What order to shoot the stripes with ball in hand?

Coos Cues

Coos Cues
The mean fargo rating in the bca league where I live is about 400. Out of 60 players playing this summer only 4 have a fargo rating above 550.

So to be fair I looked at a random BCA league in the seattle area where there are surely more good player and they had 10 out of 120 over 550. A bit better but not a lot.

Looking at Dr. Dave's chart you could get the impression this type of player is middle of the road from a standpoint of the pool of all players but that seems not to be true.

This is the reality and I stand by taking the ghost over any 550 or below player especially on a nine foot diamond table.

tim
here is a rating list from dr dave

View attachment 702500
The highest I ever scored on the BU test after much effort was 124. At the same time my fargo has been right at 600 for years now with a couple thousand games in.

I must have a lot of shark moves that win me games that don't involve fundamentals.

This is only my personal experience but it gives me skepticism of the accuracy of Dave's chart.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
The 15 being absolutely frozen on the cushion which it appears to be is a huge factor in making this run out a little more difficult than it might seem. If you happen to leave a little too much angle going from the 13 in the lower side as your first shot to set up the 15, it’s going to make it harder to hold the proper angle for the 11 when pocketing the 15.

If you apply little inside when playing the 15 you run the risk falling close to straight in on the 11 which is trouble, or there’s the risk of getting a little too steep on the 11, which would still be better off than straight in, although it might eliminate the two rail high inside path to getting on the 14 next.
Yes, that would also be failing on the 13
 

Justaneng

Registered
The mean fargo rating in the bca league where I live is about 400. Out of 60 players playing this summer only 4 have a fargo rating above 550.

So to be fair I looked at a random BCA league in the seattle area where there are surely more good player and they had 10 out of 120 over 550. A bit better but not a lot.

Looking at Dr. Dave's chart you could get the impression this type of player is middle of the road from a standpoint of the pool of all players but that seems not to be true. A 550 is a very strong league player.

This is the reality and I stand by taking the ghost over any 550 or below player especially on a nine foot diamond table.

When a lot of people think "average", they tend to think of a normal distribution with a peak right at the 50-percentile and an equal number of (what would be) Fargo 0's and Fargo 830's. In reality pool skills are very heavily weighted at the lower ends depending on how you define a "pool player" If you average the skills of everyone who shoots more than 10 racks per month of pool or more, your average player is probably an APA-3 Fargo 300's type player.
 

Coos Cues

Coos Cues
@elyons @Cornerman @WobblyStroke Alright made a video. Weird talking and playing at same time :ROFLMAO:. This was 1st try. Setting it up was more difficult than running it lol

You make this runout look very easy but for most of us it's not so simple. You made a couple very precise position shots and a nice recovery off the 14 over run that would stop a huge percentage of players below your level.

I really like my ICA projector system for these type exercises as you're correct setting this up is tedious. More so for us who don't run it out most times and want to try it more because it's actually challenging. Doughnut rings are ok but with the projector you can bring this back up later at your leisure after marking the balls the first time and saving it.

I took one photo with my light off to better show the markings as it's hard to photograph what the eye sees with the light on but they are plenty visible. After you set them up you hit one key on the keyboard and it blanks the projector for your shooting, hit it again the projector instantly comes back on to set it back up again.
 

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easy-e

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The mean fargo rating in the bca league where I live is about 400. Out of 60 players playing this summer only 4 have a fargo rating above 550.

So to be fair I looked at a random BCA league in the seattle area where there are surely more good player and they had 10 out of 120 over 550. A bit better but not a lot.

Looking at Dr. Dave's chart you could get the impression this type of player is middle of the road from a standpoint of the pool of all players but that seems not to be true. A 550 is a very strong league player.

