What is a Black Boar?

As far as confirming the facts that you stated, I have no idea what you are refering to,[/QUOTE]

You don't have any idea, just regurgitating what you have been spoon fed. Those first cues don't get built without Bill and Scruggs, and the shop they were made in, which was not in the basement with the CNC. Inlays might have been done there, but nothing else. Other maker's cues were being inlaid somewhere else, but you have to have a shop to build a cue.

Those cues were promoted by Scruggs and Bill, which is why the Players ( not actual players as you seem to think, but world class cue collectors) took time to look at the cues. The photo of Scruggs and Bill shaking hands in front of the B/B banner "Black Boar by Tim Scruggs" should clue you in that the cues were part of a deal that was possible only because of those two master cue makers.

1mcdanielscruggs.jpg
 
Hangemhigh-

hangemhigh said:
As far as confirming the facts that you stated, I have no idea what you are refering to,
Click to expand...

You don't have any idea, just regurgitating what you have been spoon fed. Those first cues don't get built without Bill and Scruggs, and the shop they were made in, which was not in the basement with the CNC. Inlays might have been done there, but nothing else. Other maker's cues were being inlaid somewhere else, but you have to have a shop to build a cue.

Those cues were promoted by Scruggs and Bill, which is why the Players ( not actual players as you seem to think, but world class cue collectors) took time to look at the cues. The photo of Scruggs and Bill shaking hands in front of the B/B banner "Black Boar by Tim Scruggs" should clue you in that the cues were part of a deal that was possible only because of those two master cue makers.

1mcdanielscruggs.jpg
[/QUOTE]
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I have been around Tony's shop almost daily for 15 years, I am not guessing or making things up.
And, your photograph is one that was taken by Tony---- AND I POSTED IT ON MY WEBSITE. That is where you copied it from, so don't try to act like you have some inside info.
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Your statement about ONLY the first 10 cues not being built without Tim's and mcdaniels involvement is true---I have never disputed that the first 10 cues came from mcdaniel. They were finished at Tims shop, by Tony and using Tony jr's CNC machine. So all mcdaniel did was provide the blanks according to Tony's specs. After that first go around with mcdaniel and his blanks -Tony has never tried to copy or reproduce mcdaniels blanks. Tony's cues are built from a one piece core(thats just one difference, there are many more) and that is nothing like mcdaniels cues. If you can recall, from the time Tony sold those first 10 cues he experimented in a new shop in College Park with new and different and better methods for building a cue.
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As far as the first cues being promoted by Scruggs and Bill- you have gotten some wrong info. Tony ordered and paid for the booth at the trade show, Tony created the logo and banner and gave respect to Tim on the banner.
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It's just getting worse and worse everytime you grasp for some straw of hope, YOU should just stop trying to rewrite history . You are speaking in ambiguious terms and not quoting any facts, and I might add batting way below the Mendoza line!
 
I have been around Tony's shop almost daily for 15 years, I am not guessing or making things up.
And, your photograph is one that was taken by Tony---- AND I POSTED IT ON MY WEBSITE. That is where you copied it from, so don't try to act like you have some inside info.
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Your statement about ONLY the first 10 cues not being built without Tim's and mcdaniels involvement is true---I have never disputed that the first 10 cues came from mcdaniel. They were finished at Tims shop, by Tony and using Tony jr's CNC machine. So all mcdaniel did was provide the blanks according to Tony's specs. After that first go around with mcdaniel and his blanks -Tony has never tried to copy or reproduce mcdaniels blanks. Tony's cues are built from a one piece core(thats just one difference, there are many more) and that is nothing like mcdaniels cues. If you can recall, from the time Tony sold those first 10 cues he experimented in a new shop in College Park with new and different and better methods for building a cue.
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As far as the first cues being promoted by Scruggs and Bill- you have gotten some wrong info. Tony ordered and paid for the booth at the trade show, Tony created the logo and banner and gave respect to Tim on the banner.
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It's just getting worse and worse everytime you grasp for some straw of hope, YOU should just stop trying to rewrite history . You are speaking in ambiguious terms and not quoting any facts, and I might add batting way below the Mendoza line![/COLOR][/QUOTE]

No one is disputing Tony's ability/talents as a cuemaker. They are beautiful and in the top 10 of cuemakers as far as playability.

But, you said that McDaniels made the first 10 blanks and Tony finished them in Tim's shop w/ the assistance of his son and CNC. My question is....Tony ran a billiard supply business. How would he even have the skillsets required to:

1. Manufacture the other parts of the cue. (Shafts, handle, butt, etc)
2. Properly assemble them. (This knowledge is an art in itself)
3. Finish/wrap the cue.
4. Inlay the cue. Ok, so he had a CNC....but that doesn't give the knowledge required to inlay a cue without some assistance.

What I'm saying is, you come across as if Tony just learned the art of cuemaking by osmosis...and that he and Tim were peers in cuemaking at that time, sharing techniques, etc. BUT, Tony was not a full cuemaker at that time? Correct?

Again, I'm just trying to get enlightened here because some of your statements don't convey as being very logical.
 
breakshot said:
You don't have any idea, just regurgitating what you have been spoon fed. Those first cues don't get built without Bill and Scruggs, and the shop they were made in, which was not in the basement with the CNC. Inlays might have been done there, but nothing else. Other maker's cues were being inlaid somewhere else, but you have to have a shop to build a cue.

Those cues were promoted by Scruggs and Bill, which is why the Players ( not actual players as you seem to think, but world class cue collectors) took time to look at the cues. The photo of Scruggs and Bill shaking hands in front of the B/B banner "Black Boar by Tim Scruggs" should clue you in that the cues were part of a deal that was possible only because of those two master cue makers.

1mcdanielscruggs.jpg
Click to expand...
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I have been around Tony's shop almost daily for 15 years, I am not guessing or making things up.
And, your photograph is one that was taken by Tony---- AND I POSTED IT ON MY WEBSITE. That is where you copied it from, so don't try to act like you have some inside info.

15 years ago is not the era we are talking about, you are going by what you were told, I am going by what I witnessed. That pic came from your website, never said it didn't. I ain't acting about inside info, I'm schooling you with that inside information.


Your statement about ONLY the first 10 cues not being built without Tim's and mcdaniels involvement is true---I have never disputed that the first 10 cues came from mcdaniel. They were finished at Tims shop, by Tony and using Tony jr's CNC machine. So all mcdaniel did was provide the blanks according to Tony's specs. After that first go around with mcdaniel and his blanks -Tony has never tried to copy or reproduce mcdaniels blanks. Tony's cues are built from a one piece core(thats just one difference, there are many more) and that is nothing like mcdaniels cues. If you can recall, from the time Tony sold those first 10 cues he experimented in a new shop in College Park with new and different and better methods for building a cue.

He took delivery of more than 10 cues, and relied on Bill to provide him with the highest quality blanks that money couldn't buy. Fact is, If it was not for Bill and Scruggs partnership, he would have never got them. Why do you think he cut up those other cues ? Why do you think things changed and he had to find somewhere else to build his cues? He was part of a PARTNERSHIP, and the only way out was to go it on his own.

As far as the first cues being promoted by Scruggs and Bill- you have gotten some wrong info. Tony ordered and paid for the booth at the trade show, Tony created the logo and banner and gave respect to Tim on the banner.

It doesn't matter if he bought every booth at the trade show, Bill and Scruggs steered Lucky to Tony and his cues. They did so because they had a vested interest in them being successful. This is another example of two master cue makers helping someone with no exposure to the world of HIGH END cue making. He put Scruggs name on that banner because he was part of Scruggs shop, and DE facto part of a partnership, even if he didn't know it at the time.

It's just getting worse and worse everytime you grasp for some straw of hope, YOU should just stop trying to rewrite history . You are speaking in ambiguious terms and not quoting any facts, and I might add batting way below the Mendoza line![/QUOTE]

You talk like you know what went on, you were not there, you have no idea of the deal between them. You first said he didn't work for Scruggs, then backtracked. You first said there was only 10 blanks ordered from Bill, then backtracked, You backtracked this time by admitting he built the cues in Scruggs shop. You had to after I told you what really went down. You're in a bad spot, because you only know what you have been told. Being there and telling it like it was , that's where the rubber meets the road.


Fact is, there is a lot you will never be privy to, and you will always be in the dark. You can attribute his success to an order of T-shirts, that will never change the facts you have learned the past week here, in the real world. I could go farther, open more of the proverbial "can of Worms', but it ends here, with your revisionist history laid to rest. They say a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still. You are the man, I have nothing else for you.
 
