What is the best way to remove a ferrule?

soarcj said:
I am new to cue rebuilding. What is the best way to remove a ferrule? Which video or book is the best to buy on cue repair? soarcj@aol.com
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I'm assuming you have a lathe, correct? If so, you just cut it off with your tool in the tool post.
Try Chris Hightowers book on cue building, www.cuesmith.com
He also has a couple videos available. I have both videos and the book, excellent descriptions and full of info about cue repair and building.

Zim
 
On a lathe I usually make make a few plunge cuts with a cuttoff tool or something simular,down until I just thin the inside diameter of the ferrule. Most of the time that will leave a few rings that you can get a grip on, and will slide off easily without touching the wood tenon, and changing It's diameter. Threaded ferrules can alittle more dificult and take more time & effort to clean up the threads. I do those alittle different, on a case by case basis. Hope this helps.

Greg
 
Heat it, which will break down the glue and they will screw right off.
I used to use a piece of leather and a pair of pliers with the lathe running in reverse, but find it easier to just hit the ferrule with a torch briefly, then crank it off with pliers.
You can save the ferrule (ivory) buy heating with STEAM.
Unthreaded ferrules will come off the same way, or you can simply cut them off.
 
Sheldon said:
Heat it, which will break down the glue and they will screw right off.
I used to use a piece of leather and a pair of pliers with the lathe running in reverse, but find it easier to just hit the ferrule with a torch briefly, then crank it off with pliers.
You can save the ferrule (ivory) buy heating with STEAM.
Unthreaded ferrules will come off the same way, or you can simply cut them off.
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Most of what I get are slip tenons, the only threaded I get are when they break and come apart, and I have to pick pieces out. Guess that meens they grab better as expected, could just be more slip tenons out there, but being threaded has to have something to do with it also.

I have an sx micro butane torch. Is that too much for heating them up Sheldon? I imagine you keep the heat on the ferrule away from the faces, and rotate to heat evenly, as you would when heating fittings up to loosen them, but how much heat can it take, and what kind of flame should I be putting to them?

I use the leather to get pliers on them when loose, and had luck backing them off, also screwed them on like that, as not to mar the ferrule, but putting the heat to them always concerned me. Does it work as well with tight threads? of the few I have threaded Myself, they were almost tight enough that they would have held up with out glue, and be tough to unscrew anyway. Guess I should drill a bit bigger before tapping huh. I try not to replace anymore tenons then I have to, so try to be real carefull without snapping them, but like them tight. that's My concern, and reason for questioning.

With the slip tenons, guess heating them would work well also. Just as easy for me to plunge cut them as I mentioned since there is always a tool for the job in My post anyway. The rings it leaves usually loosen themselves, and slide off easy enough, so never had a reason to go outside of my box on them :D . Now the threaded are another story, the heat would be the way to go for Me there, just don't get many to try it on.

Thanks,
Greg
 
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Cue Crazy said:
I have an sx micro butane torch. Is that too much for heating them up Sheldon? I imagine you keep the heat on the ferrule away from the faces, and rotate to heat evenly, as you would when heating fittings up to loosen them, but how much heat can it take, and what kind of flame should I be putting to them?
I use the leather to get pliers on them when loose, and had luck backing them off, also screwed them on like that, as not to mar the ferrule, but putting the heat to them always concerned me. Does it work as well with tight threads? of the few I have threaded Myself, they were almost tight enough that they would have held up with out glue, and be tough to unscrew anyway. Guess I should drill a bit bigger before tapping huh. I try not to replace anymore tenons then I have to, so try to be real carefull without snapping them, but like them tight. that's My concern, and reason for questioning.
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Practice on some broken housecues or something like that until you get a feel for how hot they need to get and how strong your torch is. Of course you don't want to get the wood too hot, or scorch it so care must be taken! The torch you have should be fine. I usually heat the tip end of the ferrule only and let the base warm up by itself.
If the threads are real tight, heating the ferrule will only help, as it will expand a bit. You can usually get a pretty good idea whether the ferrule will unscrew by how much torque you have to put on it. If you feel like you might twist the tenon off, resort to the cutting tool, and carefully cleaning up the threads.
 
Does anyone know the tenon diameter on a Viking shaft?

Is the tenon made from the shaft wood itself, or is it a dowel pin?
 
Sheldon said:
Practice on some broken housecues or something like that until you get a feel for how hot they need to get and how strong your torch is. Of course you don't want to get the wood too hot, or scorch it so care must be taken! The torch you have should be fine. I usually heat the tip end of the ferrule only and let the base warm up by itself.
If the threads are real tight, heating the ferrule will only help, as it will expand a bit. You can usually get a pretty good idea whether the ferrule will unscrew by how much torque you have to put on it. If you feel like you might twist the tenon off, resort to the cutting tool, and carefully cleaning up the threads.
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Thanks for the tips, and reasurance Sheldon. Sounds like common sense, and along the lines of how I thought might be the way to go about It. I'll try It out next time. Anythings worth trying If It will make it easier. Don't much care for picking pieces out of the threads, very time consuming. Just a good thing I don't get many to fix, and the ones I have threaded Myself seem to be holding up.

