do another batch if Jack wants to and yall are happy"...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400..." Hey June couple of these guys are on to us what should I do? Tell em its for a sick friend. Oh ya...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400...money back if not happy...ha ha ha...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400...only 2 left get one of these amazing cues with special shafts from Jack that everyone loves so much...he he he...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400...I thought they were 600? Nah Im just counting the profit from each one. 20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400. How many is that? Crap. Gotta start over. 20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400....you cant make this sh.t up...call Schmelke...ha ha ha...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240...ya Schmelke I need another dozen cues...oh can you get me a discount for buying a dozen...1200? Great thanks...ya same place ...ya Jackpot...ya in care of good ole Dean...uh huh...yep...260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400...hey I gotta go someone wants a refund. Thanks again! 20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160...er, where was I..., 20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400. Dang. Paper cut. Only the ones who bought one can get mad. All the regular guys wont care and will stick up for me and hark back to some cool story or great time or some past deal with no photos...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400...great cues no apologies hit a ton and play lights out only 600...get yours now...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400...instant classic...
Ive got 2 Jackpots and 7 shafts and ones 60 inches and I love em and I tried it first and I didnt pay full price and I bought it from someone else who payed 600 and so Im happy and Dean Didnt do anything I love mine...as Deano continues the counting...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400...and counting...and counting...good ole Dean.






.

 

[9ballscorpion]

Dang it stop that. Stop that right now. This whole thread is for remembering old Deano for his transgressions against humanity. Pool lives matter. Quit all the spooning and niceties. 12 Schmelkes. 400 dollar profit each. 4,800 Dollars total almost 5 grand. That qualifies as a class D felony...not quite a mey. Lie, make shit up, lie some more, promise the world, send out Schmelkes, get caught, deny, lie some more, something about a friends sick wife, declare no appologies. Has nothing to do with rebadging. Has something to do with honesty, integrity, value, getting a fair shake, and receiving what you pay for. Nuthuggers have blurred vision. Skin in the game? Its not a game. Its pulling a fast one. 20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400..."sucka" Dean giggles...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400...giggle giggle giggle...Dean typing..."might do another batch if Jack wants to and yall are happy"...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400..." Hey June couple of these guys are on to us what should I do? Tell em its for a sick friend. Oh ya...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400...money back if not happy...ha ha ha...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400...only 2 left get one of these amazing cues with special shafts from Jack that everyone loves so much...he he he...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400...I thought they were 600? Nah Im just counting the profit from each one. 20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400. How many is that? Crap. Gotta start over. 20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400....you cant make this sh.t up...call Schmelke...ha ha ha...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240...ya Schmelke I need another dozen cues...oh can you get me a discount for buying a dozen...1200? Great thanks...ya same place ...ya Jackpot...ya in care of good ole Dean...uh huh...yep...260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400...hey I gotta go someone wants a refund. Thanks again! 20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160...er, where was I..., 20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400. Dang. Paper cut. Only the ones who bought one can get mad. All the regular guys wont care and will stick up for me and hark back to some cool story or great time or some past deal with no photos...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400...great cues no apologies hit a ton and play lights out only 600...get yours now...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400...instant classic...
Ive got 2 Jackpots and 7 shafts and ones 60 inches and I love em and I tried it first and I didnt pay full price and I bought it from someone else who payed 600 and so Im happy and Dean Didnt do anything I love mine...as Deano continues the counting...20 40 60 80 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300 320 340 360 380 400...and counting...and counting...good ole Dean.






.

Lol, I love that. That was great. Hilarious.

And yeah, I bet Dean got a nice wholesale discount for ordering in bulk.

I bet that none of the people who are defending Dean got deceived, and screwed out of their hard earned money.

But those who did seem to be happy with their Jackpot cues, so I guess that makes everything okay. Maybe to them, but when they sell their so called custom Jackpot, are they going to advertise it as a custom made cue, made by Jack Potter? I hope not.

It is all over, but I just hope that nobody else gets screwed over by these custom designed Schmelke cues, because there is no way to ID them, other then by those who really know cues.

 

[JC]

Congratulations on somehow making this political

It seemed like the next logical progression to a troll thread!