1. Manufacture the other parts of the cue. (Shafts, handle, butt, etc)

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-The cue came from Mcdaniel as a blank requiring minimal work, and they were finished in Tim's shop. Tony built every thing on those blanks except the linen wrap, which he recalls that Tim did those.
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2. Properly assemble them. (This knowledge is an art in itself)
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-They came as blanks, I'm not saying that Tony was a accomplished self made cuemaker. far from it. He had years of experience with repairs on cues and shafts of varying degrees he already had a Clausing lathe and had been using it for years doing the repairs, and over the years he learned alot of information from numerous cuemakers, including Tim and Mike
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3. Finish/wrap the cue.
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-Tony had experience with leather wraps, but Tim did all the linen wraps, Tony believes. As for finishing the cue, Tony had been refinishing cues at his billiard supply for years prior and he had alot of pratice and experience in finishing cues when he was helping Tim and Mike finish those 79 cues
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4. Inlay the cue. Ok, so he had a CNC....but that doesn't give the knowledge required to inlay a cue without some assistance.
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-Tony jr had months of time to play with how to cut the inlays and pockets. and the inlays were very basic, all the veneers were already the points built be Mcdaniel
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I'm schooling you with that inside information.
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-You have not provided information, you have made accusations and insuations, You are the one trying to re write history.
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He took delivery of more than 10 cues,
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-I never disputed this, he cut up the last 10 because Bill wanted to renegotiate their agreement, he wanted to Control the Black Boar name.
Why do you think Tony never showed up at the meeting with mcdaniel.
and the big question------If mcdaniel was so instrumental in everything that was Black Boar, why didn't he try to continue making the cues?-
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-It doesn't matter if he bought every booth at the trade show, Bill and Scruggs steered Lucky to Tony and his cues. They did so because they had a vested interest in them being successful. This is another example of two master cue makers helping someone with no exposure to the world of HIGH END cue making.
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-This is where your timeline goes VERY wrong:
the trade show with Tim and Bill was in 1988
Lucky first started buying high end 8 point cues from Tony in 2003

I am very tired of having this discussion with you, I have provided numerous facts and dates as evidence in disputing your claims. You are a member of this forum who enjoys trying to belittle people, I have seen you do it numerous times over the years. I am sorry for your unhappiness.
 
breakshot said:
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-This is where your timeline goes VERY wrong:
the trade show with Tim and Bill was in 1988
Lucky first started buying high end 8 point cues from Tony in 2003
Click to expand...

I REALLY DON'T WANT PART OF THIS PISSING MATCH, NOR DO I REALLY CARE HOW IT ALL WENT DOWN, BUT ARE YOU SAYING THAT LUCKY DDIN'T BUY FROM BLACK BOAR UNTIL 2003?

Marcus
 
some of these are pretty fancy, there is one he is currently building that has quite a few ivory inlays in the forearm
Click to expand...
[/

That one would be mine :grin::grin:
 
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FAST_N_LOOSE said:
I REALLY DON'T WANT PART OF THIS PISSING MATCH, NOR DO I REALLY CARE HOW IT ALL WENT DOWN, BUT ARE YOU SAYING THAT LUCKY DDIN'T BUY FROM BLACK BOAR UNTIL 2003?

Marcus
Click to expand...

Yes, 2003 -This was when Lucky and Tony worked out their agreement (I'm going off memory but I think that is the right timeline) --- Lucky wanted everything that Tony could produce. They actually ran into each other in Valley Forge and Lucky was very intrested in Bb because he had put on a test of high end cues, (where he blindfolded a Japanese pro player and let them shoot with several cues and the player noticed a distinct difference in how BB cues feel)- I'm paraphrasing because I dont remember the exact words, but after that Lucky wanted all of Tony's cues. That relationship went on for several years with Lucky and then I had the same relationship with Tony for several years also.
 
breakshot said:
Yes, 2003 -This was when Lucky and Tony worked out their agreement (I'm going off memory but I think that is the right timeline) --- Lucky wanted everything that Tony could produce. They actually ran into each other in Valley Forge and Lucky was very intrested in Bb because he had put on a test of high end cues, (where he blindfolded a Japanese pro player and let them shoot with several cues and the player noticed a distinct difference in how BB cues feel)- I'm paraphrasing because I dont remember the exact words, but after that Lucky wanted all of Tony's cues. That relationship went on for several years with Lucky and then I had the same relationship with Tony for several years also.
Click to expand...

THANKS FOR THE REPLY CRAIG, I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THEY WERE DOING BUSINESS WELL BEFORE THAT TIME.

THANKS AGAIN,

Marcus
 
-You have not provided information, you have made accusations and insuations, You are the one trying to re write history.I have given you enough for you to change your story 3 different times.


-I never disputed this, he cut up the last 10 because Bill wanted to renegotiate their agreement, he wanted to Control the Black Boar name.
Why do you think Tony never showed up at the meeting with mcdaniel.
and the big question------If mcdaniel was so instrumental in everything that was Black Boar, why didn't he try to continue making the cues?-
-Tony had no say in the negotiations, it was between the two partners. Once he decided to leave, what he did was of no consequence to the partnership.


-This is where your timeline goes VERY wrong:
the trade show with Tim and Bill was in 1988
Lucky first started buying high end 8 point cues from Tony in 2003

You are correct, I was wrong. I should have said CT, not Lucky. Regardless, without Bill and Scruggs, none of it happens.

I am very tired of having this discussion with you, I have provided numerous facts and dates as evidence in disputing your claims. You are a member of this forum who enjoys trying to belittle people, I have seen you do it numerous times over the years. I am sorry for your unhappiness.[/QUOTE]

That Baseball reference must have really felt disparaging to you, sorry you took it so hard. Bill and Scruggs gave Tony his start, the truth should not be belittling to anyone.
 
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