What order to shoot the stripes with ball in hand?

Coos Cues

Coos Cues
What is that mentality? I don’t mean to single you out, it’s just something I hear a lot; you can accomplish any thing you want just using top, bottom, and center ball. Tor Lowry made some real good videos where that was his mantra.

I can dig it, but I’m always looking for the why, what’s the underlying theme. I think those Lowry videos are geared towards the player who diesn’t know where the rolling ball and tangent line is. That is why the emphasis is on center.

He’s saying you have to have a baseline before you can ebb and flow. Side isn’t something to be avoided at all costs; just know the route to the rail where the spin will take, right?
The mentality is to concentrate on getting proper angles and not depending on side to get you out of trouble. Natural angles and rebounds are for the most part more predictable than spinning angle for all but the top level players. Of course one needs english fairly often but it can be like a crack addiction to some. If you practice to not need it your use of it will be more effective when you do. That's my thinking anyway.
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
There are def different schools of thought on use of english.

Just today I posted a video of a breakdown of Ronnie's technique and the guy includes an interview in which Ronnie says trying to hit centre ball is basically impossible so he doesn't try to.

Mike Siegel said the same thing in his old instructional video where he recommended a trace of side on just about every shot.

If anyone has heard Earl's commentary where he's calling out shots, you know that man has an aversion to the centre axis of the CB. Interestingly, his comments on Shane were along the lines of "Shane plays like I do. He's not scared to spin that ball".

I think it is very important to have reference points of stun angles and natural roll angles and I like playing some racks with no english just as an exercise. That said, in a money match, I hit a trace of side on most shots and a lot of side on the rest :p

An open table slight cut shot into the side pocket came up in the world championships and the commentary went something like this: "Now the internet will tell you this only needs center ball or center low, but I'd struggle to name one pro that doesn't hit this with bottom right". Then the other guy agreed. Pretty sure it was JJ saying it and some guest player agreeing.

edit: here's the Ronnie vid:
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There are def different schools of thought on use of english.

Just today I posted a video of a breakdown of Ronnie's technique and the guy includes an interview in which Ronnie says trying to hit centre ball is basically impossible so he doesn't try to.

Mike Siegel said the same thing in his old instructional video where he recommended a trace of side on just about every shot.

If anyone has heard Earl's commentary where he's calling out shots, you know that man has an aversion to the centre axis of the CB. Interestingly, his comments on Shane were along the lines of "Shane plays like I do. He's not scared to spin that ball".

I think it is very important to have reference points of stun angles and natural roll angles and I like playing some racks with no english just as an exercise. That said, in a money match, I hit a trace of side on most shots and a lot of side on the rest :p

An open table slight cut shot into the side pocket came up in the world championships and the commentary went something like this: "Now the internet will tell you this only needs center ball or center low, but I'd struggle to name one pro that doesn't hit this with bottom right". Then the other guy agreed. Pretty sure it was JJ saying it and some guest player agreeing.

edit: here's the Ronnie vid:
Please don't get CJ started.
 

Gatz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So many ways this can be ran out perfectly. I should just do video's from now on instead of explaining it on here. My first two options I'd run out 90 times out of 100. That's just the best way for me as I see it.
 

Gatz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cornerman guided me to the same conclusion the other day. 2 rails from 11 to 13 has to be the absolute safest way to play the 11 to 13. This is my new 2nd fav pattern since you knocked the 13 last down a notch earlier lol. 13 first just suits my eye and still #1.
No top 8ball player would play 13 in corner period. If you want a real safe way go 15, then stun out or draw out from 11 in between 8 and 3. Absolutely no way to get fucked here. You can land on 3 balls. Going from 15 to 13 can and will get funny more times than not. You have no insurance.
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
So many ways this can be ran out perfectly. I should just do video's from now on instead of explaining it on here. My first two options I'd run out 90 times out of 100. That's just the best way for me as I see it.
Ye I like my top choice of 13 first and went 2/2 on it. The 13 last, which was option 2 for me I also ran but one try was enough to show me I like the other way more. That 10 to 13 almost got tricky for me as I didn't get quite as str8 as I needed on the 10. I instantly biffed the 11 to 13 in my attempt going that way coming up short for the side and slightly over cutting as I went 2 rails out of the corner for the 14. The corner route worked but was short again and had to play short side on 14 missing the 5 on the other side.
 

7stud

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just today I posted a video of a breakdown of Ronnie's technique and the guy includes an interview in which Ronnie says trying to hit centre ball is basically impossible so he doesn't try to.
Then wouldn't it also be impossible to hit a touch of side? It doesn't matter where you aim on the CB, you are always going to have some margin of error. Moving the aim point away from center ball doesn't magically cause your aim to be perfect. What happens if you play for a touch of side and you miss and hit center ball? Or, what happens if you miss the other way and hit more than a touch of side? Is that somehow better than missing when you aim at center ball? How?
 
