I believe he is pulling someones leg.
What size tip for a C or D player
- Thread starter I Got Lucky
- Start date
I believe he is pulling someones leg.
Just change it to whatever you want.
Since I basically made it all up, you can edit my matrix up or down because I've
loaned or sold cues to players of every skill level, and the "tip size" seems to have
little to do with what everybody likes to play with.
One exception seems to be that lower ranked players always liked to play with my
old Meucci PP-3, 12.0 red dot shaft...go figure.
Well, if he's going to buy a cue, he may as well know a bit about the differences & perhaps go in the middle if he's not sure what direction he wants to go. I find it a bit odd that non custom cue makers & shaft makers don't offer a 12.25 mm option.
Like I said, to think a difference makes no difference is irrational. That is not to say that one can not play well with either extreme.
As to the Neil thing, I'll just say I wish it were not so & I wish him well.
But yet you will continue to bait me using ridiculous extreme examples that no one in the real world that would be concerned about it even uses. And continue to call me names. You must just love being contrary to common sense.
Tip size is a personal preference. Hence why the likes of Meucci, Predator, OB and so on all offer different sized tip choices. If it were the case that a certain sized tip helped a certain skilled player you better believe Predator would bring out the A-D named shafts....then a few months later the A-D squared shafts.
Personally I like an 11mm, maybe a smidge under that. Mostly because I like seeing more of the cue ball, use an open bridge on the vast majority of shots and like the taper that comes with it. You can generate stupid amounts of spin with a cue that size and whilst a poorly made shaft of this tip diameter can feel week and as though it will break eventually, a well made shaft like the one I play with will feel solid and sturdy and no matter how hard you hit them wont let you down. So again, I'm one of a handful that choose to use a tip of this size on here, its all personal preference.
There are far more pressing matters at hand for C/D players and what tip size to use isn't one of them.
Personally I like an 11mm, maybe a smidge under that. Mostly because I like seeing more of the cue ball, use an open bridge on the vast majority of shots and like the taper that comes with it. You can generate stupid amounts of spin with a cue that size and whilst a poorly made shaft of this tip diameter can feel week and as though it will break eventually, a well made shaft like the one I play with will feel solid and sturdy and no matter how hard you hit them wont let you down. So again, I'm one of a handful that choose to use a tip of this size on here, its all personal preference.
There are far more pressing matters at hand for C/D players and what tip size to use isn't one of them.
I'd rate myself as a solid B player, with just enough occasional moments of creative genius and cueing greatness to keep me coming back for more...
Thinking back to when I first started playing "seriously," I faced the same question. We all did, didn' we? When I decided to by my first "keeper" cue, I bought it direct from McDermott and my primary concern was that the cue be 60" and come with two shafts. I had been playing with several different diameters beforehand and, for some reason didn't bother (or know enough) to specify the diameter I wanted, As a result, they ended up shipping my cue with two tree trunk 13.5mm shafts. One of the shafts is still the original 13.5mm size, but my primary playing shaft got turned down to 12.4mm almost right away. I knew from the first hit that 13.5mm was too big for my liking.
Now that I finally have a pool table in my house, that has given me sufficient cause to rationalize buying, and thus playing with, more cues... Since experimenting more and more with different cue diameters I've found my comfort zone to be in the 12.1mm to 12.5mm range.
In fact, earlier tonight I was first practicing 9-ball and then switched to straight pool. I had been using a cue with 13mm tip when practicing 9-ball, and when I made the switch to 14.1 practice, I kept playing with it for the break ball shot and few shots afterwards. However, when the cue ball ended up in the middle of a cluster of object balls, I instinctively reached for one of my cues that has a 12.1mm tip and I started to tighten up my play. Finished the session with the 2nd, thinner tipped cue.
Personally, I do believe larger diameter tips to be more forgiving, and ultimately a better choice for games like 9-ball and 8-ball, where play tends to be more loose and you are occasionally letting out your stroke. And while there might not acutally be a significant "contact patch" size difference between the thick vs. thin diameter shaft as some have discussed in this thread, I do think a smaller diameter will let you see more of the cue ball when aiming during your shot, which translates to more precise tip contact placement on the cue ball. As such, it will also accentuate and exaggerate a mishit in the form of too much or too little english.
My recommendation to the OP is to buy a 13mm shaft and start from there. Then consider having it turned down if it starts to feel "fat" to you. Just make sure you get one that has nice, straight and tight wood grain. In the meantime, work on your game and take an interest in some of your playing partners' cues. Try some different diameters as you get better and see if you develop a preference. As another poster said, you can't add wood, but you can remove it. Just keep in mind that as you take away wood from the shaft, you change the balance point and the flex characteristics of the shaft. Depending on how tight the grain of the wood in the shaft is, you could end up turning a firm hitting shaft into a whippy one...
