What it takes to be an expert

David in FL said:
That was very, very cool.

Thanks for posting it.

Although no expert, I'd add one more thing. There's still an individual physical/intellectual capacity consideration in most, if not all endeavors.

As an example, no matter how hard I worked or applied myself throughout my entire life, I could never have played basketball for the NBA. I simply don't have the physical abilities/component to do so.
Click to expand...
You might not be able to play in the NBA, but with dedicated practice, you could still become an expert.
 
RT Ford said:
You might not be able to play in the NBA, but with dedicated practice, you could still become an expert.
Click to expand...

Not in basketball. Unless of course the definition of "expert" is dramatically changed 😁

Like it or not, people have physical limitations.
 
1. Someone who carries a briefcase and is more than 100 miles from home.
2. Someone who can describe 314 different ways to make love but has never had a girlfriend,
 
tomatoshooter said:
Yeah, most of my structured practice for the last few months has been practicing difficult shots. Some days it's a real grind, and a lot of times, it's not a lot of fun. But when I'm in a game now the harder shots are about like the 30% hardest shot of my practice routine.

I've had some tough days on the practice table but I tell myself that "if you want to do what others can't do, you have to do what they aren't willing to do." A lot of people will put in a lot of time on the table but how many of them will practice the same shot 30 times in a row. And the rain the pros are proud is because the practiced that shot 300 times in a row.
Click to expand...

Lemme help! When working on a hard shot keep at it until you make it ten times in a row. I did that for awhile. My banking and kicking got much better. I also spent six or eight hours working on one shot sometimes. After awhile I admitted that was too much of a grind and if I couldn't move past a shot in about an hour I just noted it as something to revisit later.

I watched a master instructor and a pro that had flown in from europe to take a lesson working on a shot. It was a shot I knew on a five by ten, had never tried it myself on a nine foot Diamond. Each tried about ten minutes, neither ever made the shot. I could have patted myself on the back, instead I made a note that the shot was too low percentage to try in competition. I tried the shot later on a Diamond. It didn't fall in a few tries, I quit! The shot required perfect speed and a lot of spin. The spin had to reverse then die after the second rail. I think it might still work on a nine foot gold crown, don't know if it is possible on a diamond.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
... It was a shot I knew on a five by ten, had never tried it myself on a nine foot Diamond. ...I tried the shot later on a Diamond. It didn't fall in a few tries, I quit! The shot required perfect speed and a lot of spin. The spin had to reverse then die after the second rail. I think it might still work on a nine foot gold crown, don't know if it is possible on a diamond.
Click to expand...
I'm curious... Do you remember the shot?
 
RT Ford said:
An excellent video! It validates what I tell my students to do to improve their games. Practice difficult shots.
Click to expand...
It's even better to practice difficult shots that you come up against at least occasionally in games. There are lots of difficult shots that are almost always the wrong shot to shoot. Which shots are in that category will depend on the level of the player and the game.

On the other hand.... There are very difficult shots I like to practice just because it's fun to make them occasionally or even once. Practicing those shots will prepare you to make similar shots that are a more reasonable percentage. Here's one: put the object ball half way between the foot spot and the foot rail. Put the cue ball on the line (headstring) and a diamond from the side rail. Cut the object ball straight into the corner pocket. The harder corner pocket.

That is actually a reasonable shot at one pocket if you're in stroke. That's one of the reasons I like one pocket -- the very wide range of shots that are reasonable.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I'm curious... Do you remember the shot?
Click to expand...

I remembered it a bit better after my post. It is a shot I don't think about for years. It is a shot I suspect you know well but the trick is executing it at different angles and positions of the balls.

The shot is to put a ball on the rail or near the rail fairly close to a side pocket. When the path for a simple bank is blocked you hit the object ball so it comes straight back and then has enough transferred spin that it angles back into the side pocket it was near. An easy shot when the object ball is near the side pocket and the cue ball is positioned conveniently but the further you move the object ball from the side pocket or the more awkward the cue ball position is the tougher this shot gets.

When I think about it I suspect that the nice clean polished balls the instructor and pro were using were a big part of their issue. This shot often needs a lot of transferred spin. Dirty balls that have never seen polish are probably a help.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
I remembered it a bit better after my post. It is a shot I don't think about for years. It is a shot I suspect you know well but the trick is executing it at different angles and positions of the balls.

The shot is to put a ball on the rail or near the rail fairly close to a side pocket. When the path for a simple bank is blocked you hit the object ball so it comes straight back and then has enough transferred spin that it angles back into the side pocket it was near. An easy shot when the object ball is near the side pocket and the cue ball is positioned conveniently but the further you move the object ball from the side pocket or the more awkward the cue ball position is the tougher this shot gets.

When I think about it I suspect that the nice clean polished balls the instructor and pro were using were a big part of their issue. This shot often needs a lot of transferred spin. Dirty balls that have never seen polish are probably a help.

Hu
Click to expand...
Is this the idea?

On a nice dirty table, long banks frequently reverse back nearly to where they started if you miss the shot on the end rail. The trick shot related to this is to put a ball exactly between the side pockets and bank it two or three times cross-side. I tried that on an old Gandy a couple of days ago and the ball went nearly a diamond down the table before it came back to the side pockets.
 
