Say you invented a nice jig or machine but is easily copyable b/c it's really simple to make and gives what's out there the 7-out.
Would you patent it or just die with it.
Would you patent it or just die with it.
What;s worth getting a patent in this business?
- Thread starter JoeyInCali
- Start date
You can patten it tomorrow and I can copy it the next day as long as I make 1 improvement on it like softer grip handles or an adjustable thingy that you mde permanent and I made adjustable for what who cares itsa adjustable....
There's alittle more to it take chance only $10,000 to patten it...I think doing all three is the way to go patten, trademark both nationaly and internationaly and registered. these its not a total loss you might by able to sue some one if you do it right..
Craig
There's alittle more to it take chance only $10,000 to patten it...I think doing all three is the way to go patten, trademark both nationaly and internationaly and registered. these its not a total loss you might by able to sue some one if you do it right..
Craig
K, definitely not worth it then.n10spool said:
I'll just get them made in Bangladesh and sell em.
Patent the idea behind it, not just the item itself. I personaly think it would be worth it if you could sell enough of them, or sell the idea to a manufacturer who with out the patent would have copied you almost outright.
If I invented a nice jig or machine, I'll just dei with itJoeyInCali said:Say you invented a nice jig or machine but is easily copyable b/c it's really simple to make and gives what's out there the 7-out.
Would you patent it or just die with it.
or just share with few cuemaker friends
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A change to a patented item may still fall within the scope of the patent claims. It all boils down to the breadth of the claims. If I have a patent on a ?bicycle?, and you build a bicycle with fancy handle grips and a horn, it?s still a bicycle and would infringe my patent. The real problem is how to enforce it. If you only built one for your personal use, I can sue you for damages. But, what are the damages? Perhaps it?s the profit I would have gained if you had bought the bicycle from me. Maybe I could go for an injunction to stop you from using your bicycle. If you think the cost of getting a patent is expensive, you haven?t litigated one.
To comment on an earlier post, importing a U.S. patented item into the U.S. is an act of infringement.
To comment on an earlier post, importing a U.S. patented item into the U.S. is an act of infringement.
That could be true of registered design or copyright. A patent is an idea, like a crankshaft for a steam engine. That is why there are so many steam engines that use a variety of ways to try and create rotation. Because the crankshaft was patented and you needed a license agreement to incorporate this in you're engine. Patents last up to 25 years in some counties and it cost to keep it alive. So if it is not viable it usually dies or goes undiscovered for some years.Registered design relates to your design of what ever it is. It could be a bottle for cue slick. To get around it , it needs to be %10 different. If the shape is the same but scaled that will not do. But a minor shape change and you are good to go.n10spool said:
patents
I have a friend who has a new tool coming out, and the two patents [ US, and International], will cost around $60K, yep, 60 big ones, but it's worth it.....Check with your "PATCH", [we called attorney's that way back], first. Then make your move..
blud
Joey, I have invented several differant type machines and jigs over the years. Some have patents, some not.. There's no need to patent something if you don't have plenty of doug-ra-me to pay out the ass to protect it. If it's a great one, and it will make you plenty of dough, apply for the patent, and go from there. Never take someone's advice about placing your drawings in an envlope and mail them to yourself. Bull Crap, if it's worth it, get a great patent attorney....JoeyInCali said:Say you invented a nice jig or machine but is easily copyable b/c it's really simple to make and gives what's out there the 7-out.
Would you patent it or just die with it.
I have a friend who has a new tool coming out, and the two patents [ US, and International], will cost around $60K, yep, 60 big ones, but it's worth it.....Check with your "PATCH", [we called attorney's that way back], first. Then make your move..
blud
60 big ones?blud said:
Checking with a patch right now.
My early guess? Not worth it.
With Ebay and shipping goodies from China?
Good luck to your friend.