Thinking back to when I first started playing "seriously," I faced the same question. We all did, didn' we? When I decided to by my first "keeper" cue, I bought it direct from McDermott and my primary concern was that the cue be 60" and come with two shafts. I had been playing with several different diameters beforehand and, for some reason didn't bother (or know enough) to specify the diameter I wanted, As a result, they ended up shipping my cue with two tree trunk 13.5mm shafts. One of the shafts is still the original 13.5mm size, but my primary playing shaft got turned down to 12.4mm almost right away. I knew from the first hit that 13.5mm was too big for my liking.
Now that I finally have a pool table in my house, that has given me sufficient cause to rationalize buying, and thus playing with, more cues... Since experimenting more and more with different cue diameters I've found my comfort zone to be in the 12.1mm to 12.5mm range.
In fact, earlier tonight I was first practicing 9-ball and then switched to straight pool. I had been using a cue with 13mm tip when practicing 9-ball, and when I made the switch to 14.1 practice, I kept playing with it for the break ball shot and few shots afterwards. However, when the cue ball ended up in the middle of a cluster of object balls, I instinctively reached for one of my cues that has a 12.1mm tip and I started to tighten up my play. Finished the session with the 2nd, thinner tipped cue.
Personally, I do believe larger diameter tips to be more forgiving, and ultimately a better choice for games like 9-ball and 8-ball, where play tends to be more loose and you are occasionally letting out your stroke. And while there might not acutally be a significant "contact patch" size difference between the thick vs. thin diameter shaft as some have discussed in this thread, I do think a smaller diameter will let you see more of the cue ball when aiming during your shot, which translates to more precise tip contact placement on the cue ball. As such, it will also accentuate and exaggerate a mishit in the form of too much or too little english.
My recommendation to the OP is to buy a 13mm shaft and start from there. Then consider having it turned down if it starts to feel "fat" to you. Just make sure you get one that has nice, straight and tight wood grain. In the meantime, work on your game and take an interest in some of your playing partners' cues. Try some different diameters as you get better and see if you develop a preference. As another poster said, you can't add wood, but you can remove it. Just keep in mind that as you take away wood from the shaft, you change the balance point and the flex characteristics of the shaft. Depending on how tight the grain of the wood in the shaft is, you could end up turning a firm hitting shaft into a whippy one...
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I am going to suggest the new Vantage shaft from Predator. It is going to be released in a couple of weeks. I have one on my new Predator 8K-4 and it plays awesome.
It has a 12.9mm shaft. One thing people keep saying is that the smaller tip diameter will give you more spin on the cue ball. I am going to disagree. This 12.9mm shaft puts way more spin and less deflection than my Meucci with a pro shaft or black dot shaft. Both of them have way smaller shafts.
I think Predator hit a home run with this shaft. It is forgiving for newer players and still puts a lot of english on the cue ball. I would recommend waiting a couple of weeks and getting this shaft with one of the 8K model sticks.
http://www.predatorcues.com/shafts/vantage-shaft/
It has a 12.9mm shaft. One thing people keep saying is that the smaller tip diameter will give you more spin on the cue ball. I am going to disagree. This 12.9mm shaft puts way more spin and less deflection than my Meucci with a pro shaft or black dot shaft. Both of them have way smaller shafts.
I think Predator hit a home run with this shaft. It is forgiving for newer players and still puts a lot of english on the cue ball. I would recommend waiting a couple of weeks and getting this shaft with one of the 8K model sticks.
http://www.predatorcues.com/shafts/vantage-shaft/
But yet you will continue to bait me using ridiculous extreme examples that no one in the real world that would be concerned about it even uses. And continue to call me names. You must just love being contrary to common sense.
You're entitled to your opinions just as everyone that reads our posts are entitled to theirs.
Again, May God Bless You, Neil.
I guess I'll make a comment here.
First of all within reason tip diameter has nothing to do with amounts of applied spin. Only exceptionally large diameters like
>14mm will draw shots be affected. The table gets in the way. As far as patch size, its well known and only makes sense that
given the same tip radius,and tip hardness, patch size is the same for all diameters. A very soft tip probably is larger since
it compresses more. I think I remember there's also very little difference in applied spin vs tip hardness and surprising to most,
the harder tips come out better although not enough to make significant difference in practice.
Considering "D" players, their stroke is so squirrely that a 13mm shaft probably will reduce miscues. These players rarely hit the
intended spot on the CB. Standard 13mm is what I'd say is the answer for the question for the reason of fewer miscues, due entirely
to the fact that these "D"strokes are inaccurate. Has nothing to do with patch size. The forgiveness with a larger tip simply comes from
the fact of using a larger bullet to come closer to hitting a small target.
