What is the best game to further the "sport" of pool?

[R Fawcett]

My vote would be 10 ball or straight pool...

But i think that playing on a 5X10 table would be better as well.

My reason for these picks is that as a sport I believe we need a dominant force in the game. A player so much better than the rest. A Tiger Woods (pre-scandal). Its kinda funny cause my mom never watches sports and hates golf, but watch sunday Tiger like crazy! That player is probably already out there but the games and formats we currently play make the top 50 players in the world interchangeable on any given day or week. They have an equalizing effect on the field. The cream rises to the top, but not sure which cream makes it.

Of coarse, the other thing we need is exposure, TV exposure. And I am not referring to the 1 in the afternoon or night type exposure. When poker skyrocketed in popularity it coincided with the NHL lockout and ESPN dropping its primetime NHL broadcast and filling that time with poker. But poker also was ready for it. It had the personalities, that handy card camera so we all know what cards the pros are playing, and knowledgeable and somewhat entertaining and professional commentators. I believe pool has the characters, with knowledgeable and entertaining commentators so it too could be ready.

The biggest thing it is missing compared to poker or golf is the money. No one wants to watch players playing for the meager amounts of money we hand out at pro tournaments. Sponsorships need to be bigger for players and the billiard industry. The IPT had alot of great ideas albeit they were a little too agressive IMO.

One Idea I have had mulling over in my head for a while was for poolhalls to take the cues off the wall and charge a dollar per visit, cue rental. That money then would be used to keep those house cues in good condition, but more importantly, would encourage the beginner players to buy a cue, instead of paying each time they come in. More money in the industry means more money for sponsorships. Its not unlike bowling when you rent shoes, or golf when you rent clubs if you don't own them.

I believe that pool should be grown grassroots-style. Local poolhalls could offer schools free table time and maybe even a house pro to teach kids the basics. Hook em early, got em for life.

I guess in the end I am saying that a game change would be good, but more is needed. We all need to see how we can help pool thrive until the exposure comes. That means eating your meal at the poolhall that is holding the tournament, using the sponsored hotels, passing on advice and tips to lower ranked players. Be a force in your area for pool, as much as you can. Make people see the passion you have for pool and why they should have it too. It is a shame that one of the games that the general public plays the most(at every hole in the wall bar), could be viewed so indifferently when it comes to being a sport. Let them see that it belongs on a pedestal, not in the the dark corner of some seedy bar.

 

[donuteric]

One Idea I have had mulling over in my head for a while was for poolhalls to take the cues off the wall and charge a dollar per visit, cue rental. That money then would be used to keep those house cues in good condition, but more importantly, would encourage the beginner players to buy a cue, instead of paying each time they come in. More money in the industry means more money for sponsorships. Its not unlike bowling when you rent shoes, or golf when you rent clubs if you don't own them.

Not a bad idea. Though I don't know how effective the plan will be, but I bought my own pair of bowling shoes not because I'm very good at bowling, I did so to save money in the long run, plus sharing shoes with the general public just isn't appealing.

 

[sfleinen]

your poll asks which game is going to further pool.

I realize it is not one of the choices but i still say that no game, however exciting to those of us who love pool, is going to further pool.
Not trying to set anyone off but pool is pool.
The best & largest tournaments in the world or the best gambling matches don’t attract more than a handful of dedicated pool people.

Sorry, but no game old or new is going to further pool.

SLIM

Slim, I gotta tell ya, we're gonna name ya the "Eeyore of AZB". "A tail isn't a tail. It's just a little bit extra at the back."

Seriously, I have to agree with justadub. I voted for 8-ball as well, for the same reason. Sure, Slim's reasoning that there no one single pool "game" that will be single-handedly responsible for elevating pool's popularity is a no-brainer.

But I think the spirit of the question is not ethereal "wish upon a star" stuff, but rather what game does one think would BE THE BEST FOUNDATION for other events/changes to happen that, in combination, would help to elevate pool's popularity.

I think that game would be 8-ball. Sure, those welded to rotation pool (e.g. 9-ball) may not like 8-ball for various reasons, but the spirit of the question is, with apologies, not interested in those people. Rather, we're interested in the general public.

When my girlfriend and I first got together, and she found out how much a a part of my life pool is, she became interested in learning the game. Fact: it was an event that got her interested in pool (i.e. meeting me). Then, as we started to explore together, the foundation she already had was "stripes and solids." She didn't know the numbers on the balls or what color corresponds to what numbered ball; only whether they were stripes or solids. Sound familiar? Yep, 8-ball. Fact: the foundation that people unfamiliar with the game use to get familiar with pool is the game that everyone who has ever held a cue played at one time in his/her life: 8-ball.

