what speed should beat the ghost?

TATE said:
It depends on the table.

With tight, 4" corners and simonis, I think a good "A" player/shortstop has an edge on the ghost but it's close. Pro beats the ghost almost all the time, and B has little or no chance.

On sloppy equipment, A's beat ghost most of the time and B sometimes.

Chris
Click to expand...

Exactly. I play equal offense a lot, I do better on a smaller table than I do on the 9' in my basement.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Then don't refer to them as A, B etc. Instead start referring to players as 400 or 700 if they can beat the ghost 40% or 70% of the time. That way everyone will know exactly what you mean (within table variations and different sets of ghost rules, of course).

Is there any 800 player? Where I play, I don't think anyone is an 800 on the front table.
Click to expand...

For example, on the 800 player I assume you mean beat the ghost in races 80% of the time, as opposed to winning 80% of the games?

Chris
 
When I just toss 9 balls across the table not creating any bad clusters, I can run out about 30-40% of the time starting with ball in hand. Slightly lower than that with real ghost using the break. Perhaps I could do more, but get this: when not counting and not thinking about the score, I'm almost certain that my percentage rises above 50%.

At my present level I couldn't beat the real 9ball ghost using the break, etc. Time that I would use on racking the balls I rather spend on shooting them.
 
hmm, interesting thread, kinda remembered the way we used the ghost as a scorecard, like in golf. these are actual stats i borrowed from a friend that used to run the tournaments in our poolhall.

pros - 80% - 90%
ss - 70% -79%
a - 50% - 69%
b - 20% - 49%
c - 5% - 19%
d - 1% - 4% (sent home crying by the ghost)

i've heard that efren could beat the ghost about 82-83% of the time. that's kinda low for a top pro, isn't it?
 
To beat the ghost, you can't miss more than 6 times in a race to 7, 8 times in a race to 9, 10 times in a race to 11, etc. I would say that in an average match, top pros miss 2-3 times in a race to 11. If you are beating the ghost with scores of 11-3 or 11-4, that's world class speed.
 
royuco77 said:
i've heard that efren could beat the ghost about 82-83% of the time. that's kinda low for a top pro, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Nope. He runs out over 80% of racks after the break and taking the ball in hand. On average. Perhaps he has better days, but that is mighty strong. Certainly more than good enough to whip the 9ball ghost every single time.
 
Playing the ghost

I go with Celtic above, on an 8 footer with 4.5" pockets. When you move up to a larger table with tighter pockets, it all changes. A "B" player would hardly have a chance on the bigger table, and an "A" player would probably be happy with winning 50% of the time.
 
NaClBandit said:
As the last one to ask this question, I feel obligated to pass along the answer.

Rack a game of 9-ball (or 8, 10, 15-ball for that matter...not so much 8 though) and break. Take ball-in-hand and attempt to run out. If you run out, YOU WIN, score 1 for you. If you don't run out, YOU LOSE, score 1 for Casper. Scratching on the break is a loss.

Play a race just as if you're playing a real opponent.
Click to expand...


What about safeties, I mean when I play a real opponent, I don't always go for the run out, I play safe too :confused: ???

Honestly don't know.

Pete
 
that might be a break and run percentage by the rack, but there's no way it's for playing the ghost in a race to 7. I agree with the other posters that C/D players have 0.000000% chance to beat the ghost in a race to 7.

royuco77 said:
hmm, interesting thread, kinda remembered the way we used the ghost as a scorecard, like in golf. these are actual stats i borrowed from a friend that used to run the tournaments in our poolhall.

pros - 80% - 90%
ss - 70% -79%
a - 50% - 69%
b - 20% - 49%
c - 5% - 19%
d - 1% - 4% (sent home crying by the ghost)

i've heard that efren could beat the ghost about 82-83% of the time. that's kinda low for a top pro, isn't it?
Click to expand...
 
Considering most folks are big underdogs against the ghost on a 9 footer, how about considering it the other way round?

WHICH ghost should players at lower levels be able to beat? I'll throw this out fwiw:

B player, 7 ball
C/C+, 6 ball
D+, 4 ball
D, 3 ball
 
Nostroke said:
I think Allen Hopkins and someone else tried to get an objective rating system going about 6-7 years ago. I think Allen was second with his. You tried to break and run a rack 10 times and then were assigned a number ranking based on you average. Anyway it is a futile effort IMHO because of stall artists and also due to the super rapid improvement of some- especially the 'kids'.
Click to expand...