This is the reality and I stand by taking the ghost over any 550 or below player especially on a nine foot diamond table.
I'll go even bolder. I'll take the ghost against anyone 650 and below on a 9' Diamond table.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I set the balls up yesterday on my 9 ft Diamond. I shot 13,15,11,10,14 and the 8. Didn’t have an issue and I haven’t played in 3 months.
One time doesn’t tell us a whole lot. Try it 10 times in a row and see how many times you are successful running out. It should get easier the more you do it, but I would guess at least a few times you will encounter a problem.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
You make this runout look very easy but for most of us it's not so simple. You made a couple very precise position shots and a nice recovery off the 14 over run that would stop a huge percentage of players below your level.
Exactly... He over ran shape and although he had other easier options, he had to hit a solid recovery to maintain the designed pattern. Later on he was less than another 1/4 tip of inside from being snookered on the 8. You see the CB check up off the rail. Wouldn't have taken much more to be kicking at the 8. Without checking up the CB, the 8 would have been another solid cut to pot. Also, the spd was perfect to freeze up on the 3. ...and this is a +700 player on his home table. His fear of the 13 in the corner is entertaining. ;) Gatz's runout % is really strong. Although you can't argue his results. It isn't rare to see him recover with shot making.

That said, I totally agree with Gatz's pattern off the 11 being more forgiving then to rolling forward on to the 13, as I would play it. I understand why some don't agree with my take, and appreciate the point of view.

I did perform my version of the pattern a few times the other day. My security camera runs 24/7 but not entirely sure if it will go that far back. On my second attempt I missed the 8 ball from the 14. I'm still a tad weak with my left hand.
 

Coos Cues

Coos Cues
Having tried this many times the best run out for my skills is to start with the 14 in the far side with a little angle bringing the cue ball toward the busy end of the table.. Roll forward just a bit but not crossing the shot center line and shoot the 13 in the lower left corner. From here you are on the 15. Roll the cue ball forward to anywhere on the short rail and you have just enough angle to shoot the 11 and come naturally across off the rail with follow for the 10 in the close pocket. If you get straight on the 10 you stop whitey and shoot the 8 across from the short side. If you get an angle you draw it off the rail for the close pocket.

Why is this my most successful pattern? Two reasons. On my nine foot table I want to clear the straggler up table (14) to avoid having to take a longer shot on it later and get rid of what I consider the trouble ball (13) right out of the gate, and this keeps my cue ball close to all the rest of my shots as well. Willie Mosconi straight pool strategy, clear one end then work on the other. No up and back shots. Never had an issue in all my attempts going from the 14 in the side to the correct side of the 13 in the corner starting out nor missed either one of those balls. Even if I had over rolled the 13 in the corner I still have the 15 at that point. But that didn't happen.

8 ball is a game of moving the cue ball as little as possible IMO for greatest consistency and this pattern does that.

I will take on the ghost now but had I not really analysed this layout in relation to my skill set the ghost would have kicked my butt.
 

9BallKY

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One time doesn’t tell us a whole lot. Try it 10 times in a row and see how many times you are successful running out. It should get easier the more you do it, but I would guess at least a few times you will encounter a problem.
True however i would take this layout any day with bih
 

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Having tried this many times the best run out for my skills is to start with the 14 in the far side with a little angle bringing the cue ball toward the busy end of the table.. Roll forward just a bit but not crossing the shot center line and shoot the 13 in the lower left corner. From here you are on the 15. Roll the cue ball forward to anywhere on the short rail and you have just enough angle to shoot the 11 and come naturally across off the rail with follow for the 10 in the close pocket. If you get straight on the 10 you stop whitey and shoot the 8 across from the short side. If you get an angle you draw it off the rail for the close pocket.

Why is this my most successful pattern? Two reasons. On my nine foot table I want to clear the straggler up table (14) to avoid having to take a longer shot on it later and get rid of what I consider the trouble ball (13) right out of the gate, and this keeps my cue ball close to all the rest of my shots as well. Willie Mosconi straight pool strategy, clear one end then work on the other. No up and back shots. Never had an issue in all my attempts going from the 14 in the side to the correct side of the 13 in the corner starting out nor missed either one of those balls. Even if I had over rolled the 13 in the corner I still have the 15 at that point. But that didn't happen.

8 ball is a game of moving the cue ball as little as possible IMO for greatest consistency and this pattern does that.

I will take on the ghost now but had I not really analysed this layout in relation to my skill set the ghost would have kicked my butt.
Sounds like a good pattern but I would somewhat argue with the whole idea of "8 ball is a game of moving the cue ball as little as possible." I think this is generally true but often times there are patterns that are easier with more cue ball movement. I guess it all depends on the positional routes. I'll sometimes use a key ball that leaves a wide open 2 or 3 rail track that's hard to screw up. Sometimes taking what the table gives you is easier than trying to force a pattern because of minimal cue ball movement or some other rule of thumb you're trying to force onto the table. As an example, you could have a potential key ball that's close to the 8, but difficult to get on if you wait until the end of the rack. Or another option could be having a pattern that takes you to a key ball on the opposite side of the table to the 8, but with a wide open route to the 8.

Guess I think that's the difference between 14.1 and 8 ball. In 8 ball you can use cue ball movement a bit more strategically to get around all the blocking balls, while in 14.1 you just pluck them off the table instead.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
I want to clear the straggler up table (14) to avoid having to take a longer shot on it later...<snip>
I understand that approach and it's something preached by top players and coaches. However, so is the notion of the "insurance" ball. That's how I view the 14 in this rack. Not saying your approach is wrong at all. Just that you're opting to shoot first what I consider the fall back if something goes badly.
</snip>...and get rid of what I consider the trouble ball (13) right out of the gate, and this keeps my cue ball close to all the rest of my shots as well.
I think here is where I believe my opinion differs from most. I don't necessarily see the 13 as a problem. At least not as potentially problematic as the 11 and certainly not as important as clearing out the 15. I've become pretty adept at rolling shots, so the transition from 15 to 11 and finally the 13 in the corner comes very naturally for me. That said, I'm not beyond admitting that if I was playing on <4" pockets, I would reconsider the long pot on the 13.
Willie Mosconi straight pool strategy, clear one end then work on the other. No up and back shots.
This is a strategy I've never subscribed to. Not that I think Willie was wrong in his thinking. I just prefer to have the safety net of open shots up table. If they are easy to access that is. If we hand placed the 14 in a position at either of the 2 top corners so effort would have to be made to miss it. Would it still be your first shot...? ...or would you shoot the 13 with BIH to line up for the 15?
8 ball is a game of moving the cue ball as little as possible IMO for greatest consistency and this pattern does that.
I think everyone would agree that 8 ball is a game of identifying and managing problematic situations. Whether it be a rouge ball in a bad spot, or the typical clusters. Simplifying is of course a major bonus, but not the primary concern.

I develop patterns with a primary focus to avoid 'trick shots'. A trick shot is anything that makes the CB do something other than follow a natural path after contact with the OB. My pattern of 15,11,13,10,14 almost does that entirely. 95% of the time the 10 is a stop shot at the very least. However I've been burnt enough by inconsistent table cloth to fear a 'stop shot' becoming one with forward roll. Because of the ease the pot on the 14 presents and the near impossibility I have of not having a very good shot on the 8b afterward. I opt to hit the 10 with draw and the 'soft' goal of reaching center table. I end up rolling the CB two more times and avoid potential pitfalls.
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
Check this thread out. It seems the majority of people think it takes a solid 650 to play even with the 9 ball ghost. I know it won't change your mind, but it's interesting reading. https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/fargo-and-the-ghost.536939/
I remember that thread well. Im even one of the guys thinking about 650FR plays the 9b ghost even.
I also think that this particular run is way easier than playing the 9b ghost even.

edit: Im not in that thread. was remembering the 'scratch' level for pool players which ended up being about the level it takes to beat the 9b ghost. nearly same convo, diff thread.
 
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Coos Cues

Coos Cues
If we hand placed the 14 in a position at either of the 2 top corners so effort would have to be made to miss it. Would it still be your first shot...? ...or would you shoot the 13 with BIH to line up for the 15?
If the 14 is all by itself up there right by a pocket with only 2 potential blockers I would save it for my key ball
 

easy-e

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I remember that thread well. Im even one of the guys thinking about 650FR plays the 9b ghost even.
I also think that this particular run is way easier than playing the 9b ghost even.

edit: Im not in that thread. was remembering the 'scratch' level for pool players which ended up being about the level it takes to beat the 9b ghost. nearly same convo, diff thread.
I may have been confused. Were you only talking about the set up int he OP? Or were you talking about beating the ghost in general?
 
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