When I'm sitting watching a pool tournament (e.g. the recent Ultimate 10-ball live stream), she sits with me and asks very intelligent questions. Invariably, the game being watched is compared to the game she knows, "stripes and solids." I explained the rules of 10-ball to her, and she agrees it's a pro's game. And, if an ESPN Classic match is on (<yawn> yeah, yeah, Allison Fisher playing Karen Corr for the umpteenth time), and she sees a ball go into a pocket other than the one intended (e.g. a bank shot that takes an extra run across/down the table, going into the pocket on the opposite side of the table from the pocket that was intended), and I explain that this is a legal shot in 9-ball -- no call-shot, she says "I'm surprised the pros play that kind of game, instead of 8-ball or 10-ball, where you have to call the shot!" From a babe's mouth, but it proves the "knowledge foundation " point.

So the general Joe and Jane Doe know 8-ball (stripes and solids) and they know call-shot. In fact, I think you'll be hard pressed to find any person that's not a hardcore/avid pool player that can name the numbers on the balls and which color they are. Walk into any bar and proposition a drinking bet with your average Joe/Jane. Sure, they might be able to say that 1-8 are solids and 9-15 are stripes, but other than the 8-ball itself (of which this is a clue in itself), they probably won't get the color/number matchings correct. And for the game they're familiar with -- 8-ball -- they don't have to, either.

I recall during the IPT heyday, when the IPT was in full steam and being broadcast on TV, I had friends who don't play pool coming up to me and telling me how excited they were to watch these professionals in action, playing the game they knew. And you can see it in their eyes -- they were genuinely excited. Some of them are now pool players today because of the IPT, much to the dismay of the IPT and KT detractors. It takes an event like an IPT (the most recent TCOM-caliber event) to make an upturn in pool's popularity. One game ain't going to do it by itself, but it sure can be the foundation waiting in the wings for the next IPT-caliber event to happen!

-Sean

 

[jalapus logan]

Slim, I gotta tell ya, we're gonna name ya the "Eeyore of AZB". "A tail isn't a tail. It's just a little bit extra at the back."

Seriously, I have to agree with justadub. I voted for 8-ball as well, for the same reason. Sure, Slim's reasoning that there no one single pool "game" that will be single-handedly responsible for elevating pool's popularity is a no-brainer.

But I think the spirit of the question is not ethereal "wish upon a star" stuff, but rather what game does one think would BE THE BEST FOUNDATION for other events/changes to happen that, in combination, would help to elevate pool's popularity.

I think that game would be 8-ball. Sure, those welded to rotation pool (e.g. 9-ball) may not like 8-ball for various reasons, but the spirit of the question is, with apologies, not interested in those people. Rather, we're interested in the general public.



-Sean

Sean, that is exactly the spirit I had intended the question to contain. Thanks for the clarification.

Also, great points on good 'ol eight ball.

 

[Cameron Smith]

I agree whole heartedly with sfleinen. I've had the exact same experience he has had.

My heart wanted me to vote for Straight Pool, but my head says 8 ball. You have millions of people playing 8 ball, but we are trying to sell them 10 ball. It may be a better game than 9 ball, but from a marketing stand point it's an absolute disaster.

If you want to package pool as a product, you have to sell them a game that people are familiar with. 8 ball may have more complicated rules...but people already know enough to follow along.

That said, you will never further the sport if there isn't more effort put into selling the players as personalities. People watch personalities, not sports. Montreal fans watch the Montreal Canadiens NOT hockey. There is a difference.

 

[Cameron Smith]

While we're on the subject, what the heck is wrong with Rotation? In two exhibtion matches I've seen Efren put on, it wasn't all that slow. The point system was far more interesting and dynamic. And it's much more challenging than 9 or 10 ball. Finally, I don't think you need to worry about anyone running out a race to 5 or 9.

It's such a cool game, but in north america, we avoid it like plagued rats.

 

[Baby PacMan]

Pick any game you want,the one requirement is that every televised game has players who look like Jasmin Ouschan. As much as I don't want to admit it, all the attractive females is what got me into watching Tennis. And I'm sure others have been flipping through the channels, and came across women's beach volleyball and stopped to watch.

I know it's a gimmick, but it works (well at least on me).

 

[mnorwood]

Rotation games are bad for pool, hard to see, hard to follow, run out after run out blah blah blah.... 8 ball with better contrasting colors for the balls on a bigger table with small pockets. :thumbup:

 

[ginsu]

game

10 ball with a twist

The game is scored by points not racks.

each player breaks exactly 5 racks.. score 1 point for each ball made on the break

play safe lose 1 point

a cut shot counts as 1 point

each additional contact is an additional point so

a kick shot ( any number of rails) counts as 2 points

a bank shot counts as 2 points with an additional point for each rail

2 ball caroms and combinations count as 2 points. more balls involved more points scored.

kick into a combination and score 3 points

kick into a combination bank shot and score 4 points

they guy who's behind has to start taking crazy shots just to get back into the game

when the best players in the world are forced to start taking flyers you will see some spectacular shots..

I think people would watch that..

to many rules - theshow would be over before the avg. viewer would know what was going on.

 

[Aaron_S]

While we're on the subject, what the heck is wrong with Rotation? In two exhibtion matches I've seen Efren put on, it wasn't all that slow. The point system was far more interesting and dynamic. And it's much more challenging than 9 or 10 ball. Finally, I don't think you need to worry about anyone running out a race to 5 or 9.

It's such a cool game, but in north america, we avoid it like plagued rats.

It really is a cool game to play, but I think the rules are too convoluted for American viewers. Seems I recall one of those exhibition matches (Efren and Busty?) where the commentators and ref just gave up because even they didn't understand the rules being played.

Aaron

 

[SLIM]

I have been called worse than eore

again, i am not trying to make anyone angry with my comments; i think it is a good idea to talk about furthering pool.

That being said:
I will give an example of why i believe that pool is never going to be a sport / game that is widely televised.

How many people that are reading this saw shane van boning’s jump shot in the finals of the nine ball division of the derby city classic this year?
The one that he got three rail position on that allowed him to go on & beat niels feijen for the championship.

I am guessing very few.
That is because pool cannot get the people who love the sport to invest the money into it for it to become a mainstream event.

All the games are there already for people to enjoy.

The problem is there are very few of us that are willing to spend the money to go to the large tournaments or purchase the videos of those tournaments that actually bring in profits that could bring pool into the mainstream.

That is just the way it is.

Now, just to prove that i can conform to the spirit of the poll:grin::

I vote for eight ball.

Enjoy the day,

SLIM

 

[oldplayer]

i voted for 8 ball as that seems to be the game the general public is familiar with.....however, let's remember that it is "all about the $$$$$"! there was a snooker tournement the othe day in england, prize money was $250,000!!!!!!!! make our tournements like that and there will probably be espn watching. then it won't matter what game. it's all about the money! :thumbup:

 

[ctyhntr]

With the issues of Kevin Trudeau put aside, did 8-ball IPT have a sound business model? With someone else running it, could it sustain itself and survive?

On a similar note, I'm surprised that the APA doesn't livestream their Las Vegas finals matches.

Instead of a single game to further the sport, perhaps a triathlon. 8-ball,9-ball, and 14.1, with separate award categories.

 

[westcoast]

With the issues of Kevin Trudeau put aside, did 8-ball IPT have a sound business model? With someone else running it, could it sustain itself and survive?

On a similar note, I'm surprised that the APA doesn't livestream their Las Vegas finals matches.

Instead of a single game to further the sport, perhaps a triathlon. 8-ball,9-ball, and 14.1, with separate award categories.

I like that idea. Sounds look a good compilation- a good assessment of overall talent in the game

 

[LAlouie]

The "Under 27, WPBA Nude Championship" + Ewa Lawrence.

Entrants...to be determined by vote.
Qualifiers...proof of a gym membership. Pool skills preferable but not required.
Dress code...high 5" heels only.

 

[satkye]

Shock 9ball or 8ball when you opponent makes a ball you get shocked if you foul you get shocked harder.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... I will give an example of why i believe that pool is never going to be a sport / game that is widely televised.
...

Too late. It's already widely televised in Europe and Asia. According to Mike Shamos's article in a recent Billiards Digest, about 100 million Chinese watch the big tournaments. Evidently someone knows how to present the game and get an audience. (Well, it's not exactly a game listed above, but....)

 

[SLIM]

Apples to oranges

too late. It's already widely televised in europe and asia. According to mike shamos's article in a recent billiards digest, about 100 million chinese watch the big tournaments. Evidently someone knows how to present the game and get an audience. (well, it's not exactly a game listed above, but....)

bob,

if i wrote worldwide it was a mistake, i meant in the united states.
I’m curious if you disagree now that i have clarified.