As Bob Jewett mentions low deflection shafts may help but I believe he's saying it will help in pocketing for a beginner. I believe most
of these shafts are <13mm. But they are probably close enough. 12.75mm so maybe he's saying its the best of both worlds.
Final analysis, the "D" player should simply find a cue they think they'll enjoy playing with and can afford and simply take what diameter
comes along. Not worry about finding that perfect combination for life. Get past "C" level then you will know more what you like.
More simply said, don't worry about this stuff, Its not important yet. There's so much more to worry about. Years more.
First of all within reason tip diameter has nothing to do with amounts of applied spin. Only exceptionally large diameters like
>14mm will draw shots be affected. The table gets in the way. As far as patch size, its well known and only makes sense that
given the same tip radius,and tip hardness, patch size is the same for all diameters. A very soft tip probably is larger since
it compresses more. I think I remember there's also very little difference in applied spin vs tip hardness and surprising to most,
the harder tips come out better although not enough to make significant difference in practice.
Considering "D" players, their stroke is so squirrely that a 13mm shaft probably will reduce miscues. These players rarely hit the
intended spot on the CB. Standard 13mm is what I'd say is the answer for the question for the reason of fewer miscues, due entirely
to the fact that these "D"strokes are inaccurate. Has nothing to do with patch size. The forgiveness with a larger tip simply comes from
the fact of using a larger bullet to come closer to hitting a small target.
As Bob Jewett mentions low deflection shafts may help but I believe he's saying it will help in pocketing for a beginner. I believe most
of these shafts are <13mm. But they are probably close enough. 12.75mm so maybe he's saying its the best of both worlds.
Final analysis, the "D" player should simply find a cue they think they'll enjoy playing with and can afford and simply take what diameter
comes along. Not worry about finding that perfect combination for life. Get past "C" level then you will know more what you like.
More simply said, don't worry about this stuff, Its not important yet. There's so much more to worry about. Years more.
Sorry Rick, but Neil is correct. The Jacksonville Project proved that the size of the contact patch between tip and CB is 3mm or 1/8". That doesn't change regardless of where you hit on the tip, how hard or soft you shoot, or other variables. Even when you break and there's a big blue dot on the CB, that's chalk dust blowback. The contact is still 3mm. But then you prefer to "argue" your "opinion" regardless of the facts.
To the OP...To keep the thread on track...it doesn't matter what size tip you play with. Try different sizes and pick what you like best.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
To the OP...To keep the thread on track...it doesn't matter what size tip you play with. Try different sizes and pick what you like best.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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Mostly I was trying to say that the amount of squirt the cue has will be far more important to the player than the actual diameter of the tip when he starts to use side spin and work english into his game.
My general feeling about getting a first cue is that unless you know what you want/need pretty well, you are better off sticking with house cues if the house cues where you play are in reasonable condition. If you pick a personal cue without that knowledge, you may well end up with one that will cripple your learning.
It's nice for beginners if the house cues have a fair amount of variation in weight, length and diameter so they can try different types of cues. What would be really nice for choosing a first cue is a kit with interchangeable shafts, butts and weights so you could build your own and try a lot of different variations.
If you wanna shoot like a C/D player, I would strongly recommend getting a tip the size of a golf ball. You won't be able to draw a lick, your accuracy will go down to shit and nobody will know your true speed ever again. I also recommend getting a five pound cue, or heavier so you can truly be a banger.
I agree with you. Everyone should play with whatever tip they like best.
Some 'facts' of yesteryear are no longer facts today. I doubt you could find many that still think the world is flat. I know, I know, that is not a fair comparison.
Would you suggest that a beginner try to play in a league with team mates using a 9mm cue?
Early Merry Christmas,
Rick
I can go with this including the house cue recommendation but usually a beginning player wants their own cue and I have to accept that. I was once there.
After 40 years of playing I wouldn't be able to go to a custom cue builder and tell them 100% every aspect I demand in a cue. Some of it I'll have to leave to the builder. That's why I say or rather meant, choose a cue brand or builder if you have the money, and let them do the rest. I certainly wouldn't recommend going with a cue from Sports Authority. That choice I'll agree will be a challenge.
One thing I do demand from a cue builder is that the cue I buy never misses.:wink:
Scott:
I believe what is being said about contact patch. However, thinner shafts usually accompany smaller tips. It's my opinion that pocketing should be a focus point for beginner players and they will make more balls consistently with a 13mm shaft vs. a 11.75mm. Something about the thinner shaft does have an affect on the stroke, english and pocketing.
Can you provide more info or a link about the Jacksonville Project ?