Thanks,
Greg
 
Cue Crazy said:
Thanks for the tips, and reasurance Sheldon. Sounds like common sense, and along the lines of how I thought might be the way to go about It. I'll try It out next time. Anythings worth trying If It will make it easier. Don't much care for picking pieces out of the threads, very time consuming. Just a good thing I don't get many to fix, and the ones I have threaded Myself seem to be holding up.
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These little guys will clean up old threads nicely... they also work really well for cutting new ones.
qdie.gif

Atlas Billiards
 
Sheldon said:
These little guys will clean up old threads nicely... they also work really well for cutting new ones.
qdie.gif

Atlas Billiards
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OOh Yeah,
That one looks alot better then the one I have, when did they start carrying them? have not seen those on there yet for some reason. Do they have the hole in the back like the alluminum ones did? The one I have has around a 3/8 bore in the back that I used a steel dowel in to mount in My tailstock chuck. It allows me to turn the die, while keeping it centered easily. That one looks alot better then mine.

Thanks Again, gonna get one of those, and try it out.

Greg
 
Cue Crazy said:
OOh Yeah,
That one looks alot better then the one I have, when did they start carrying them? have not seen those on there yet for some reason. Do they have the hole in the back like the alluminum ones did? The one I have has around a 3/8 bore in the back that I used a steel dowel in to mount in My tailstock chuck. It allows me to turn the die, while keeping it centered easily. That one looks alot better then mine.
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They do have a hole in the back, and it's the exact diameter that you want to cut the tenon to. It's handy because you dont need to measure the tenon, you just cut it down till the hole fits snug over it, wax the tenon and tap it. I use it with the lathe running full speed, just hold it in your hand and run it onto the tenon letting it slip when you want to stop tapping.
Not that speed is an issue, but once you get it down, you can cut a tenon and install a ferrule in about 2 minutes.
 
Sheldon said:
They do have a hole in the back, and it's the exact diameter that you want to cut the tenon to. It's handy because you dont need to measure the tenon, you just cut it down till the hole fits snug over it, wax the tenon and tap it. I use it with the lathe running full speed, just hold it in your hand and run it onto the tenon letting it slip when you want to stop tapping.
Not that speed is an issue, but once you get it down, you can cut a tenon and install a ferrule in about 2 minutes.
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So just use alittle manual clutch action, and it will feed It'self :D , Gotcha. I do like to gauge size that way when I have something the same diameter, seems alot more acurrate to me, so that sounds like a nice bonus to It. Thanks again Sheldon, As always You've been very helpfull.
 
Sheldon, do you prefer to leave the bottom of the tenon ( about .200" long ) oversized and not threaded?
Ivor-X is designed to have a little shoulder to keep the tenon a little stronger.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Sheldon, do you prefer to leave the bottom of the tenon ( about .200" long ) oversized and not threaded?
Ivor-X is designed to have a little shoulder to keep the tenon a little stronger.
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If I cut the threads with a router I do, but not when I use the die.
 
removing a ferrule

JohnnyP said:
Does anyone know the tenon diameter on a Viking shaft?

Is the tenon made from the shaft wood itself, or is it a dowel pin?
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Viking does not have a tenon. They have a SOLID ferrule, that has a small screw sticking out of the bottom. Then they drill & tap a hole into the end of the shaft. The ferrule is simply glued & screwed into the end of the shaft...JER
 
Jerry:

JohnnyP's cues

Thanks for the information. No wonder my new Viking has so much deflection. Solid ferrule with a screw in it? Sheesh.

I paid over $500 for it. Woody at Triangle Billiards helped me with the order. It's 62" (31+31). It looks and hits great, but I'm about ready to pick up my old 57" cue again. It has an 11.4mm ferrule, a thin, whippy shaft, and has much less deflection.

I went back to Triangle to pick up a joint protector, and Woody let me hit a few with a new Predator P2. Wish he had shown that to me first. Wow, when you apply English, the cueball still goes where you aim.

I asked the question, because I was thinking of "predatorizing' the shaft. I was going to leave the original ferrule in place. Here was my plan:

Remove tip
Bore 1/4" hole 6" deep
Install 1/4" end plug
Retip

Any recommendations? I think Predator makes a 30" shaft, but I kinda had my heart set on a 31".

Any way I go is probably going to upset the balance, after learning how heavy the end of the original shaft is. Sounds like it might take a complete rework to fix it.
 
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The closest you could get would be getter a Predator partial matched to your cue.
I believe they are sold in 30.5 lengths.
I could be wrong.
 
Cueman also makes a nice ferrule threader. It has a metal dowel that you can chuck up in your lathe and the threader slips right into it. I've tried the heating method but never had much luck. I usually end up cutting them off with a carbide tool bit. If it's a threaded ferrule I take it down an pick out the materianl that remains in the threads with a razor blade, it usually pops out of the groove in one piece.
 
JohnnyP said:
Does anyone know the tenon diameter on a Viking shaft?

Is the tenon made from the shaft wood itself, or is it a dowel pin?
Click to expand...

It depends on the age of the cue. The 70's and early 80's Vikings had a steel screw with no tenon. Later 80's and early 90's have a real short wood tenon with a steel screw coming out of that. Late 90's to present have a regular threaded 5/16-18 wood tenon pretty much like everyone else uses. I would melt all Viking ferrules off using various methods already mentioned, that way you won't get any surprises.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
Chris: It's a new cue, so I guess it should have a normal ferrule/tenon.

What do you think of my idea to "semi-predatorize" the shaft? The method leaves the original ferrule in place. Not ideal, but the shaft should play better than it does now. I'm afraid to spin the ball with it. Love to do it with my old cue.


Remove tip
Bore 1/4" hole x 6" deep
Install 1/4" end plug
Install new tip
 
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