Build it and take it to the market and make a little money off of it before someone copies it. Build it for a price that is low enough that most won't take the time to copy it. Give good enough customer service with your product that they can see the added value of that support. Keep your $10,000 instead of giving it to attorneys and patent office and invest it in the next project. My logic is unless it is a very high volume selling item, the $10,000 saved can be passed on to lower price which makes it more appealing. If you patent it and charge higher price and it is easy to make, although people may not make them to sell they will still make one for themselves. Many on here have admitted to copying my fixtures and jigs at times. Some even buy parts from me to do so. That is one reason I don't post pictures of everything I sell. They are at least gonna have to buy the DVD to get a good look at my jigs and such. Some are gracious enough to tell me how they improved this or that on them and I will sometimes incorporate that into futures products. Unless your invention will make you hundreds of thousands of dollars, patents in this business are just about a waste of time and money.
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If it involves Cue making do what should be done with it, Lock it up. There's more than enough to get people started and in trouble quick already. And if you haven't noticed by now, things seem to get modified quick and resold on this forum.
Chris' advise is sound. Low volume products have a hard time recouping the patenting cost. Blud is mostly right about price. An average U.S. patent (~25 pages) will cost you around $10 in patent office fees and attorney fees. Outside the U.S. there are over 130 countries available for patenting. The cost is dependent on how many of them you want to get a patent. Adequate European coverage (Germany, UK, Spain, Italy, France + about 4-5 more) will cost you in the neighborhood of $120K. Let's not forget Asia. South Korea alone can cost you $25K once you include a translation.
For inventions in this industry, I won?t go as far as call them a waste of time and money, but I would have a hard time recommending patenting outside the U.S. One advantage of filing a patent application is that you can place ?Patent Pending? on your product. That serves as a warning to others who may want to copy. But, since patent infringement is not criminal, you?ll have to take the effort to enforce it. Not an easy task, and not cheap.
Using a semi-trade secret approach like Chris does is probably your best bet on low volume jigs and machinery. It won't stop the individual from copying for himself, but if someone wants to compete with you in the market place, they may never gain your full know-how, making them a poor competitor.
If, however, you are dead set on getting a patent, check with your state bar association. Some states have intellectual property organizations. These groups will frequently offer some pro bono consultation. In most instances, they will teach you a bit about patenting and send you to the most cost efficient firm to help. If you are lucky, you might find someone who will guide you through the torturous process of patenting it yourself. That way, it will only cost you patent office fees.
For inventions in this industry, I won?t go as far as call them a waste of time and money, but I would have a hard time recommending patenting outside the U.S. One advantage of filing a patent application is that you can place ?Patent Pending? on your product. That serves as a warning to others who may want to copy. But, since patent infringement is not criminal, you?ll have to take the effort to enforce it. Not an easy task, and not cheap.
Using a semi-trade secret approach like Chris does is probably your best bet on low volume jigs and machinery. It won't stop the individual from copying for himself, but if someone wants to compete with you in the market place, they may never gain your full know-how, making them a poor competitor.
If, however, you are dead set on getting a patent, check with your state bar association. Some states have intellectual property organizations. These groups will frequently offer some pro bono consultation. In most instances, they will teach you a bit about patenting and send you to the most cost efficient firm to help. If you are lucky, you might find someone who will guide you through the torturous process of patenting it yourself. That way, it will only cost you patent office fees.
I just reread Blud?s comment on not mailing yourself drawings. I?m not sure where that ever came from, but the idea of that was to prove the date of invention. It?s a poor way of doing it. If there is some concern of who invented something and when, the preferred way is to have someone witness it. Many inventors keep a notebook or sketch book of their inventions. Sign and date each page. Then, have someone else also sign and date it. This is how laboratory notebooks are kept in the drug and electronic industry. Be cautious to whom you share the invention. Public awareness of the invention can hamper the patenting process in the U.S. and completely destroy it ex-U.S.
Does that mean nobody can copy it?WilleeCue said: