What is the Supposed Phenomena of Center to Edge Aiming?

JoeyInCali said:
Ok, then it can be written on one page of paper.
Click to expand...

My version does. What I will try and use to teach someone like my wife, is a diagram. It is visual.
I also don't think I'm a good teacher. I can see a 2 rail kick or a 3 rail bank and know where I need to hit without a freakin protractor.

That said, I can see it.
Trying to explain it to someone else is much tougher, especially when they evidently can't see it.
I can tell someone to aim right at my finger tip...and they can still miss it ( by a mile )
It is that aptitude that either makes CTE work or not work for you.

IMO
 
Mr. Wilson said:
My version does. What I will try and use to teach someone like my wife, is a diagram. It is visual.
I also don't think I'm a good teacher. I can see a 2 rail kick or a 3 rail bank and know where I need to hit without a freakin protractor.

That said, I can see it.
Trying to explain it to someone else is much tougher, especially when they evidently can't see it.
I can tell someone to aim right at my finger tip...and they can still miss it ( by a mile )
It is that aptitude that either makes CTE work or not work for you.

IMO
Click to expand...

Dave,

Relatively good players like 8Pack Anthony, Dan, Myself, & others that can make those 5 shots on our own with our method... could not do so when following the prescription objectively.

When using the same visual & the same pivot... objectively... we get the same angle out for all 5 parallel shots & not 5 different outcome angles of approximately 25 degrees or more in difference.

Apparently... the phenomena does not exists for us. I say that sarcastically.

That is why Dan, I & others have asked what is supposed to objectively be different that allows the same visual & the same pivot to yield at least 5 different outcome angles... & evidently each & ALL of the ones in between.

What is the supposed phenomena supposed to be?

All the Best for You & Yours,
Rick
 
ENGLISH! said:
Dave,

Relatively good players like 8Pack Anthony, Dan, Myself, & others that can make those 5 shots on our own with our method... could not do so when following the prescription objectively.

When using the same visual & the same pivot... objectively... we get the same angle out for all 5 parallel shots & not 5 different outcome angles of approximately 25 degrees or more in difference.

Apparently... the phenomena does not exists for us. I say that sarcastically.

That is why Dan, I & others have asked what is supposed to objectively be different that allows the same visual & the same pivot to yield at least 5 different outcome angles... & evidently each & ALL of the ones in between.

What is the supposed phenomena supposed to be?

All the Best for You & Yours,
Rick
Click to expand...


Do you require a phenomenon?
Again, like I said...I can clearly see what I need to do, yet I can't express to someone even when trying to pinpoint for them where they need to hit.......because they can't see it.

I don't think it is a one size fits all proposition.
This is why I am taking a min to say something to get you off the focus of systems. Works for some and helps. Doesn't work for others...so?

If you can make the shots on your own, why are you harping on the systems? Evidently, you don't need the help.

WHY worry then?
 
Mr. Wilson said:
Do you require a phenomenon?
Again, like I said...I can clearly see what I need to do, yet I can't express to someone even when trying to pinpoint for them where they need to hit.......because they can't see it.

I don't think it is a one size fits all proposition.
This is why I am taking a min to say something to get you off the focus of systems. Works for some and helps. Doesn't work for others...so?

If you can make the shots on your own, why are you harping on the systems? Evidently, you don't need the help.

WHY worry then?
Click to expand...

Ahhh...

You can ask why... but I can't ask What, or How, or Why.:wink:

I have an affinity for the Truth... & a Love for The Game... & I hate to hear & think of individuals wasting their time in an attempt to get better trying to employ something that simply does not exist.

Naturally if they wish to do so that is up to them... but... they should at least know that there is more than just a chance that the product is not as it is asserted to be before they go in & spend & invest maybe a year or more trying to get what is supposed to be an 'objective aiming system' when no such animal exists... at least not without "The Phenomena".

A Phenomena Is Basically Promised.

What is that phenomena supposed to be.

All the Best for You & Yours,
Rick
 
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ENGLISH! said:
Ahhh...

You can ask why... but I can't ask What, or How, or Why.:wink:

I have an affinity for the Truth... & a Love for The Game... & I hate to hear & think of individuals wasting their time in an attempt to get better trying to employ something that simply does not exist.

Naturally if they wish to do so that is up to them... but... they should at least know that there is more than just a chance that the product is not as it asserted to be before they go in & spend & invest maybe a year ore more trying to get what is supposed to be an 'objective aiming system' when no such animal exists... at least not without "The Phenomena".

