What is your definition..,

[sjm]

A ‘professional’ is one who ‘professes’ to a certain discipline.
You can be broke, even in debt, and still be a pro.

Maybe, but one guy who felt the distinction to be very important was golfing legend Bobby Jones, who said that one who plays a sport solely for love of the game is an amateur, and he considered it an honor to labeled as such.

In my view, anyone who persistently gives their best at something without any real hope of remuneration is a poster child for amateurism. I am inclined to call such a competitor a hobbyist, but never a professional.

 

[boogieman]

What is your definition of a Professional Pool Player?

IMO it's someone they usually put on TV tables. Fargorate in the top 100 or so. I've seen them call anyone over 650 "master level" meaning they are probably going to win if the pros don't show up and demonstrate great knowledge and skill. It probably depends greatly on the local pool culture. Alternately someone who makes a living at it. I don't really count instructors as pro pool players, I mean, they can be but I'd call them professional instructors.

 

[markjames]

golfing legend Bobby Jones,

i respect legends and golfers and bobby jones, but don’t think his opinion from over 100 years ago applies

In my view, anyone who persistently gives their best at something without any real hope of remuneration is a poster child for amateurism.

i respect your argument here, but disagree

i feel (a casual player) that ‘remuneration’ isn’t always measured by dollars and trophies

 

[skogstokig]

Makes the substantial majority of income from pool. Tournaments gambling teaching. To do it as a tournament player 800+ FargoRate is the ballpark. But a full time instructor with a 670 FargoRate is a pro in my mind. That may not clarify things.

i think that's a stretch. sure instructors make money out of pool, but so do pool commentators, product manufacturers. i would say 750+ fargo is a pro

 

[MitchAlsup]

What is your definition of a Professional Pool Player?

Any person who makes more than 50% of total income by playing or teaching pool is a professional pool person.

 

[sjm]

A productive thread for sure that underscores that nobody is quite sure what constitutes a pool professional.

 

[T411]

Not all money list are published… it’s called gambling.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Do you consider any other activity "pro" with no income?

pj
chgo

Yes. If you are highly skilled in your discipline you are a pro. A doctor, for example, doing a volunteer stint in Africa for 20 years. Or an accountant sent to prison doing all of the inmate’s taxes. Or a licensed contractor donating all of his time to habitat for humanity. Those people would all make zero dollars. They are all professionals.

Money made has no bearing on skill. None.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Maybe, but one guy who felt the distinction to be very important was golfing legend Bobby Jones, who said that one who plays a sport solely for love of the game is an amateur, and he considered it an honor to labeled as such.

In my view, anyone who persistently gives their best at something without any real hope of remuneration is a poster child for amateurism. I am inclined to call such a competitor a hobbyist, but never a professional.

That is a good explanation. A 630 player who enters every single open event around the country, practices his arms off, occasionally beats a much stronger player, etc. Great example of an amateur who has devoted himself to his dream.

 

[markjames]

i take this from the BCA ‘s
Hall of Fame web site

a total of 77 individuals have been inducted; 57 in the player category and 20 meritorious service honorees.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

A doctor, for example, doing a volunteer stint in Africa for 20 years. Or an accountant sent to prison doing all of the inmate’s taxes. Or a licensed contractor donating all of his time to habitat for humanity. Those people would all make zero dollars. They are all professionals.

They all were paid professionals before volunteering.

Pool is the only activity for which I've heard this alternative definition suggested (maybe I need to get out more).

pj
chgo

 

[iusedtoberich]

IF, you want to include money in the equation, then it should go like this:

"Pretend" that pool was a multi hundred million dollar sport. The top tournament winners made 20MM per year. With that context, which players today (assuming they each played a full season) would be on the "tour" and doing well? Those are your pros. This question is answered by skill completely. Not money. Not personality. Not how nice or mean the player is. All that matters is can they win matches. I'd put the breakdown of this at FargoRate 730 for the very bottom players.

 

[iusedtoberich]

They all were paid professionals before volunteering.

Pool is the only activity for which I've heard this alternative definition suggested.

pj
chgo

Are you kidding? You can have people graduate dr school and never once take a paying job! Come on.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

You can have people graduate dr school and never once take a paying job!

Then to me they're not "professionals" - they're not even "doctors" until they're licensed.

"Professional" doesn't mean "highly skilled" (except maybe in slang).

pj
chgo

 

[Chopdoc]

A ‘professional’ is one who ‘professes’ to a certain discipline.
You can be broke, even in debt, and still be a pro.

I might be a pro at a few things then...

 

[Chopdoc]

Yes. If you are highly skilled in your discipline you are a pro. A doctor, for example, doing a volunteer stint in Africa for 20 years. Or an accountant sent to prison doing all of the inmate’s taxes. Or a licensed contractor donating all of his time to habitat for humanity. Those people would all make zero dollars. They are all professionals.

Money made has no bearing on skill. None.

Well, if you like, we can default to the federal definition of professional.

Are we getting that serious about it?

According to federal law and regulations, most nurses are not professionals but under specific circumstances some are.

Are we going there?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

A ‘professional’ is one who ‘professes’ to a certain discipline.

To profess is to claim - it can be false.

I'd agree with "pro level" - but overall I don't much care... you do you.

pj
chgo

 

[JPB2]

i think that's a stretch. sure instructors make money out of pool, but so do pool commentators, product manufacturers. i would say 750+ fargo is a pro

Some instructors are pros, some am IMO. Randy G, Jerry Breiseth, people like that are pros IMO. I guess under my definition Dr. Dave may be a pro now. Some instructors don’t make enough or play well enough for me to consider them pros. I guess I come at it starting at an old school golf outlook. That view is too strict and doesn’t work in pool I know. All sports have loosened the definition of amateurs to some degree I think. However, when you profit off the game by playing or teaching you get into the pro realm IMO. Not working at a pool hall or being a table mechanic.

And yeah, Bobby Jones lost his amateur status after he retired but woe unto anybody calling him a pro back then. He made money from the films and books. But no longer competed pro or am. And of course sadly lost his ability to play at all.

 

[straightline]

A productive thread for sure that underscores that nobody is quite sure what constitutes a pool professional.

And professional pool is a known quantity? I'd ask what is good pool first.

 

[The Old Jaybird]

I would include a fair player who is sponsored/represents a pool company and can support himself with his earnings. prize money plus salary for doing trade shows/exhibitions/etc.

What does he put on his 1040??