Anybody use the teflon soaked cloth? I have 17 9footers with 80% bangers so it needs to hold up to abuse. Half the room has simonis now, but it doesnt get appreciated. Thanks Jim
what kind of cloth?
- Thread starter blackeee
- Start date
Bill, you know I've been a fan of Championship 3030 for years for bar tables, but that was because Simonis cloth marked up bad on bar tables, but just so you know when comparking cloths, they should also be compared in wool/nylon percentages as well. Championship has had a higher nylon percentage than Simonis has used for years. But now with the new 860HR, the wool/nylon percentage is the same as the 3030, but with a new added change, by the way the 860HR has been available for years in Europe so it's not really a new cloth as it's been around for a long time, but the shearing process has been changed leaving a protective layer of wool on the surface of the cloth now, it'll be interesting to see how Championship holds up to the new style of Simonis 860HR, I'll let you know as I test the Simonis, but the changes have been great in the Simonis 860HR Tour Blue cloth, I expect nothing less with the Green 860HR.rackemfr9ball said:Great to hear all the positive feedback, a few of you are my customers and the people that change over to 3030 really do see and notice the benefits of Tour over Simonis. Gorina makes a nice Fabric also.
To clear up a statement, Our cloth starts out as a 27 ounce cloth, by the time it is sheared and goes through the finishing process it weighs in at 24. A TRUE 24 ounce cloth. I believe the other weighs in more to the tune of 21-22. If im wrong, dont fry me as I dont get to see Simonis manifest, just mine. After extensive tests done to all Worsted Fabric by a lab... We stand superior in durability. Playability... consistant through break in and no pot holes
Glenn, PM sent on a referral. Long time no talk
Bill
Glen
Champ Tour Edition is a better quality, faster cloth.3andstop said:
Hopefully some room owners that use Velocity will chime in with an opinion.
Better quality cloths normally command higher prices.
To list them in order of quality (IMO) -
Simonis (all)
Championship (Tour Edition)
Milliken (Super Pro)
Granito (Basalt)
Mali (Vestra)
Forstmann (Tournament)
Velocity Pro
IMOM said:
And all along our info was 70% wool, 30% nylon, faster then 860
Please provide a reference for the 90/10 blend you stated.
Thought this was rather interesting -
http://www.thebilliardwarehouse.com/accessories/brunswick_centennial_cloth.htm
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good to see this thread still rollin...
LOL, thats what I was thinking when I read Glenns post. Ill give the low down, Tour IS a 70/30 blend, has been for about 10 yrs that I know of. In the early developement stages I believe it was 80/20.
Centennial IS also a 70/30 Blend.
Glenn, please explain this new "change" by Simonis as it seems to be a big mystery for years, with 0 marketing or advertising. Is it new, is it old?
~Yes, im callin someones bluff~
whether your playing on a bar table, a 9ft or whatev, why would my Tour Edit. only be promoted for bar tables?? Doesnt make sense. Unless all you work on is bar tables. Valley and Mercury are recommended & made for bar tables.
Tournament grade fabric is best suited for 7, 8 & 9 whether it be a home, bar, pool room etc... Worsted on bar tables only became popular about 7-8 yrs ago and I would go as far as saying the players made that popular. We called it "Tiny Town" here, go figure.
Hi Rick!!
p.s. Did I really see someone make a post to sub 300 for 860 so you could flip the cloth over for longer life? UGH!?! Isnt 300 a Carom cloth? Takin a stab here on this one. Dont feel like researching...
Dartman said:
LOL, thats what I was thinking when I read Glenns post. Ill give the low down, Tour IS a 70/30 blend, has been for about 10 yrs that I know of. In the early developement stages I believe it was 80/20.
Centennial IS also a 70/30 Blend.
Glenn, please explain this new "change" by Simonis as it seems to be a big mystery for years, with 0 marketing or advertising. Is it new, is it old?
~Yes, im callin someones bluff~
whether your playing on a bar table, a 9ft or whatev, why would my Tour Edit. only be promoted for bar tables?? Doesnt make sense. Unless all you work on is bar tables. Valley and Mercury are recommended & made for bar tables.
