What is a Shortstop?

Karen and Allison are both fabulous players. It's too bad we'll never get to see either one play Jean!

Cueman, good point about the slower cloth, how soon we forget.....and what a difference that can make! Very true that Jean will forever be the standard by which all other women players are measured. She will always have that to add to her accomplishments.

Gremlin, thanks -- but maybe that should be a glass of Shiraz!!! :)
 
Gremlin said:
Hemi,

I owe you one for the 710 thingy! LOL Here is Keith's post about the tournament in Binghamton NY:

10-16-2003, 10:48 PM
Keith McCready
Pro Player Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 296
vCash: 500

Re: Jean Balukas

Quote:
Originally posted by b-jammin
I believe it was the late eighties when Jean quit the tour due to an argument during a match on T.V. With Robin Bell (Dodson now).


When Jeannie hit the pool world by storm, she was known as a straight-pool player, running 125 balls as a teenager. As she learned 9-ball, she got better and better, more aggressive with her shots, hitting balls with authority and moved the cue-ball exactly where she wanted. She could break balls better than most men.

There was a tournament, I believe it was, in 1984 in Binghamton. I was the defending champion from the year before. Jeannie drew me, Buddy Hall, and Mizerak, and beat all three of us in our matches. I was 3 and 0 in the pool tournament and was fixing to play her. Racing to 9, the lines were that Jeannie wouldn't 6, and I bet 4 dimes on myself. She won the lag, and then she opened up and ran five racks on me, ended up beating me 9 to 5. Winning the match in the tournament was worth $3,000 for that round.

When I was walking down the hall and Buddy had to play her next, I made a couple of wise cracks to Buddy and he didn't want to hear it because he could not take Jeannie lightly either. Buddy and I both recognized that it was serious business. Jeannie got up there and left Buddy in the chair from the start of the game, had Buddy Hall 7 to 2 going to 9, ended up beating Buddy 9 to 2. That same night, she drilled Mizerak.

Big crowd, screaming and yelling after every shot she made. A real crowd-pleaser if there ever was one, and it was the greatest exhibition of pool by a woman I have ever seen, bar none.
__________________
Earthquake

Attached photo of Jean for you

Cheers,

Gremlin
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Thanks for the photo, GreenGuy. And for the trip down that wonderful lane. Yea, Jeanie was and is my champion. Heart? No one had more. Focus? No one had more. Allison, Karen and on occasion, Jeanette pocket balls as well as Jean did. The thing that made Jean the best, IMHO, was her stroke. She stroked the cue ball like a top playing man, firm, power stroking the ball, when needed, to get to the next place she had to be. Power stroke with confidence and be damned if the cue ball didn't get there too. 3 rail 4 rail and even 5 rail position, if it was required. And the real reason she was the best, her awesome break. Never has a woman broken the balls with more authority.

You can tell and tell people who have never seen her play and unless you can find some old ESPN tapes of her breaking the balls, they will not see.

P.S. Yea, GG, the 710 thingy is a classic too.
 
Gremlin said:
sjm, Jean's WPBA Titles are 72 Championships 36 9-ball and 36 14.1. Heaven and Jean are the only one who knows how many titles she has really won. My favorite match when I was a kid and watch the ladies was Jean and Robin Bell Dodson. I to this day am still in love with Jean and Robin.

For runmout as you may know the Joss tour regulars know I am a fan and friend of Karen Corr here is the post from one of her tournaments this year.
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Great post, Gremlin. Jean's prolific list of accomplishments speaks for itself. I'd bet I saw her play live in her prime over 50 times, including seeing her play in nine world straight pool championship events. I've known Jean personally since the mid-1970's.

Jean's great record is enhanced by her record against men, but that record is no better than Karen Corr's. Jean managed to beat the great ones from time to time, but was clearly not on their level. Irving Crane, who was a very close friend of mine, reckoned she played better than all but thirty men back then. While Karen wouldn't rank nearly as high as that against today's men, it's because the talent pool in men's pool is far deeper.