I git this on line, and I'm presently in the first session (and I suck).
How To Play: Nine-Ball Q-Skill is a lot like regular 9-Ball, but you must spot the nine ball if you pocket it, and you get two innings to run out the rack, starting with ball in hand each inning:
9-Ball Q-Skill is played with a regular 9-Ball rack. Rack a regular nine-ball rack with the one ball on the foot spot and the nine ball in the middle.
Break the balls from any cue ball location behind the head string. All balls pocketed on the break stay down except for the nine ball, which is respotted on the foot spot.
Begin your first inning with ball in hand anywhere on the table, shooting at the lowest numbered ball on the table and running the balls out in rotation. Your first inning continues until you run out, miss, foul or scratch.
After your first miss, foul or scratch, the second inning of the rack begins. Start the second inning with ball in hand, shooting at the lowest numbered ball on the table and running the remainder of the rack out in rotation. The second inning continues until you run out, miss, foul or scratch.
The nine ball may be pocketed at any time during an inning by executing a legal shot. However, if the nine ball is pocketed before it is the last ball on the table, it counts towards bonus points only. The nine ball is respotted on the foot spot, then the inning continues from where the cue ball came to rest.
At the conclusion of the second inning, your turn at that rack is over and should be scored.
Scoring:
(+2) All balls pocketed on the break and during the first inning count two points.
(+1) All balls pocketed during the second inning count one point.
Bonus points:
(+2) Making the nine ball on the break or at anytime during the first inning is a bonus of two points.
(+1) Making the nine ball at any time during the second inning is a bonus of one point.
*Bonus points are only awarded for one nine ball pocketed per rack. That is, if you make the nine ball on the break, re-spot it on the foot spot and then run out, your total bonus points are still two.
Scoring Penalties:
(-2) If the cue ball leaves the table on the break, or at any time during the game, deduct two points.
(-1) On the break, if you miscue or miss the cue ball or rack completely, it is a foul, and results in deducting one point from your score. You have the option to re-rack and break the balls again, or play the rack out.
(-1) If you otherwise scratch on the break, deduct one point.
(-1) All scratches and fouls result in a one point deduction. Balls pocketed on a scratch or foul are re-spotted on the foot spot and do not count towards that inning’s score.

The most you can score in one rack is twenty points, by running nine balls from the break in your first inning (9 x 2 = 18, + 2 for the nine ball = 20).
Another example: If you made a ball on the break and then ran 6 balls in the first inning and the remaining three balls in the second inning, your score would be 6 x 2 = 12 + 3 x 1 = 3 + 1 for the nine ball in the second inning = 16).
After scoring the rack, begin again with a full nine ball rack with the one on the foot spot.
Ten racks comprise a session. In one session, you can score a maximum of 200 points.
The score from ten sessions (100 racks) determines your rating. The highest possible rating is a perfect score of 2,000 points.
Because the scoring is similar to the Allen Hopkins system (the maximum points that can be scored each rack is twenty), the Q-Skill levels of play guidelines may still be appropriate and should be used for Nine-Ball Q-Skill.
Allen Hopkins scoring guidelines for your level of play are:
0 - 300 -
301-600 -
601-900 -
901-1200 -
1201-1600 -
1601-1800 -
1801-2000 - - Recreational player
- Intermediate player
- Advanced player
- Developing Pro
- Semi-pro
- Professional
- Touring professional


Pete
 
Egg McDogit said:
what speed should you be to beat the ghost approximately x% of the time in a race to 7? What speed should you be to have a chance to beat the ghost? And what's the mimimum speed you should be to be supposed to beat the ghost?
:
Click to expand...

Not all ghosts are equal. Top pros tend to play against weak ghosts. My ghost, on the other hand, plays at least at SS speed and has been known to put six packs on me.

mike page
fargo
 
mikepage said:
Not all ghosts are equal. Top pros tend to play against weak ghosts. My ghost, on the other hand, plays at least at SS speed and has been known to put six packs on me.

mike page
fargo
Click to expand...

Your ghost doesn't spot you the break?! That's harsh!!
 
Cane said:
An "A" or better player should beat the ghost regularly, and should consider playing the ghost "6 ahead" instead of a race to 7. Much harder to win this one!
Click to expand...

Are you saying it's easier for a good player to beat the ghost in a race to 7 then it is 6 ahead?....If so, I think you are wrong and good players on this forum would probably agree with me. In playing a "race" set...funny things can happen such as balls tied up, and clustered together where the ghost can shit out and win the race. Sort of like a weaker player beating the better player in short races. When playing an "ahead" set, the ghost or the weaker player, will virtually never beat the better player. Just my 2 cents.
 
Casper

I'm a pretty decent B player so next time I practice I'll play Casper a few sets and see how I do. If I get whipped each time, then I'll have a pretty good idea of what a B player's percentage would be.
 
royuco77 said:
hmm, interesting thread, kinda remembered the way we used the ghost as a scorecard, like in golf. these are actual stats i borrowed from a friend that used to run the tournaments in our poolhall.

pros - 80% - 90%
ss - 70% -79%
a - 50% - 69%
b - 20% - 49%
c - 5% - 19%
d - 1% - 4% (sent home crying by the ghost)

i've heard that efren could beat the ghost about 82-83% of the time. that's kinda low for a top pro, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Efren beats the 15 ball rotation GHOST, sometimes LEFT HANDED. What makes you think he could never beat the 9-ball ghost? LOL
 
TATE said:
For example, on the 800 player I assume you mean beat the ghost in races 80% of the time, as opposed to winning 80% of the games?

Chris
Click to expand...
No, I actually mean win 80% of the games. That way length of the race is not a factor. It's much harder to beat Earl playing to 120 than it is playing to 2, unless you are better than Earl. Then it's much easier to win playing to 120 -- just ask Efren.
 
i'd bet against a "b" playing the ghost.


Cane said:
A "C" player should have a chance to beat the ghost on occasion, but not on a regular basis. He should be happy when he beats the ghost.

A "B" player should beat the ghost a pretty good percentage of the time. When he loses, it should be close.

An "A" or better player should beat the ghost regularly, and should consider playing the ghost "6 ahead" instead of a race to 7. Much harder to win this one!

just my 2 cents,

Bob
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top