David in FL said:
Not in basketball. Unless of course the definition of "expert" is dramatically changed 😁

Like it or not, people have physical limitations.
Click to expand...
True. But the NBA is miles beyond 'expert'. Those are the best 500 players in the world. Role players in the NBA go to Europe and dominate those pros. Then there's a whole legion of experts that couldn't go pro. Heck, the guy who holds many Guinness world records in shooting couldn't sniff the bench of an NCAA team.

Golf is a more obvious example. 'Par' is defined as the number of strokes required to complete a hole at an expert level. Scratch golfers are experts. I'd even extend it to low single digit handicappers like my friend who was once a scratch but is more of a 4 or 5 handicap now as he barely plays. Just the eye test compared to normies tells you he is an expert.

In pool, what is an expert? A 600FR? 650? Surely the cutoff for using the word expert is no higher than that....esp if you consider all the great instructors who are nowhere near those levels of play any longer (or maybe ever?).
 
WobblyStroke said:
True. But the NBA is miles beyond 'expert'. Those are the best 500 players in the world. Role players in the NBA go to Europe and dominate those pros. Then there's a whole legion of experts that couldn't go pro. Heck, the guy who holds many Guinness world records in shooting couldn't sniff the bench of an NCAA team.

Golf is a more obvious example. 'Par' is defined as the number of strokes required to complete a hole at an expert level. Scratch golfers are experts. I'd even extend it to low single digit handicappers like my friend who was once a scratch but is more of a 4 or 5 handicap now as he barely plays. Just the eye test compared to normies tells you he is an expert.

In pool, what is an expert? A 600FR? 650? Surely the cutoff for using the word expert is no higher than that....esp if you consider all the great instructors who are nowhere near those levels of play any longer (or maybe ever?).
Click to expand...

And there are people who could practice their entire lives and not play scratch golf, 600+ Fargo level pool, or even play on a good high school basketball team.

Physical limitations are real.

Just wanting something and trying really, really hard to get there isn't always gonna make it.
 
Bob Jewett said:
It's even better to practice difficult shots that you come up against at least occasionally in games. There are lots of difficult shots that are almost always the wrong shot to shoot. Which shots are in that category will depend on the level of the player and the game.

On the other hand.... There are very difficult shots I like to practice just because it's fun to make them occasionally or even once. Practicing those shots will prepare you to make similar shots that are a more reasonable percentage. Here's one: put the object ball half way between the foot spot and the foot rail. Put the cue ball on the line (headstring) and a diamond from the side rail. Cut the object ball straight into the corner pocket. The harder corner pocket.

That is actually a reasonable shot at one pocket if you're in stroke. That's one of the reasons I like one pocket -- the very wide range of shots that are reasonable.
Click to expand...
I believe pocketing very difficult shots, while attempting to get ideal position, is extremely beneficial. Here's one I practice all the time: place the object ball 1 inch from end rail, about a diamond and a half from the corner pocket. Place the cue ball behind the headstring, a couple of ball widths from the side rail. Pocket the object ball and attempt to stop the cue ball at different points along the end rail behind the headstring. Very enjoyable!
 
David in FL said:
And there are people who could practice their entire lives and not play scratch golf, 600+ Fargo level pool, or even play on a good high school basketball team.

Physical limitations are real.

Just wanting something and trying really, really hard to get there isn't always gonna make it.
Click to expand...
Absolutely right. It isn't always gonna work out. But depending on where the bar for 'expert' level, is, I think that with the right guidance and a modicum of ability, one can achieve expert level in many areas with dedication. Besides, being an expert doesn't necessarily mean being an expert performer (see master instructors with fargos below 500). As an extreme case of a non-performing expert, one of the best kicking coaches in the NFL rides around in a wheelchair.
 
David in FL said:
Not in basketball. Unless of course the definition of "expert" is dramatically changed 😁

Like it or not, people have physical limitations.
Click to expand...
An expert is someone who's acquired a mastery at something. You can become an expert at anything. Doing dishes, sweeping floors, cutting hair, etc.. If you drive yourself to practice something for a long time, you become an expert at it. You have an 'expertise' that most other people don't have. A person may not be able to play in the NBA, but he may still be an expert basketball player. There are thousands of expert college basketball, football, and baseball players that never make the big time. Most people become an expert at something, even if it's only driving a car.
 
ShootingArts said:
The shot is to put a ball on the rail or near the rail fairly close to a side pocket. When the path for a simple bank is blocked you hit the object ball so it comes straight back and then has enough transferred spin that it angles back into the side pocket it was near.
Click to expand...
Is the ball staying on the same side of the side pockets? I think I've done three rails back to the pocket near me. I typically cross to the other side of the near pocket and back to the pocket near where the ball started. Those can be useful if you need to avoid a double kiss or get the cue ball somewhere. And most importantly, it looks badass. That's one of those where your opponent is thinking he didn't leave you anything and POW! Now he's thinking "what do I gotta do to beat this guy, he's got an answer for everything! "
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top