SLIM

 

[duckie]

When I returned to playing pool, IPT was just happening. I really liked the idea that 8 ball on big tables was the game of choice. I do believe that played with the right set of rules, meaning not bar rules, 8 ball is a challenging game.

One of my goals back then was to get into some of the future IPT events. What I didn't know back then was the real state of pro pool in regarding mens events. Once it failed, I did the 9 ball thingie, tried 1 pocket, still learning 14.1, but 8 ball is my game of choice for a variety of reasons.

I'm at a point of wanting to try pro level events, but the lack of 8 ball events on 9 ft table is really disappointing. If there was something like the IPT with 8 ball as the game, I'd be in it and any other pro level 8 ball tourney.

I just don't have the motivation to put in the required effort and money it takes to start trying the pro circuit with 9 , 10, ball and 1 pocket as the main game. One must realize that going pro is really a business invest and as any business, it needs to me set up to succeed from the beginning, same with deciding to try pro level pool.

So, I also wonder if there might be more people try pro pool if 8 ball was indeed the game. I know I sure would because I really love 8 ball and believe it is a game to provides some of all the games of pool. I refer to 8 ball at times as rolling chess because the layout of the balls on the table plays such a factor on the approach to winning that game.

There are a few on this board that might remember when the major pro sports were not the major pro sports. All the current major pro sports had a beginning.

What made the current major pro sports just that? Well, most of the current major sports were in the school system and after school sports progams and city sports progam nationwide.

Nascar is different, but it is a major sport and grew from really one region of the county.

So, what are the real factors that made these sports major. I'm gonna use a phrase-school based sports that include sports that are in the schools systems, baseball, football, track, golf, bowling, water polo and so on. and non school based for the others such as pool. Just to clarify, I'm talking k-12 grade level school and sports programs.

My daughters high school offered a bowling class which see took. I wonder why not pool. Not sure why. I know there are schools that have pool classes and thats a start , but needs to be nationwide just like baseball, football and so on. Local government play a role also.

Get em hooked young to play for life in order to pass it on to there kids and grandkids. I found my love for pool in my towns rec center. If that was not there, I may have never found pool. That was over 40 years ago. I'm one of the growing numbers of what I call returnies because I played alot 40 years ago, stopped cause of kids, career and so on, but returned to the sport over 6 years ago.

But then there is Nascar. Well, this is where money comes it to play. Some people realized people would pay to watch these sports, including nascar. The money was made by filling the stands that could hold alot of paying customers.

As demand grew, the sports grew until money could be made by televising them and selling ad space during the game, the invention of the commerical.

The rest is history so to speak. The point is that until there is the demand from the public and a way to have alot of paying customers to watch pool, pool ain't going no where.

As an example is California Billiards. A great room, great tables, great staff, but when there is a big full tourney, there is no room for spectators because of all the players and there support group, yep some got'em.

If I was to be charged to watch a pool tourney at a local hall and not say a convention center that has the room to do this, there better be good viewing, good seating and not cramped conditions, fighting to place food/drink order and so on. Not sure there are many local types pool rooms that could do this.

In regards to pool rooms, well, there has to be more family related, clean, no BS type places. If there is no where for kids and others to play, there is no future. In Texas, I saw more bars with pool tables than pool rooms. Yes, there is a difference. And yes Non smoking does come into play where it comes to kids and people with breathing problems.

So, two things need to happen in the long run for pool to really grow, One, get more people to play. This is not only kids, but those that would not go into a pool room like Hawley's in Texas to learn pool, but would say if there was a table and classes's offered say at rec center, local hall in conjuction the city sports progam and senior centers.

Second are the places like I mentoned above. I'm at the point in life that I'd love to have a little room with 5 - 6 tables that is run in such anyone felt comfortable to be in at anytime of the day. One of the first places I went when I got my license was to Arlington Texas to Campus Billiards. Just tables, soda out of the machine, chips from the counter guy and the ole time in/out stamp clock system.

gees, way to much coffee this morning.

 

[jalapus logan]

Too late. It's already widely televised in Europe and Asia. According to Mike Shamos's article in a recent Billiards Digest, about 100 million Chinese watch the big tournaments. Evidently someone knows how to present the game and get an audience. (Well, it's not exactly a game listed above, but....)

Proof positive that pool has widespread appeal! As diverse as the U.S. is, I refuse to believe that our sport can't grow.