It sometimes seems that you and I are the only flagbearers on the forum for ensuring that Karen gets her proper due, so we best stay the course.
 
Hey SJM,

Why would you say you and the green guy are Karen's only flagbearers? Unlike most posters here, I've had the pleasure both of watching and competing against Karen on 4 1/2" Diamond Pro's. She doesn't have the devastating break. She doesn't have the great sense of playing lock-up safeties. She kicks well, plays great position and if you don't pay attention, she'll kick your butt. I still like Jeanette's game. A round robin event I would pay to see is Karen, Jeanette, Allison and Jean Balukas play off for some real cash and winner really takes all. I would guess that lots of us here at AZ would also. How about it ladies?
 
cardiac kid said:
Hey SJM,

Why would you say you and the green guy are Karen's only flagbearers? Unlike most posters here, I've had the pleasure both of watching and competing against Karen on 4 1/2" Diamond Pro's. She doesn't have the devastating break. She doesn't have the great sense of playing lock-up safeties. She kicks well, plays great position and if you don't pay attention, she'll kick your butt. I still like Jeanette's game. A round robin event I would pay to see is Karen, Jeanette, Allison and Jean Balukas play off for some real cash and winner really takes all. I would guess that lots of us here at AZ would also. How about it ladies?
Click to expand...

Count me in on the PAY-PER-VIEW, Kid. To quote Apollo Creed, "Sounds like a damn Monster Movie".
 
cardiac kid said:
Hey SJM,

Why would you say you and the green guy are Karen's only flagbearers? Unlike most posters here, I've had the pleasure both of watching and competing against Karen on 4 1/2" Diamond Pro's. She doesn't have the devastating break. She doesn't have the great sense of playing lock-up safeties. She kicks well, plays great position and if you don't pay attention, she'll kick your butt. I still like Jeanette's game. A round robin event I would pay to see is Karen, Jeanette, Allison and Jean Balukas play off for some real cash and winner really takes all. I would guess that lots of us here at AZ would also. How about it ladies?
Click to expand...

You're right, CK, but, though we're not the only ones, I suspect me and Gremlin are Karen's most frquent flagbearers.

By the way, I happen to think Karen plays excellent safeties, perhaps not on a par with the very best men, but better than anyone that's ever competed on the WPBA tour.

Your proposed round robin would make for a great event. Those that feel Jean would never come out of retirement are mistaken, but I think it would take a pretty big payday for her to get her back.

Just in case that round robin never happens, though, a "special" four player tournament that nearly always involves Jeanette, Allison, and Karen, and one other player, is the Women's Challenge of Champions at Mohegan Sun, generally played in November. I go every year, and highly recommend it.
 
Maybe there should be a "Color of Money" for the women, something like the race-to-120 that Earl and Efren played? Surely somebody with deep pockets would be interested in putting up $100,000 to see who the best lady pro is!! :)
 
hemicudas said:
Thanks for the photo, GreenGuy. And for the trip down that wonderful lane. Yea, Jeanie was and is my champion. Heart? No one had more. Focus? No one had more. Allison, Karen and on occasion, Jeanette pocket balls as well as Jean did. The thing that made Jean the best, IMHO, was her stroke. She stroked the cue ball like a top playing man, firm, power stroking the ball, when needed, to get to the next place she had to be. Power stroke with confidence and be damned if the cue ball didn't get there too. 3 rail 4 rail and even 5 rail position, if it was required. And the real reason she was the best, her awesome break. Never has a woman broken the balls with more authority.

You can tell and tell people who have never seen her play and unless you can find some old ESPN tapes of her breaking the balls, they will not see.

P.S. Yea, GG, the 710 thingy is a classic too.
Click to expand...