A Phenomena Is Basically Promised.

What is that phenomena supposed to be.

All the Best for You & Yours,
Rick
Click to expand...

One of these days....I won't be able to help you.
Maybe you should focus more on living in this moment.

This quest isn't healthy for you.


Let me add:

Stan is working his system and trying to help.
You say you are trying to help. Write your own book then.

The hunting him and others down for their beliefs is over.
You write some books and create CDs and distribute them and *then* you'll be considered equal in that regard.

This is good advise, whether you recognize it or not.
 
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Mr. Wilson said:
One of these days....I won't be able to help you.
Maybe you should focus more on living in this moment.

This quest isn't healthy for you.
Click to expand...

Sir,

Given the most recent events that mostly only You & I know about...

I could take you to be talking literally rather than figuratively.

I also now see some other matters perhaps more clearly...

Hence, I do not know to whom I am conversing. A fellow member or Mgt.

I will take your words here under great consideration.
 
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Mr. Wilson Sir,

I just saw your addition.

My Dad taught me that if a police officer ever pulls me over... I'm to say, Yes Sir, No Sir, & Thank You Sir...

THEN... if I am in the right, I can 'fight' it in Court...

where we are on more equal footing.
 
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It's not a threat. You've got as many privileges as anyone here.
Respect Stan's as much as you wish yours to be respected.



One way or another, the fighting has to stop.
 
Mr. Wilson said:
It's not a threat. You've got as many privileges as anyone here.
Respect Stan's as much as you wish yours to be respected.

One way or another, the fighting has to stop.
Click to expand...

Sir,

Anyone can question what ever I say & some certainly do & some do much more & worse.

Earlier today I was called a "low life liar". That is just one of the latest on a list from that individual only since my return.

I've posted before that I respect the effort, the time, the monetary investment, etc. and the desire & wish to help others perhaps play better regarding such an individual.

If I do not have the privilege to speak my mind & voice my opinion in the same manner without breaking the rules as that individual... Then I do not see how I have as many privileges as that individual or others.

I'm so glad that we were able to stay on topic in this thread(sarcasm).

A thread that I see as simply asking a question. A question that one would think that someone would be able to answer.

Yet... we are where we are. I did not know that this was your intent.

All the Best for You & Yours.
 
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Quick hint

If you use the concepts of :

relative rotation of the cue ball vs table position

the movement of the tangent points

how that can tie you to the shot line

then you'll be taking a step in the right direction.
 
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ENGLISH! said:
This thread is an attempt to garner for ALL concerned...

EXACTLY WHAT is the Supposed Phenomena for Center to Edge 'Aiming'.

If anyone knows what it is supposed to be, then I would appreciate it if they could explain exactly WHAT it is supposed to be in reasonable rational terms...

& not to just say... I or we do not know WHAT it is supposed to be, but it does exist.

This is not a 'poll' to see how many BELIEVE in it's existence if they do not even know WHAT it it supposed to be.

Once it is determined & defined as to WHAT it is... Then perhaps it can be discussed as to it's potential validity.

Also... No one is forced to participate here & no on is forced to read any further in this thread. Each individual will make their own decision regarding that CHOICE.

I ask that EVERYONE that does Choose to post here to PLEASE do so in a civil manner & without all of the personal crap.

Please discuss the topic or please do not participate here in this thread at all.

Thank you for your cooperation should you Choose to extend it.

Best Wishes for ALL & Your Family & Friends As Well.

Rick
Click to expand...

I would say things in layman's terms like:

1) The visible edge of the object ball is a ready target, as is center cue ball -- both are more easily discerned by the player than, say, a ghost ball point in the air 1 1/4" off the object ball.

2) A wide variety of cuts will fall into a pocket from a half ball hit or close to half ball.

3) Half ball makes it easy to gauge speed on both the object and cue balls following impact.

4) Subtle adjustments can be made subconsciously from CTE reference points and edges.

5) A number of "Houle-ish" and other systems use these points for easy pivot-and-shoot systems.

6) All players should strive to aim by instinct, however, reference points for intermediates are often vital to build toward those instincts.
 
BilliardsAbout said:
I would say things in layman's terms like:

1) The visible edge of the object ball is a ready target, as is center cue ball -- both are more easily discerned by the player than, say, a ghost ball point in the air 1 1/4" off the object ball.