Last edited:

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
There are def different schools of thought on use of english.

Just today I posted a video of a breakdown of Ronnie's technique and the guy includes an interview in which Ronnie says trying to hit centre ball is basically impossible so he doesn't try to.

Mike Siegel said the same thing in his old instructional video where he recommended a trace of side on just about every shot.

If anyone has heard Earl's commentary where he's calling out shots, you know that man has an aversion to the centre axis of the CB. Interestingly, his comments on Shane were along the lines of "Shane plays like I do. He's not scared to spin that ball".

I think it is very important to have reference points of stun angles and natural roll angles and I like playing some racks with no english just as an exercise. That said, in a money match, I hit a trace of side on most shots and a lot of side on the rest :p

An open table slight cut shot into the side pocket came up in the world championships and the commentary went something like this: "Now the internet will tell you this only needs center ball or center low, but I'd struggle to name one pro that doesn't hit this with bottom right". Then the other guy agreed. Pretty sure it was JJ saying it and some guest player agreeing.

edit: here's the Ronnie vid:
It was Karl Boyes and JJ. It baffles my mind that anyone who has actually won any type of pool tournament would ever suggest to “only use English when necessary.” English has always made this game easier.
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
It was Karl Boyes and JJ. It baffles my mind that anyone who has actually won any type of pool tournament would ever suggest to “only use English when necessary.” English has always made this game easier.
Ye I think for beginners building their repertoire of shots and learning the natural paths around the table it is a fine teaching point. But I wholeheartedly agree that it is just easier to play certain shots a certain way and when pros reach a consensus on hitting an open table shot with english, that should pretty much end any debate as to whether one should only use english when absolutely necessary. All the pros hit the shot that way because hitting it that way makes it a higher percentage shot. Simple as that. You just need to have enough hours under your belt so aiming with english is as second nature as aiming centerball... that's probably what trips up beginners most when spinning it.
 

DynoDan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
While I realize the OP’s stated objective was to ‘run out’, not to ‘win’, necessarily, I just wonder what order of play would be most ‘defensive’ (?). If pockets are tight or the balls play funny, even the simplest of shots can be bobbled, especially if you get a little out of line and need to overhit in order to recover shape.
Playing so much straight pool, with it’s multiple easy shot options and lure of a high-run extension (and thus neglecting defense) is likely why I often lose at 8 ball.
 

bpeacock

Active member
485 Fargo here...My first instinct was to shoot 15-11-two rails to the 13-14-10-8...After reading the thread, I decided to try 15-11-13 in the top side-14-10-8. After 10 attempts, I gave up on that pattern. I got hooked behind the 5ball 3 times. I actually made the 3 a couple times and got on the 14 once but missed the 10...never shot at the 8.
I changed to 13-15-11-10-14-8. I ran out my 2nd attempt and repeated it 2 out of the next 3 attempts.
Here is what I learned based on my abilities:
13-15 was very repeatable
11-10 was repeatable
10 was a bad key ball for me, as I often lost control of the cue
10-14 easy (if you don't mind a longer shot which I don't))
14 offered several paths to the 8.
I spent about 1.5 hours on this and I think it was very beneficial.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
485 Fargo here...My first instinct was to shoot 15-11-two rails to the 13-14-10-8...After reading the thread, I decided to try 15-11-13 in the top side-14-10-8. After 10 attempts, I gave up on that pattern. I got hooked behind the 5ball 3 times. I actually made the 3 a couple times and got on the 14 once but missed the 10...never shot at the 8.
I changed to 13-15-11-10-14-8. I ran out my 2nd attempt and repeated it 2 out of the next 3 attempts.
Here is what I learned based on my abilities:
13-15 was very repeatable
11-10 was repeatable
10 was a bad key ball for me, as I often lost control of the cue
10-14 easy (if you don't mind a longer shot which I don't))
14 offered several paths to the 8.
I spent about 1.5 hours on this and I think it was very beneficial.
I like it. Thanks for the great feedback.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
So many ways this can be ran out perfectly. I should just do video's from now on instead of explaining it on here. My first two options I'd run out 90 times out of 100. That's just the best way for me as I see it.
Videos on a 9’ tables would be great instructional.
 

Coos Cues

Coos Cues
So many ways this can be ran out perfectly. I should just do video's from now on instead of explaining it on here. My first two options I'd run out 90 times out of 100. That's just the best way for me as I see it.
That's because you are a beast! I've seen your videos.
 
Top