What happened to the cue market lately?

Sealegs50

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The thing I have noticed my entire time with cues is that everybody wants to make money. Everybody is playing an angle to make money on my cues except for me. Flippers want cues cheaper than even the dealers get so they can make a quick dollar undercutting the retail price. Worse yet they always have some stupid story or excuse about why they need it so cheap, as if I haven't heard a million of them already. The problem with the market isn't that cue makers need to work on their advertising. The problem with the market is that there are a thousand flippers vying for the same dollar, trying to out flip one another. Cue makers aren't responsible for brand building so you can make money off their name. If you want to b!tch that the market is slow, then take some responsibility on yourself to promote cues & recruit new buying base. Why should I, as the maker, carry the burden of not only my own career, but yours as a flipper as well? That is totally a quintessential pool player move. Get pissed off and whine, blaming somebody else because you couldn't pull off your hustle. You get stuck with a cue you never had any intention of keeping or playing with, only owned it for the purpose of flipping for profit, and now it's the cue maker's fault because nobody is buying it at your inflated price. That damned cue maker needs to work on his name recognition! Can't make this crap up.

Of course, I agree with Eric’s comments.

Another part of the equation I never could understand was that every new cuemaker who was trying to establish their name would put extraordinary amounts of work into building cues for a small group of collectors who would stash them away with their other 100-150 cues and that might be included in a group photo every 10 years or so. I could never understand how having their cues kept hiding in those collections helped them become established as cuemakers.

There are a few people who always had access to the more elite group of cuemakers and the rest of us who just wanted a player had to pay mark-ups to the flippers, which I refuse to do. I don’t mind a small amount of profit and I understand the laws of supply and demand. But many flippers expect to be paid as much as the cuemaker. I would have been happy to pay the cuemaker the marked-up price to have a cue made to my specs, but I could never get on those lists.

When I was relatively new to hanging around real pool halls, the best players always had the best cues. In CA, that was Szamboti, Gina, Tad, Joss West, et al. Those were the days that left a lasting impression on me. Today, I almost never see anybody playing with cues from those cuemakers or other more recently established names. From my perspective, those legendary cuemakers started by making the best playing cues. Those cues were legendary because they were players and the workmanship added to the mystique. There does not seem to be as much interest by cuemakers for getting their cues into the hands of players who would do their advertising in the field.

For a long time, the situation was hard to understand and frustrating. It still is, but I don’t want those cues any longer. At 65 years of age, I was finally able to have a cuemaker include me as a future customer. Playing pool is my favorite pastime. I would have bought more cues if I had access during the years I could afford them.
 

AK-Stick

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For me a cue is a tool granted I like quality but change of income has affected what I can spend.
 

Woofresh

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes the "dealers" ruined the market... Cues in there are way too high

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Type79

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is often met with surprise, but the cues I have purchased from dealers have been more accurately and honestly priced that those that were offered by private sellers, and original owners.

Yes the "dealers" ruined the market... Cues in there are way too high

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Woofresh

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is often met with surprise, but the cues I have purchased from dealers have been more accurately and honestly priced that those that were offered by private sellers, and original owners.
I'm glad you had great experiences.... Take a look at the market and how many have been bumped/relisted... There are some cues with bumps many pages long.... Guess what... You gotta drop the price...

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JasBy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think a big driving force in the market is there are too many free options to sell cues. (not just speaking about here on AZ)

If someone with a cue to sell doesn't have to pay anything to list it, or even better, to sell it (a la Facebook) then there is no impetus to reduce the price to sell or even make the sale at all. EBay offers hundreds if not thousands of free listings to most customers, so someone can just keep relisting the same overpriced cues hoping for a sucker to come along and pay too much. If they were shelling out a couple bucks every time they listed it, you can bet the prices would come down to a level people were willing to pay.

I don't really thinks this applies as much to the high-end customs as much as the guys listing Mali cues for $200-250 each and 'Rare Limited-Edition Budweiser" cues. If you are a new league player and you see cues like this at these prices, of course you are going to go the production cue route.
 

Type79

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Take a look at the market and how many have been bumped/relisted... There are some cues with bumps many pages long.... Guess what... You gotta drop the price...

Aside from the fact that the market is oversaturated, sales of anything are a bit more complicated than just price.

In some cases, the cue is priced correctly, but there no buyers at a given moment in time. Generally speaking, high-end cues are not flipped in a matter of weeks, or even months.
 

Type79

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think a big driving force in the market is there are too many free options to sell cues.

I was thinking about this just the other day but as it applies to cuemakers.

The internet allows any cuemaker starting-out to market cues, frequent forums for name recognition, build a website or Facebook page, and create an illusion of knowledge, experience, quality product, and reliability.

Think about all of the names that have soared like a rocket, amassed followers, and crashed.

Most had no overhead other than some inexpensive tools/machines, zero marketing expenses, and no trail in the print media.

Cuemaking is the only area I am aware in which someone who owns a machine and has little experience and/or history in business, represents himself as a professional.

That's because they are not required to have any skin in the game beyond some basic costs.
 

Woofresh

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Aside from the fact that the market is oversaturated, sales of anything are a bit more complicated than just price.

In some cases, the cue is priced correctly, but there no buyers at a given moment in time. Generally speaking, high-end cues are not flipped in a matter of weeks, or even months.
Yes ... Some cases that's true.... But name any specifics and you can argue almost any point... Im talking about the general overall feeling of the market... Which is clear that not much is moving there.... And thus the reason this post was made... The majority of the cues in the market are not "priced to move" like many of them state...



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Type79

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes ... Some cases that's true.... But name any specifics and you can argue almost any point... Im talking about the general overall feeling of the market... Which is clear that not much is moving there.... And thus the reason this post was made... The majority of the cues in the market are not "priced to move" like many of them state...

There just aren't enough players and not enough money in the billiards world. IMO, if prices were cut by 50%, there would still be an overabundance of cues for sale.

Wait! That already happened!
 

Puhlshooter

Registered
The internet and ebay have a lot to do with driving up or down the market on collectible items. There are currently 9 Runde cues on there from $1200 - $5500. Most of them been on there for months and I'm sure there are other cues highly priced with a perpetual listing. This conveys to a potential buyer although unique to one another they don't appear to be as rare as they are being told. It also sends a message that nobody is willing to pay that kinda of money for a cue. Couple that with the fact that some have advertised they have had many cues from a maker translates into buying them mark up for profit , second hand although "new" and over priced. I think there is apprehension with some buyers that what they are getting is original as manufactured with the cue and not a mix match of other cue shafts or the like.

In some cases person who wants a custom cue may be able to buy one of the cues advertised but wants one direct from the maker made to his liking which he has to wait an extended period for or settles for something else that satisfies him and is more reasonably priced. These people may never own another cue or change from their now regular player which is an opportunity lost in the market.

Could the reason most cue makers don't have slots or time for others is the so called dealer / flipper "friend" /collector in an effort to control the market ordering a bunch of cues in a row because of their relationship with certain makers and then turning them for a profit.

Most of these guys have enjoyed many cues and guys that only want one made to their liking can't get one because the maker is clogged with orders from dealer/flipper "friends" who want to profit from that relationship on others Craftsmanship. They are not interested in hanging on to a cue any longer than it takes them to unpack it.

The less people buy from these guys the more availability there will be in the cue makers schedule for guys who want a custom cue and are willing to pay just as much to get a cue direct from the maker made to their specs.

How is it considered new when it's shipped to a dealer / flipper friend first who opens it up may be tries it out with another shaft and then markets it as new, rare, made to the specs of what the dealer/flipper think will sell.

There are just a lot of selliers wanting close to 2K driving prospective buyere to lower end but quality non custom cues.
 

CuesDirectly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have one word that has caused problems, I don't believe anyone has mentioned it. They take people's disposable income like no others in society.

The one word is

Government.

When they take too much, others suffer.
 

jazznpool

Superior Cues--Unchalked!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Cue sales are always down over the summer months here in USA. The decline begins after SBE. Having said that, well made cues from desirable makers that are unchalked or in great condition and priced sensibly continue to sell no matter what time of the year it is. There is no doubt though that there are fewer buyers in the cue market over the summer.
 

Mikey Town

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cue sales are always down over the summer months here in USA. The decline begins after SBE. Having said that, well made cues from desirable makers that are unchalked or in great condition and priced sensibly continue to sell no matter what time of the year it is. There is no doubt though that there are fewer buyers in the cue market over the summer.

Could it be the simple fact that people tend to spend more time outside during the summer?

More time outside = Less time playing pool = Not as much desire for pool related equipment.

Golf equipment sales tend to slow down a bit in the winter... it's a simple thought, and it may not apply to the high-end collector market, but it makes sense.
 

j2pac

Marital Slow Learner.
Staff member
Moderator
Gold Member
Silver Member
It's too much money for the average working stiff there are other priorities in life and family, $500 to $1000 is all i would pay for a cue but that's only my opinion.

Agreed. There are a couple of makers that interest me, but...I have never bought a cue with the intention of "flipping," so my opinion is somewhat limited to the folks in my particular "lane." All of the cues that I have owned, I purchased with the intention of playing. The only time/s I've let them go, was when I just wanted to shoot with something different. As for the collector/dealer market, hard to pin down. My guess would be that people are starting to shift their priorities, and with the volatility of most markets these days, folks just aren't as likely to drop large sums of hard cash on a high end pool cue. JMO. :cool:
j2
 

j2pac

Marital Slow Learner.
Staff member
Moderator
Gold Member
Silver Member
Cue sales are always down over the summer months here in USA. The decline begins after SBE. Having said that, well made cues from desirable makers that are unchalked or in great condition and priced sensibly continue to sell no matter what time of the year it is. There is no doubt though that there are fewer buyers in the cue market over the summer.

This as well.../\ :cool:
 
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