2) A wide variety of cuts will fall into a pocket from a half ball hit or close to half ball.

3) Half ball makes it easy to gauge speed on both the object and cue balls following impact.

4) Subtle adjustments can be made subconsciously from CTE reference points and edges.

5) A number of "Houle-ish" and other systems use these points for easy pivot-and-shoot systems.

6) All players should strive to aim by instinct, however, reference points for intermediates are often vital to build toward those instincts.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Matt.

But... I do not think any of those are THE referenced phenomena & I do not think you are talking about the same supposed 'system'. I guess the title of the thread is not clear.

May God Bless All the Best for You & Yours,
Rick
 
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Vorpal Cue said:
If you use the concepts of relative rotation of the cue ball vs table position and the movement of the tangent points and how that can tie you to the shot line, you'll be taking a step in the right direction.

Good luck. :smile:
Click to expand...

Thanks.

But that too does not sound like the referenced "phenomena".
 
BilliardsAbout said:
I would say things in layman's terms like:

1) The visible edge of the object ball is a ready target, as is center cue ball -- both are more easily discerned by the player than, say, a ghost ball point in the air 1 1/4" off the object ball.

2) A wide variety of cuts will fall into a pocket from a half ball hit or close to half ball.

3) Half ball makes it easy to gauge speed on both the object and cue balls following impact.

4) Subtle adjustments can be made subconsciously from CTE reference points and edges.

5) A number of "Houle-ish" and other systems use these points for easy pivot-and-shoot systems.

6) All players should strive to aim by instinct, however, reference points for intermediates are often vital to build toward those instincts.
Click to expand...

Regarding #6... That may be the Real Phenomenon.... Of what the human mind is capable. Given just a few key indicators, the human mind can employ its instincts regarding just those few approximations & then instinctively get the intention accomplished by making even the slightest of adjustments off of those approximate indicators.

Thanks, Matt, for bringing instinct into the 'conversation' as instinct can certainly be more than a bit of a phenomemon.

May God Bless & Merry Christmas to You & Yours,
Rick
 
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BilliardsAbout said:
I would say things in layman's terms like:
1) The visible edge of the object ball is a ready target, as is center cue ball -- both are more easily discerned by the player than, say, a ghost ball point in the air 1 1/4" off the object ball.
2) A wide variety of cuts will fall into a pocket from a half ball hit or close to half ball.
3) Half ball makes it easy to gauge speed on both the object and cue balls following impact.
4) Subtle adjustments can be made subconsciously from CTE reference points and edges.
5) A number of "Houle-ish" and other systems use these points for easy pivot-and-shoot systems.
6) All players should strive to aim by instinct, however, reference points for intermediates are often vital to build toward those instincts.
Click to expand...
This is good stuff.
I remember way back in 1957, Wimpy Lassiter came through Atlanta and beat Joe Cosgrove and then Danny Jones at Big Town Billiards at Five Points, downtown Atlanta. I was just a 17 year old kid.
Wimpy had a black line on the ferrule of his stick that had been drawn with an ink pen.
He said to us kids, that he used that line and center cue ball to make dead certain he was aiming on a half ball hit. On cuts, he always began at the half ball hit position, he said. Then he'd slightly pivot the stick with his bridge hand a tiny imperceptible amount when the shot required a hit other than half ball. The application of spin (english) was done by slightly rotating the cue clockwise or counter clockwise with the back hand while maintaining the same lineup.
Danny Jones jumped all over this technique right away (he was my boyhood pool playing idol). Billy Johnson, who was younger than all of us, did something similar also, except he didn't use the line.
Both of those players came out of Atlanta and I watched them for hours and hours for years right here when they were in prime form before they hit the road.
I have used that line on my stick for years. It certainly is a refining aid (and an AID only) when using the CTE method of playing.
This may be off topic, but your comments inspired me to type this. Hope it is not offensive to the thread.
 
To try to stay on topic.

CTE or any aiming system is going to be something different or something similar for anybody. It's not one specific thing.

For some people it's their primary aiming method. For other people they will only use it on certain shots etc, for others they will use it to help them find their contact point or better find the ghost ball location and use feel from there.

With all the being said, for me it's just a backup plan. I'm 98 percent a feel player and I only use CTE (and another aiming system someone else taught me via phone) when I have to go for the shot and aiming the shot via "feel" just doesnt initially feel right. That and, for me, it works wonders on really thin cut shots.