Tournament grade fabric is best suited for 7, 8 & 9 whether it be a home, bar, pool room etc... Worsted on bar tables only became popular about 7-8 yrs ago and I would go as far as saying the players made that popular. We called it "Tiny Town" here, go figure.
Hi Rick!!
p.s. Did I really see someone make a post to sub 300 for 860 so you could flip the cloth over for longer life? UGH!?! Isnt 300 a Carom cloth? Takin a stab here on this one. Dont feel like researching...
Wrong...LOL, cloth is weighed by the running yard, comparison of ounces per yard only work if the cloths being compared are of the same width. Cloth 78" wide will weigh more by the running yard than cloth only 65" wide, but that don't mean it's a thicker weave of cloth because it weighs more per yard.Danny Kuykendal said:
Glen
rackemfr9ball said:
Hey Bill
I know Tour Ed is 70/30 - asking IMOM for a 90/10 reference and not getting one is just proof that
people that don't know what they're talking about - shouldn't.
On the 300 I posted that sort of as a goof since someone seemed overly concerned about durability.
300 is designed for carom and the cloth is finished on both sides so in actuality it could be flipped and reused.
I think some peeps get too wrapped up with durability.
Understandable for a high volume room owner but in reality a non-issue for a home table.
IMO when cloth looks and plays like crap it's time to change it.
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rackemfr9ball said:~Yes, im callin someones bluff~QUOTE]
OK, here we go
Then along in the 1990's since I opened the door to the worsted wool cloths in Washington state, it seemed like everyone started making worsted wool cloths, one of the names being Stealth. I recovered 137 tables with their worsted wool cloth in 6 weeks, and 3 months later had to replace all the cloth I installed because it flat out fell apart. That was when I switched to Championship Titan, everyone else switched to Mercury. I didn't care for Mercury because it had no stretch, played to fast for bar players, and was in my opinion, a cheap cloth at about $11.00 a yard, I stuck with Titan, as it was a much better playing and durable cloth. Simonis 860 followed in the next few years, but the cost was way out of line for most bar owners, and played to slow for most 8ball bar players.
Next came Championship 3030 Tour Edition. Started out playing slow, but as it broke in, it would speed up in time, and with speeding up came the balls hopping off the cushions because it became real grabby when balls would rebound off the cushions. But, I liked the cloth because it would really take a beating, and still look good. I only installed it on bar tables because most bar tables needed a bullet proof cloth, unlike the 9ft tables in our pool rooms, the Simonis 860 was a much more consistent cloth over time, if anything it slowed down a little, which was OK. So, I split the cloths I used in to 3 groups, Simonis 860 for pool-halls, 3030 for heavy play bar tables, and Titan for the bar owner that didn't want to pay all that much for recovering their pool tables, and in most cases I changed the cloth on their tables 2 times a year.
Glen
Good explanation.realkingcobra said:
This makes a good question for this weeks quiz - :grin:
Which cloth brands, besides Simonis, are available in 78" wide bolts?
Post the correct brand(s) and we'll enter your name in a drawing for a new Cue Cube.
Note - the Snake is not eligible to answer, LOL
edit - made Snake eligible
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Now for my bluff, lets just say that it really hasn't been a fair fight to compare Championship Tour Edition 3030, 70% wool, 30% nylon with Simonis 860 90%wool 10% nylon as it's apples to oranges, Ivan and I have been talking for the last few years about my input of the wear factors related to cloth, and rather than change the in use 860, the decision was made to play around with the 860HR which has been in use in Europe for several years which has the same 70%wool, 30%nylon blend as Championship Tour Edition 3030, except that we talked about doing something a little different in the shearing process, I got some of the cloth to test, and I'll tell you what, Championship is now the underdog, because now both cloths are on the same playing field. The cloth I tested has the same wear factor of the 3030, but the playability of the 860, but will not speed up over time, and will not show nearly as much ball burnish marks...so...am I bluffing, we'll seerackemfr9ball said:
Glen
Glen
OH come on...pick me, pick me...LOLDartman said:
The COBRA...lmao