Something else about Jean than not many people may know, was in 1975, at the age of 16, she was invited to compete the Women Superstars on ABC Sports. She finished second among the top women athletes of the era and received a check for $15,350.00. In 1977 she won nearly $30,000 (second) and 1978 over $6,000 (fourth). In addition to all this she also had a 45 point game in basketball and rolled a 629 series in bowling. I got this information from her autobiography published in 1980. A mint condition, first edition I found tucked away in a used bookstore for $8.00.
 
lunchmoney said:
Something else about Jean than not many people may know, was in 1975, at the age of 16, she was invited to compete the Women Superstars on ABC Sports.
Click to expand...

Quite right. For you and others who'd like to know more about Jean, may I recommend a visit to Hall of Fame Billiards in Brooklyn NY, the room owned by the Balukas family. As you enter, on the left, there is a large photo gallery with all sorts of interesting pictures of Jean, including one of her competing in the Superstars."
 
sjm said:
Quite right. For you and others who'd like to know more about Jean, may I recommend a visit to Hall of Fame Billiards in Brooklyn NY, the room owned by the Balukas family. As you enter, on the left, there is a large photo gallery with all sorts of interesting pictures of Jean, including one of her competing in the Superstars."
Click to expand...


Hey SJM,

If anyone is interested in finding out how Jean's playing, you can go to Hall of Fame Billiards, on Ovington, in Brooklyn NY and play in the open tourney on the last Thursday of each month. She usually plays and I can tell you from personal experience, she is still playing at a high level. She still has that "Archer" break in 9 ball.


Eric
 
cueman said:
But the ladies got rid of her and I predict she will never give any of them the satisfaction of beating her once her game goes down hill. She proved she was the best and all other ladies will always be know as the "is she as good as Jean was". She is getting a bit of revenge now by making them remain in her shadow.
Click to expand...



I must have missed something WAY BACK WHEN..... WHat do you mean by this? "the ladies got rid of her"???

I played in a tournament with Jean in 1989 or '90 and I was under the impression at the time that she was just getting back into her game after some serious health problems. :( Never heard anything after that time.

very curious,

Phyllis Gumphrey
 
Eric. said:
Hey SJM,

If anyone is interested in finding out how Jean's playing, you can go to Hall of Fame Billiards, on Ovington, in Brooklyn NY and play in the open tourney on the last Thursday of each month. She usually plays and I can tell you from personal experience, she is still playing at a high level. She still has that "Archer" break in 9 ball.


Eric
Click to expand...

Yes, Eric, I've played in that mini-tourney numeorus times, and have won it a few times, as well. I've even had the thrill of beating Jean in the finals. Love the format, winner side matches are a race to five and loser side matches are a race to three. Double elimination with a sixteen player field takes just over three hours!

As you said, this was always an open tournament, but it has very recently been changed to a handicap event, where the stronger players give ball spots to the weaker players. As long as they're in town, Jean and Gerda nearly always play. They have the mini-tourney more than once a month now, but you'd have to call the room to get the details.

Finally, I'd agree that Jean still breaks the balls better than anyone playing the WPBA tour. Though she hardly ever plays, Jean still plays at least Helena Thornfeldt speed.
 
Phylbert57 said:
I must have missed something WAY BACK WHEN..... WHat do you mean by this? "the ladies got rid of her"???

I played in a tournament with Jean in 1989 or '90 and I was under the impression at the time that she was just getting back into her game after some serious health problems. :( Never heard anything after that time.

very curious,

Phyllis Gumphrey
Click to expand...
The Pro Ladies hit her with a fine for being a little mouthy at a tournament and she refused to pay it. They then banned her from playing until such time as she paid. She refused and was barred. They lifted the ban after 10 or so years of locking her out, but she has not shown much interest in playing again. They locked her out in her prime and my guess is she won't come back in less than prime form.
 
cueman said:
The Pro Ladies hit her with a fine for being a little mouthy at a tournament and she refused to pay it. They then banned her from playing until such time as she paid. She refused and was barred. They lifted the ban after 10 or so years of locking her out, but she has not shown much interest in playing again. They locked her out in her prime and my guess is she won't come back in less than prime form.
Click to expand...



