what to do 1pocket

This exact shot has been floating around 1P.org for several days now. The majority of the seasoned players are 2 railing the 15.
Myself, I agree, you would have to put a gun to my head to KEEP me from shooting the 15, 2 rails. If I can't hit it good enough to give my opponent a problem, I don't deserve to win (and I ain't gonna scratch twice across either, Billy ;) )
My opponent is going to be shooting from on (or very close to) the rail, and I would be hoping he shoots at the 8 ball.

A 2-3 rail kick at the 8 would be a distant second choice for me.

Dick <---likes offensive, low risk shots.
 
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Agree here - But make note that lost in the writing of Billy Incardona's statement, isPROBABLY the vocal peak he so eloquently uses behind the booth to key us in that that shot in a different context MAY be the shot, so mark it in the memory banks.

My earlier suggested shot is what I play all day long, the 2-railer I shoot if I am playing a weaker player, the kick I shoot never. You can kick there more ways than the 3 railer. You have a better chance of (WRONG SHOT!!) two railing headrail-siderail into the stack!!!!

The only way the kick is the shot is if there is a cluster blocking the return bank.

Lets see who is smart enough to move THE FEWEST BALLS ON THE LAYOUT to make the 3 rail kick the right shot....
 
td873 said:
Nice! Calling out a 1 pocket legend on the internet! Intesting that you would insinuate that his suggested shot is so bad that he needs a $100 shoot off to prove it's a good choice. eek. As I understand it, he has played the game once or twice, so I wouldn't dismiss his suggestion so lightly.

I'm not sure he would shoot proposition shots for $100, but I would venture to say he would take you up at $100 a game though.

-td
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are you saying wincardona is Bill Incardona? even if it isn't the guys probably got thick enough skin that he's not going to be offended by someone thinking his shot isn't a good one.

if anything it's a chance for him to make a quick hundred. i'm betting wcardona has spent enough time in a pool hall that this kind of "oh yeah well bet 100" talk isn't bothering him
 
dabarbr said:
I think I would kick around the stack two rails to the eight, making sure that I do not go long. If I fall short and do not contact the eight first it's ok. If I lose a ball so be it.

My main objective to to minimize his chances of getting me back to the other side of the stack.
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I think kicking it soft and trying to freeze under the 8 is worth the foul. (Meaning shooting it soft freeze speed increases the chance of fouling but also u can hit it and be perfect as well.)
 
wincardona said:
The kick as shown in post 87 is not the correct angle as described. After the cue ball departs the second rail it barely misses the four ball
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It's often hard to tell with these diagrams showing such an unfamiliar view, but the actual path is about like this, not very close to the 4.

CueTable Help



If you can't set the shot up and shoot it, an easy way to estimate the path is to draw a line connecting the two balls (blue line below) and another line from the center of that line to the pocket (red line below). The cue ball's path will be nearly parallel to the red line (but usually hitting a little closer to the pocket).

CueTable Help



To barely miss the 4 ball the cue ball would have to come right out of the pocket itself (the wide line below):

CueTable Help



I'm not trying to contradict you, Billy, just showing how these diagrams can be misleading.

pj
chgo
 
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SJDinPHX said:
This exact shot has been floating around 1P.org for several days now. The majority of the seasoned players are 2 railing the 15.
Myself, I agree, you would have to put a gun to my head to KEEP me from shooting the 15, 2 rails. If I can't hit it good enough to give my opponent a problem, I don't deserve to win (and I ain't gonna scratch twice across either, Billy ;) )
My opponent is going to be shooting from on (or very close to) the rail, and I would be hoping he shoots at the 8 ball.

A 2-3 rail kick at the 8 would be a distant second choice for me.

Dick <---likes offensive, low risk shots.
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I stand corrected, the 15 ball two rail toward your pocket is a good shot, after I set it up I realized that it wasn't as thin of a hit that I first thought, givig you better controll of both the 15 and the cue ball. But in reference to the kick shot being a distant second I disagree, too many good things can happen for you shooting the kick.

Bill <----likes clearing your opponents side and improving your position shots.
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
It's often hard to tell with these diagrams showing such an unfamiliar view, but the actual path is about like this, not very close to the 4.

CueTable Help



If you can't set the shot up and shoot it, an easy way to estimate the path is to draw a line connecting the two balls (blue line below) and another line from the center of that line to the pocket (red line below). The cue ball's path will be nearly parallel to the red line (but usually hitting a little closer to the pocket).

CueTable Help



To barely miss the 4 ball the cue ball would have to come right out of the pocket itself (the wide line below):

CueTable Help



I'm not trying to contradict you, Billy, just showing how these diagrams can be misleading.

pj
chgo
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Patrick you are correct I misjudged the angle, but never the less the kick shot is still a strong shot from the position shown. The 15 ball two railer is also a good shot providing you can controll both the 15 and the cue ball. I really don't see much difference in terms of value in either shot, providing you have the skills to execute them both.
 
wincardona said:
I stand corrected, the 15 ball two rail toward your pocket is a good shot, after I set it up I realized that it wasn't as thin of a hit that I first thought, givig you better controll of both the 15 and the cue ball. But in reference to the kick shot being a distant second I disagree, too many good things can happen for you shooting the kick.

Bill <----likes clearing your opponents side and improving your position shots.
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this is why i suggested taking an intentional foul near my opponents pocket (post #19). mr. incardona, being the professional that he is, took it a step farther and play a 2 rail kick into the 8. both shots protect the soldiers on your side of the table.
 
Thecoats said:
Two rail the 15 into your hole and park the cue ball on the top rail between the first diamond and the top right hole. Go ahead and let your opponent shoot the long straigt in if they want.

-don
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Not bad at all I agree with you and Dick on that shot after I set it up.
 
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Neil said:
Very thin hit on the 5 with a little left masse shot. That will bring the cb to the rail the 8 is on and then back gently into the pack.
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Neil, I don't see you executing that shot the way you described it, you're too thin on the 5 ball to controll the cue ball , at least that's the way I see it.
 
wincardona said:
The 15 ball two railer is also a good shot providing you can controll both the 15 and the cue ball. I really don't see much difference in terms of value in either shot, providing you have the skills to execute them both.
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It's that proviso (in blue above) that makes me consider the 15 ball shot. I'm just not as good a kicker as you 1 pocket pros, but I can 2-rail the 15 near my pocket reliably enough.

The problem I have with the 15 ball shot is that (after trying it a few times) I don't think it's easy to get the cue ball back into the stack, and I don't think the 8 is such a tough shot with the cue ball on the head rail, so I'm in danger of my opponent getting the 8 and the cross corner shot on the 15 afterwards.

In the end I'm probably going to protect my apples by thinning the 5 in one direction or another (depending on exactly how the cue ball lies next to it) to get safe against the stack or near the foot rail. This looks to me like the most reliable shot - and in 1P keeping it simple often seems to be the best choice for non-pros like me.

pj
chgo
 
wincardona said:
I stand corrected, the 15 ball two rail toward your pocket is a good shot, after I set it up I realized that it wasn't as thin of a hit that I first thought, givig you better controll of both the 15 and the cue ball. But in reference to the kick shot being a distant second I disagree, too many good things can happen for you shooting the kick.

Bill <----likes clearing your opponents side and improving your position shots.
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Sweet, I was the first one to suggest the two rail kick and I am glad to see that Dick and Billy think it is a decent shot. I guess those 100000 hours of watching Accu-Stats one pocket tapes is starting to get into my thick skull:wink: :wink: . Great conversation everyone, Thanks.

-don
 
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