Big thanks to Cookie Man for showing me the basics of CTE years ago!
 
GoldenFlash said:
This is good stuff.
I remember way back in 1957, Wimpy Lassiter came through Atlanta and beat Joe Cosgrove and then Danny Jones at Big Town Billiards at Five Points, downtown Atlanta. I was just a 17 year old kid.
Wimpy had a black line on the ferrule of his stick that had been drawn with an ink pen.
He said to us kids, that he used that line and center cue ball to make dead certain he was aiming on a half ball hit. On cuts, he always began at the half ball hit position, he said. Then he'd slightly pivot the stick with his bridge hand a tiny imperceptible amount when the shot required a hit other than half ball. The application of spin (english) was done by slightly rotating the cue clockwise or counter clockwise with the back hand while maintaining the same lineup.
Danny Jones jumped all over this technique right away (he was my boyhood pool playing idol). Billy Johnson, who was younger than all of us, did something similar also, except he didn't use the line.
Both of those players came out of Atlanta and I watched them for hours and hours for years right here when they were in prime form before they hit the road.
I have used that line on my stick for years. It certainly is a refining aid (and an AID only) when using the CTE method of playing.
This may be off topic, but your comments inspired me to type this. Hope it is not offensive to the thread.
Click to expand...

No. It is off topic, but not offensive at all. In fact, I think it may be one of you better posts. But... It brings up the question of what Wimpy meant by pivoting to center WITH his bridge. Did he pivot ON his bridge... Or did he pivot at a point somewhere behind his bridge by sliding his bridge... Or was it combination of both?

Interesting... But I do not think that is The referenced "phenomena".

Best Wishes for You & Yours.
 
ENGLISH! said:
This thread is an attempt to garner for ALL concerned...

EXACTLY WHAT is the Supposed Phenomena for Center to Edge 'Aiming'.

If anyone knows what it is supposed to be, then I would appreciate it if they could explain exactly WHAT it is supposed to be in reasonable rational terms...

& not to just say... I or we do not know WHAT it is supposed to be, but it does exist.

This is not a 'poll' to see how many BELIEVE in it's existence if they do not even know WHAT it it supposed to be.

Once it is determined & defined as to WHAT it is... Then perhaps it can be discussed as to it's potential validity.

Also... No one is forced to participate here & no on is forced to read any further in this thread. Each individual will make their own decision regarding that CHOICE.

I ask that EVERYONE that does Choose to post here to PLEASE do so in a civil manner & without all of the personal crap.

Please discuss the topic or please do not participate here in this thread at all.

Thank you for your cooperation should you Choose to extend it.

Best Wishes for ALL & Your Family & Friends As Well.

Rick
Click to expand...
CTE is specific to Stan Shuffet, I believe. Many of us do some level of Hal Houle-based aiming, but it would be incorrect to say what I do is Center-to-Edge aiming, even if it comes up a lot in my aiming.

Maybe that's part of the confusion. But, basically, CTE means center (of cueball) to edge (of object ball) aiming as a (the?) very common object-to-object aim line. It defines the half-ball hit and what old timers refer to as the "Golden Angle."

I suppose if a system is based off of this notion, then a system could be then a CTE system, I suppose. But, CTE is specific to Stan. Hal had twenty-something related systems.


Freddie
 
Cornerman said:
CTE is specific to Stan Shuffet, I believe. Many of us do some level of Hal Houle-based aiming, but it would be incorrect to say what I do is Center-to-Edge aiming, even if it comes up a lot in my aiming.

Maybe that's part of the confusion. But, basically, CTE means center (of cueball) to edge (of object ball) aiming as a (the?) very common object-to-object aim line. It defines the half-ball hit and what old timers refer to as the "Golden Angle."

I suppose if a system is based off of this notion, then a system could be then a CTE system, I suppose. But, CTE is specific to Stan. Hal had twenty-something related systems.


Freddie
Click to expand...


Hal made it very clear to me that if I released what he knew no one would believe it.....This is a major reason that Hal clammed up. I spent 10 years trying figure out what Hal connected with that most all would not believe and that many would attack. I guess after 15 to 20 thousand hours I got lucky and connected too. I know why he clammed up cause I want to do the same thing every other day. Just not enough faith or belief or support for me to trudge on for sharing what he uncovered. However, I am hell-bent on going forward but there is so much discouragement that it makes me sick.

Stan Shuffett
 
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