Thank you for telling me that. Not knowing all about it, I can't really say anything except it seems like bad form all around. :rolleyes:

Thanks again,

Phyllis Gumphrey
 
"shortstop: A second-rank player who will beat most or all of the local room players but who will need weight from a touring pro."

is that a "pro" as in a top 20 pro, or someone like an "open player"?? i assume a "touring pro" means a top 20 player. and if that is so, then it sounds like a shortstop is just an open player.

what is someone like frankie hernandez?
 
I can't speak for whoever left that definition, but I would say there are a lot of players below top 20 who are real pro's in playing level. If we are talking about tournament playing, the shortstop would be the player that gets in the lower money sometimes if he plays in the tougher open tournaments like the UPA, but has almost no hope of winning one. These are the common road players that have to run the road gambling because the locals won't give them any action without asking for tremendous weight and they can't make much money playing the pro tours. These are the road players that show up at smaller open tournaments like Southest, Viking and Joss tours and do fairly well in those and gamble on the side. Often they don't win those tournaments either as a couple of real pros usually play, but the field is not loaded with top pros like the UPA events are, so they finish pretty high. Why they call them "shortstops" can be argued forever, but I sincerely believe this is the speed player that was being described when I first heard the term used to describe some players in the 80's.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
Last edited:
A shortstop is -

THIS IS MY 1ST POSTING - HOPE I'M DOING IT RIGHT!
A Shortstop is a player who goes on the "Road" with a Top Player. He plays almost all players who come up, until he runs into a better player. Then the Top Player takes over. He is also a player who is good enough to make a buck at home - but not good enough to show a priofit on the road by himself.
 
OldHasBeen said:
THIS IS MY 1ST POSTING - HOPE I'M DOING IT RIGHT!
A Shortstop is a player who goes on the "Road" with a Top Player. He plays almost all players who come up, until he runs into a better player. Then the Top Player takes over. He is also a player who is good enough to make a buck at home - but not good enough to show a priofit on the road by himself.
Click to expand...

Kinda like me going on the road with Louie Louie, OldHasBeen, lol? I think you hit it out of the park, guy. Perfect if you ask me. Great first post too.
 
No One Was A Shortstop For St. Louie, Louie !

If anyone went on the road with Louie - He wasn't a shortstop - He was a tourniquet!
Anyone on the road with Louie was there mainly to "Stop The Bleeding". Louie could NEVER have stood for anyone else to play while he sat and watched.
I knew Louie since 1964 when he was 14 & I was 18. He once said later that the (one & only road trip we took together), was the only time he ever came home with a profit. Naturally, I held ALL $$$ and did ALL the managing. I am a lot bigger than Louie was.
He pulled a little 25 auto on me in Weenie Beenie's pool room parking lot and said he wanted to keep playing. He was playing Thornton Montgomery. Steve Gumphery was steering us. Steve had told us to play a couple of sets and lose a couple of hundred to Thornton on this first night. Everything went perfect except Louie didn't lose on purpose. He just lost. I didn't care because we had just played Angel in Richmond,VA and had been up for over 36 hours so it was time to pack it in and get some rest anyway. I got so pissed at louie that night because not only had we been traveling thousands of miles with a gun in my car (I didn't know about), but that he had the nerve to pull it on me. I told him to give me the gun or I was going to "Stick it up his Ass". He kinda grew up with me here in St. Louis and he knew I Would & Could. After sleeping for 14 hours and getting a great breakfast @ the poolroom, He beat Thornton out of $2,800 in about 7 hours. They were playing on the back main tourney tables and I was playing out front for just $30 Nine Ball with a fellow named David Sizemore. The total take for that day was over $3,500. One of the best days of the whole road trip. Steve, Louie & myself wacked up the $$$ and Louie & I headed off to The Carolina's.
PLEASE DON'T GET ME GOING ON ABOUT "LOUIE" STORIES !!!
 
PLEASE DON'T GET ME GOING ON ABOUT "LOUIE" STORIES !!!

I wish you would go on. Stories like this are why I read through the threads. :D
 
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